The nature of Star Trek Shields

[Mith]

So, I was thinking the other day about how ST shields act--that they always seem to act as if they have an x amount of hit points before failing. And yet the energy output of the reactors should be the same. Well, at first I thought that maybe the shield generators overheated or needed to cool down--hence the decreasing ability of the shields.

But...why not have multiple shield generators that you switch back and forth to? And the shield generators are rarely mentioned as having failed or take damage. Therefore, any battle with a shield would be about breaking through the shield before it has time to recharge--yet it's been clearly established that once shields are down, it can be difficult to get them back up again.

An example is form Relics; the Enterprise D clearly has enough power to protect themselves and to easily supply that power to the shields, yet the shields are drained all the same in the end...why?

I think it's possible that the shields aren't downed because it works on some sort of battery or something--but on the idea that perhaps the shield itself is difficult to maintain under mounting stress. As in, it's a sort of balance contest. For example, your shield runs normally on 50 TWs to keep it balanced and strong. However, a torpedo strikes it and suddenly the shield begins to lose cohesion because of the new energy being introduced. The shield emitters then struggle to try and maintain the balance by using up more power from the ship to try and steady the shield. Eventually however, the shield is overwhelmed because there is only so much energy and the strain put on the emitters and generators to maintain it. Hence, shield failure can result in a lack of shield for some time.

This could also explain Relics in a similar way; while the output of the star was not nearly enough to be the same level as a photon torpedo on the shields, it stressed the system because of the duration of the attack; the constant bombardment made holding the shield together so difficult that the system could no longer manage and would simply fail.

This would mean that metaphasic shielding would basically be an alternate configuration of the shield and possible the hardware to allow for greater constant lower level bombardment. It would also explain the concept behind 'regenerative shielding'. It isn't anything really different other than that perhaps the new configuration would make it easier to stabilize compared to normal shielding--hence the field is in a way, regenerating itself.

It would explain how Geordie could have a program that could be adapted to the Enterprise D during Descent; it was simply a new way of configuring the shield generators to project a more stable and longer lasting shield bubble, rather than say an entirely new shield generator or a special piece of hardware.

EDIT:

...Fucking hell, why is it I post always in the wrong forum?!

[Picard]

http://picard578.blogspot.com/2010/08/f ... ields.html

Might help.

[User1626]

It wouldn't make much sense to have backup shield-generators, since it would make more sense to just run them all at once and have more stopping-power.
The generators can stop a certain amount indefinitely, but obviously they can only stop so much before they become damaged rather than the ship, and so once they're gone then they need to be repaired.
Shield-generators also must have some size and mass-consideration, since otherwise you could just have a planetary-shield generator and p0wer-supply, and no one could touch you; but you couldn't go anywhere fast.
So when designing a ship, the engineers have to take factors into account like size, mass, power-consumption, and integrate it accordingly on advice from officers with experience in ship-design and various uses.
Remember that the Star Trek ships are mostly exploratory research-vessels, not warships; while they were fitted with weapons, none of these weapons carried anywhere near the power of the engines. The first actual warship we saw was the Defiant, and we saw what that did: i.e. it wasn't that fast, wasn't very comfortable or very roomy, but it could do some very nasty things, and its shields and armor were second to none.
So it's all a matter of function, and Star Trek isn't about war except when necessary.

[Mike DiCenso]

Moved to the Trek/Wars forum.
-Mike

[Mith]

http://picard578.blogspot.com/2010/08/f ... ields.html

Might help.

Hmm, this bit:

Problem is with photon torpedoes - bleedthrought damage from "photons" should be severe if my theory is right, but it rarely seems to be greater than that of phasers. However, nature of shields might have something with that.

In regards to your frequency theory. Wouldn't it be possible to have a second layer of shielding beneath a first layer, so the second layer can catch what the first one would miss? Sort of like a safety net.

Of course, that would mean that all weapons would need to be able to match both frequencies in order to get through, but if a phaser beam could theoretically be adjusted so that it shifts its frequency when fired so that it passes through both layers--then it would work.

It would also make more sense tactically. Ie, so when Picard orders that they try and match the enemy ship's frequency, he isn't risking the Enterprise's own safety since logically that would expose his own ship. But if the frequency of a phaser can be adjusted so that it passes through your shield and then changes to the frequency it would need to pass through the enemy's layers, it would make sense.

[User1626]

http://picard578.blogspot.com/2010/08/f ... ields.html

Might help.

Hmm, this bit:

Problem is with photon torpedoes - bleedthrought damage from "photons" should be severe if my theory is right, but it rarely seems to be greater than that of phasers. However, nature of shields might have something with that.

In regards to your frequency theory. Wouldn't it be possible to have a second layer of shielding beneath a first layer, so the second layer can catch what the first one would miss? Sort of like a safety net.

Of course, that would mean that all weapons would need to be able to match both frequencies in order to get through, but if a phaser beam could theoretically be adjusted so that it shifts its frequency when fired so that it passes through both layers--then it would work.

Starfleet has 2 kinds of shields: deflectors and force-fields. Deflectors, as their name implies, deflect attacks away from the ship into space; meanwhile force-fields absorb whatever gets through the deflectors.
In The TMP novelization, for example, when the V'ger torpedo hits the Enterprise, Scotty notices the power-levels getting dangerously low, and so he diverts power from the force-fields to the deflectors; this results in some of the blast getting through, but it saves the Enterprise.

Meanwhile, multi-phasic shielding prevents any frequency from getting through, since it seems to combine both phases of the frequency.

[Picard]

In regards to your frequency theory. Wouldn't it be possible to have a second layer of shielding beneath a first layer, so the second layer can catch what the first one would miss? Sort of like a safety net.

Of course, that would mean that all weapons would need to be able to match both frequencies in order to get through, but if a phaser beam could theoretically be adjusted so that it shifts its frequency when fired so that it passes through both layers--then it would work.

It would also make more sense tactically. Ie, so when Picard orders that they try and match the enemy ship's frequency, he isn't risking the Enterprise's own safety since logically that would expose his own ship. But if the frequency of a phaser can be adjusted so that it passes through your shield and then changes to the frequency it would need to pass through the enemy's layers, it would make sense.

Interesting theory. But I don't remember that we ever hear about "one layer failling". Shields are either at percentages, or completely down. It's never like "layer one at 25%, layer two at 50%".

[Mith]

In regards to your frequency theory. Wouldn't it be possible to have a second layer of shielding beneath a first layer, so the second layer can catch what the first one would miss? Sort of like a safety net.

Of course, that would mean that all weapons would need to be able to match both frequencies in order to get through, but if a phaser beam could theoretically be adjusted so that it shifts its frequency when fired so that it passes through both layers--then it would work.

It would also make more sense tactically. Ie, so when Picard orders that they try and match the enemy ship's frequency, he isn't risking the Enterprise's own safety since logically that would expose his own ship. But if the frequency of a phaser can be adjusted so that it passes through your shield and then changes to the frequency it would need to pass through the enemy's layers, it would make sense.

Interesting theory. But I don't remember that we ever hear about "one layer failling". Shields are either at percentages, or completely down. It's never like "layer one at 25%, layer two at 50%".

Don't think of them as separate shield layers, so much as two sides to the same shield. You might even say that it could still be one shield, but not all the graviton particles are working off the same frequency. It would be a layer only on the principal of them being on different frequencies. If that makes any sense.

It would make trying to guess someone's frequency more challenging too, since you couldn't just monitor the frequency from their weapons, since the frequency would be different from both sides of the shield.

[Mike DiCenso]

In regards to your frequency theory. Wouldn't it be possible to have a second layer of shielding beneath a first layer, so the second layer can catch what the first one would miss? Sort of like a safety net.

Of course, that would mean that all weapons would need to be able to match both frequencies in order to get through, but if a phaser beam could theoretically be adjusted so that it shifts its frequency when fired so that it passes through both layers--then it would work.

It would also make more sense tactically. Ie, so when Picard orders that they try and match the enemy ship's frequency, he isn't risking the Enterprise's own safety since logically that would expose his own ship. But if the frequency of a phaser can be adjusted so that it passes through your shield and then changes to the frequency it would need to pass through the enemy's layers, it would make sense.

Interesting theory. But I don't remember that we ever hear about "one layer failling". Shields are either at percentages, or completely down. It's never like "layer one at 25%, layer two at 50%".

Rewatch TOS, early TNG, and ST:Nemesis. In all cases the shields collapse on one side or the other, but leave 3 or more shield facings still intact.

For example "Sheild number three collapsing, shields number four weakening, but holding.".

Now it may be that some weapons are designed to surround and take out all shields at the same time, like V'Ger's plasmsa weapon, or the Borg tractor weapon.
-Mike

[Praeothmin]

Yes, ST has multiple shields, but only one facing each direction, such as in NEM when the dorsal shield sollapsed.
They never mention multiple layers of shields...
You even see it on the display, when the shield is gone, it is gone, there isn't a second layer in its place, and they never say things like:
"Primary shield is gone, but secondary shield is holding."

[Mith]

Again, we don't have to have exactly different layers so much as parts of the same shield working on two different frequencies.

[Praeothmin]

Displays of shield failures don't support the two layers of shield theory...
When one shield fails, we see an entire arc of ship losing protection...

[Admiral Breetai]

Displays of shield failures don't support the two layers of shield theory...
When one shield fails, we see an entire arc of ship losing protection...

depends on the shield no?

[Mith]

Displays of shield failures don't support the two layers of shield theory...
When one shield fails, we see an entire arc of ship losing protection...

Um...not to nitpick, but there look like there are two layers there.

Again, I'm not really suggesting two different shields layering over each other. I'm suggesting one shield with the top half at x frequency and the bottom half at y frequency. They would both lose combat effectiveness at the same time.

[User1626]

Displays of shield failures don't support the two layers of shield theory...
When one shield fails, we see an entire arc of ship losing protection...

Um...not to nitpick, but there look like there are two layers there.

The inner one is the ship's primary force-field, the outer is the deflector-shields which emanate from generators around the ship's perimeter.
Again, the deflectors deflect energy away from the ship into space, while the force-field absorb it directly.

As an analogy, the deflector would be steel-plated armor, while the force-field would be padding inside it: i.e. the plating would deflect a weapon, while the padding would help absorb the energy that gets through
Obviously, the more you deflect, the less you need to absorb; that's why in TMP, Scotty diverts power from the force-field to the deflectors against V'ger's torpedo, since there isn't enough power for both. This saves the ship, by deflecting more energy, and absorbing less; and some of the energy gets through and hits Chekov in the forearm, but that's all.