The Borg appear during the Vong War

[Admiral Breetai]

basically a week beforethe Yuzhan Vong invasion The Borg Queen from ST:FC finds a wormhole into SW space, the queen manages to assimilate a Chiss ship and decides to "extend" herself in this new galaxy with amazing new technologies

to this end she sends..24 Cubes and 48 Spheres with the intention of surveying the Galaxy and assimilating some small samples mostly freighters of various species when the Vong show up..the Borg upon learning of a vast armada of aliens with bioships coming from another galaxy full of diversity salivate. The Queen orders the collective to begin moving into the Galaxy with the intention of assimilating the vong and then eventually going after the alliance.

Borg are instructed to ignore..the alliance and only respond when fired on.

stipulations: events of voyager not canon/ ICS not canon/ No Time travel for the borg

hows this go? Can the Vong succeed and win? can the alliance? will they team up against the greater threat?

[Mith]

Why is Voyager no longer canon? That removes most of what we know about the Borg.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Why is Voyager no longer canon? That removes most of what we know about the Borg.

Voyager is, the episode "threshold" tends not to be considered such.

[Picard]

He means we take TNG Borg only.

[Mike DiCenso]

What about the ST:ENT Borg? The "Regeneration" episode is both a prequel and sequel to the events of Star Trek: First Contact.
-Mike

[Picard]

But we didn't see much from them. All we saw was two borg assimilating ship and a base without much trouble, upgrading said ship and getting blown up by tricks. That seems like TNG style to me, but it doesn't show much to contradict either TNG or Voyager.

[sonofccn]

How many ships are we talking about for the Vong and Alliance? I very vaguely recall that initially the Vong only had like a 1000 warships but will freely admit I could be barking up a tree on that. Once we know what we are working with we can make guesses as to its enough to take out 24 Cubes.

[Admiral Breetai]

But we didn't see much from them. All we saw was two borg assimilating ship and a base without much trouble, upgrading said ship and getting blown up by tricks. That seems like TNG style to me, but it doesn't show much to contradict either TNG or Voyager.

if you want to use Voyager be my guest but considering how badly jobbed out the borg got I just assumed it was better to leave them

[Mike DiCenso]

The Borg didn't get completely emasculated in VOY, they did get have millions of ships and that huge 1,200 km Unicomplex. We also go to see that a single 600 meter sphere ship in "Endgame" is still more than enough to take on eight Galaxy class starships, two Prometheus class, and several other ships in an 18 ship strong fleet.
-Mike

[Picard]

Actually, we saw only opening shots. And I don't remember any ships firing torpedoes, let alone Galaxies unleashing their torpedoes in rafale-mode. Then Voyager blew it up. So we don't know if it is enough to take on eight Galaxies in a protracted battle - we only know they wouldn't be able to blow it up in first 30 seconds.

[Mike DiCenso]

The those opening shots are seen here 6:54 onwards and at around 7:02 at least one torpedo is lobbed from the upper right by what looks like a Prometheus-class. So I count at minumum 6 phaser strikes and one torpedo, which should be more than enough to destroy or seriously damage even the most powerful Federation starships, but the Borg sphere takes them without even the slightest hint of damage, and the fleet got in at least 20 seconds of good firing time at it before Voyager pops it open with the transphasic torpedo. So that's a helluva lot of punishment for a relatively minor Borg ship to take.
-Mike

[Khas]

The Borg didn't get completely emasculated in VOY, they did get have millions of ships and that huge 1,200 km Unicomplex. We also go to see that a single 600 meter sphere ship in "Endgame" is still more than enough to take on eight Galaxy class starships, two Prometheus class, and several other ships in an 18 ship strong fleet.
-Mike

Not to mention Unimatrix One had a population of trillions, as Tuvok stated in "Dark Frontier".

And it seems to me that the Borg weren't emasculated so much as they were overused. The Borg appeared nineteen times in VOY, as opposed to TNG's six.

[User1469]

How many ships are we talking about for the Vong and Alliance? I very vaguely recall that initially the Vong only had like a 1000 warships but will freely admit I could be barking up a tree on that. Once we know what we are working with we can make guesses as to its enough to take out 24 Cubes.

More like 10000+.
The Battle of Coruscant has at least those numbers just for that battle. Not too mention whatever they had guarding and patrolling the areas of space they already conquered. Now the war was only from ABY 24 to ABY 29. And they took Coruscant in ABY 27.

Considering their own tremendous losses up to that point. They have lots of ships. And impressive ship building speeds.

Garm Bel Iblis states they had "tens of thousands of ships" which doesn't include the 600+ transports they used to ram the planetary shields. Or the amount of coralskippers involved. So they had alot more then 1000 warships when they first entered.

[sonofccn]

More like 10000+.
The Battle of Coruscant has at least those numbers just for that battle. Not too mention whatever they had guarding and patrolling the areas of space they already conquered.

Well thats definately in the right direction, I don't suppose we have a break down of what these ships were. Frigates/destroyers/battleships etc.

Now the war was only from ABY 24 to ABY 29. And they took Coruscant in ABY 27.

So two to three years after first entering the Galaxy, roughly halfway through the war.

Considering their own tremendous losses up to that point.

What sort of losses? Can you elaborate?

They have lots of ships. And impressive ship building speeds.

How impressive? Details?

Garm Bel Iblis states they had "tens of thousands of ships"

For the battle for Coruscant I presume? Full quote?

which doesn't include the 600+ transports they used to ram the planetary shields. Or the amount of coralskippers involved

Were they not deployed yet?

So they had alot more then 1000 warships when they first entered.

Quite possibly. They'll need them.

[User1469]

No idea, it's not specific.
IIRC correctly what they had on hand was about 5000 cap ships in the Corucsant defense fleet. And they were badly outnumbered.

The reason I would say 10,000+ capships for the Vong fleet is simple. If Garm's fleet is in the 5000 range, then 600+ Vong warships would be pitifully outmatched. And to get into the 10,000 range that limits about 12 fighters per ship. Most Vong ships come with at least 3 squadrons of Coralskippers. Others have 4-8 squadrons.

Consider that after Coruscant, after burning the Yevatha off the galaxy, attacking Hapes, the Empire and their own attacks against the Republic they burned through and estimated
1/3 of their starting personnel and ships. With those losses, they moved a bit moved cautiously especially after Warmaster Lah's death. Nas Choke new that they didn't need to waste lives and ships pointlessly. Especially since they were fighting the galaxy on every front. (Except for minor stuff with the Chiss) they destroyed a Yevetha fleet numbering in the "thousands of thrustships" nearly wiped out the Ssi-ruuk, was fighting with Hapes, the splintered New Republic, Thrawn's little Empire of the Hand, The Imperial Remnant, Corporate Sector, the Hutts (who still managed to be a power) and every other faction.

They still had thousands of ships to send to Dac , and enough to protect Coruscant in their Final Battle. Not to mention they still had fleets EVERYWHERE. That means they either had some really impressive ship building capabilities or they had extremely massive numbers when they entered the galaxy.

Miid Ro'iks likely are bigger the Borg Cubes. RAMMING SPEED. They shouldn't have much problem with 24 Borg Cubes.