What happens if an FTL weapon hits a ship at hyperdrive?

[User1610]

We know that hyperdriven ships aren't invulnerable, since they can hit stars and supenovas etc. Also, ships can't go more than 20,000C at hyperdrive in the G-canon, meanwhile phasers can go a lot faster than that.

Hyperdrive apparently works by shifting the ship's mass to tachyonic matter.
Normally this makes the ship invulnerable to SW weapons, since their weapons are STL. However that won't be the case against Federation weaponry. Also some starships are faster than hyperdriven ships, so hyperdrive wouldn't be an advantage in combat.
Finally, federation sensors can detect warp-signatures of fast-moving ships, so it's not like they could just pop out of nowhere like they claim. Instead, they'd just be intercepted and fired upon while in hyperspace, preferably with anti-tachyon beams.... boom.

[Lucky]

We know that hyperdriven ships aren't invulnerable, since they can hit stars and supenovas etc. Also, ships can't go more than 20,000C at hyperdrive in the G-canon, meanwhile phasers can go a lot faster than that.

Hyperdrive apparently works by shifting the ship's mass to tachyonic matter.
Normally this makes the ship invulnerable to SW weapons, since their weapons are STL. However that won't be the case against Federation weaponry. Also some starships are faster than hyperdriven ships, so hyperdrive wouldn't be an advantage in combat.
Finally, federation sensors can detect warp-signatures of fast-moving ships, so it's not like they could just pop out of nowhere like they claim. Instead, they'd just be intercepted and fired upon while in hyperspace, preferably with anti-tachyon beams.... boom.

How did you come to the conclusion that the max hyper-drive speed was 20,000C?

What makes you think hyper-space is anything like normal space?

[Lucky]

We know that hyperdriven ships aren't invulnerable, since they can hit stars and supenovas etc. Also, ships can't go more than 20,000C at hyperdrive in the G-canon, meanwhile phasers can go a lot faster than that.

Hyperdrive apparently works by shifting the ship's mass to tachyonic matter.
Normally this makes the ship invulnerable to SW weapons, since their weapons are STL. However that won't be the case against Federation weaponry. Also some starships are faster than hyperdriven ships, so hyperdrive wouldn't be an advantage in combat.
Finally, federation sensors can detect warp-signatures of fast-moving ships, so it's not like they could just pop out of nowhere like they claim. Instead, they'd just be intercepted and fired upon while in hyperspace, preferably with anti-tachyon beams.... boom.

How did you come to the conclusion that the max hyper-drive speed was 20,000C?

What makes you think hyper-space is anything like normal space?

[Trinoya]

So if I get this post correctly you're asserting the following:

1. Ships in hyperspace are not invulnerable.
Yes, this is confirmed by Hansolo. However the nature of the vulnerability is in question. Most attribute it to the gravity 'shadow' of the object, and that it must be substantial to be of a threat.

2. Ships in hyperspace can not travel more than 20,000c according to G-canon
I'm curious as to where you plucked such a specific figure from, and I know of at least a dozen people on two boards who would be quite ready to dispute such a claim.

3. Phasers are faster than therefore can interact with ships moving through hyperspace
While phasers have been demonstrated to fire at FTL speeds on more than one occasion (more like several dozen, if not at least a hundred occasions) I find it dubious at best to assert that they can interact with something in hyperspace, especially as we have no evidence to this capability, and hyperspace seems to exist on another plane, rather than in real space.

4. Some ships are faster than hyperspace driven ships and therefore hyperdrive wouldn't be an advantage in combat.
We have seen ships that are faster than hyperspace capable ships (The borg being the most notable example of this, although there are others). However I'm curious as to how you can make the claim that hyperspace wouldn't be of an advantage when you yourself state that only some ships are faster.

5. You assert because federation sensors can detect warp signatures of FTL ships that they can detect hyperspace ships, giving them time to respond.
The relative insane federation subspace sensor is certainly able to be argued to be capable of detection of pretty much anything, but at the end of the day it has no basis for comparison as hyperspace is most likely not within our dimension. What we do know is that they are capable of FTL processing and data processing, allowing it to detect and view the displacement of gases for ships attempting to perform FTL tactics (such as the picard maneuver). That is the extend of the proven capability of the sensors in regards to something 'popping up' out of nowhere. While it may allow them to react first to a stardestroyer showing up, it would not allow them to dictate where it shows up.


The short of it: You'll require substantially more evidence to back up your claims. Don't take this as an attack, it isn't. It's just a suggestion that you get your ducks in a row and present how you reached these conclusions, rather than just posting your conclusions. Even sites like ST-V-SW.net assert a higher 'average' speed to hyperspace than the 'average' fast speed of war drive (11,000 c vs 9,000 c iirc) while asserting a higher warp speed (21,000 c) at 9.9 vs the fastest hyperspace speeds he deduced (16500c). These claims are highly in dispute based on the EU, and with the new clone wars series the verdict is still out (ironically, one of the few field TCW is helping the star wars side in is apparent speeds, although hyperspace lanes are still a major point of contention). Obtaining the associated evidence first will go a long way to validating your claims.

[Praeothmin]

Trinoya, you know you were talking to another KSW sockpuppet, don't you?
Proving his points is not in his habit, just so you know...

5. You assert because federation sensors can detect warp signatures of FTL ships that they can detect hyperspace ships, giving them time to respond.
The relative insane federation subspace sensor is certainly able to be argued to be capable of detection of pretty much anything, but at the end of the day it has no basis for comparison as hyperspace is most likely not within our dimension. What we do know is that they are capable of FTL processing and data processing, allowing it to detect and view the displacement of gases for ships attempting to perform FTL tactics (such as the picard maneuver). That is the extend of the proven capability of the sensors in regards to something 'popping up' out of nowhere. While it may allow them to react first to a stardestroyer showing up, it would not allow them to dictate where it shows up.

Since Federation sensors could not even detect what kind of ship was in the Borg transwarp conduit in "Endgame", nor were they capable of detecting ships in Transwarp, which is simply an improved Warp travel, then there is absolutely no reason for us to believe they could detect ships in Hyperspace...

[Trinoya]

Ah, see, I was completely unaware of that fact. Let me get some egg for my face here.



That said: I completely forgot about the End Game Example, indeed, it's another good demonstration, however, of preparing for the emergence of something, but having no clue who or what it is.

[User1611]

There's no proof that phasers couldn't zap a hyperdriven ship, while the fact that stars and nearby subernova can destoy them is adequate evidence that it can be affected by even natural phenomena, let alone those generated by Starfleet tech. In general, meanwhile, tachyonic matter is easily affected by Starfleet weapons, shields, tractor-beams etc.

As for detecting ships at transwarp: that's not hyperdrive, it's far it's far faster; meanwhile the sensors can easily detect anything moving at 20K c. particularly tachyonic matter.

Regarding combat, likewise, it's easy to propel any starship to very high warp speeds for short distances; it's only long distances that take a toll on the engines. In TOS, warp 8 was fast for long distances, but in BoT they go to warp 9 in that emergency of eveading the plasma weapon. In contrast, we've never seen EU "short jumps" in the G-canon, particularly when they would have been most useful to saving the Rebel ships; in ANH, for example, Han has to wait for the nav-computer before he can go to hyperdrive; meanwhile in RotJ they don't seem able to go to hyperdrive at all in order once they realize they're ina trap.

Anyhow this is a vital question, since otherwise warsies will just claim that hyperdrive allows ships to go wherever they want without interception including the Death Star popping up at Earth's door-- which is just like saying it's magic. However I don't believe for a second that they can have a trillion tons of tachyons flying around at warp-9+ speeds, without having any way for starfleet to detect or stop it... it's just insane!

[Praeothmin]

There's no proof that phasers couldn't zap a hyperdriven ship

There's no proof it could.
You made the claim, you can back it up with some hard evidence once your Ban is lifted, KSW...

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

There's no proof that phasers couldn't zap a hyperdriven ship, while the fact that stars and nearby subernova can destoy them is adequate evidence that it can be affected by even natural phenomena, let alone those generated by Starfleet tech. In general, meanwhile, tachyonic matter is easily affected by Starfleet weapons, shields, tractor-beams etc.

Trek would not need phasers to kill a SW ship in hyperspace as they can easily create gravity fields powerful enough to cause singularities as such the mass shadow of such a singularity would do the job better than phasers.

[Praeothmin]

There's no proof that phasers couldn't zap a hyperdriven ship, while the fact that stars and nearby subernova can destoy them is adequate evidence that it can be affected by even natural phenomena, let alone those generated by Starfleet tech. In general, meanwhile, tachyonic matter is easily affected by Starfleet weapons, shields, tractor-beams etc.

Trek would not need phasers to kill a SW ship in hyperspace as they can easily create gravity fields powerful enough to cause singularities as such the mass shadow of such a singularity would do the job better than phasers.

In order to do that, they would first need to know where the Hyperspace lane is, or where the ship is located in Hyperspace.
Since they can't detect ships in Hyperspace, then they can only "sabotage" Hyperspace lanes they know about...

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

There's no proof that phasers couldn't zap a hyperdriven ship, while the fact that stars and nearby subernova can destoy them is adequate evidence that it can be affected by even natural phenomena, let alone those generated by Starfleet tech. In general, meanwhile, tachyonic matter is easily affected by Starfleet weapons, shields, tractor-beams etc.

Trek would not need phasers to kill a SW ship in hyperspace as they can easily create gravity fields powerful enough to cause singularities as such the mass shadow of such a singularity would do the job better than phasers.

In order to do that, they would first need to know where the Hyperspace lane is, or where the ship is located in Hyperspace.
Since they can't detect ships in Hyperspace, then they can only "sabotage" Hyperspace lanes they know about...

I am pretty sure they could figure out that a lane existed between important planets ect, most i have seen start and finish in pretty close orbit of such planets.

And why cant they detect ships in hyperspace as they can detect ships in transwarp and slipstream ect as well as scan subspace, in fact scanning unusual shit is pretty much one of their defining qualities being about exploration and discovery ect.

[Praeothmin]

Really, Kor?
They can detect ships in Transwarp, and not just ships that exit from Transwarp?
And you have evidence to back this up?

I am pretty sure they could figure out that a lane existed between important planets ect, most i have seen start and finish in pretty close orbit of such planets.

Space is actually pretty big, you know, so while they could "mine" a planet's surrounding space, an entire Hyperspace lane may be different...

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Really, Kor?
They can detect ships in Transwarp, and not just ships that exit from Transwarp?
And you have evidence to back this up?

During VOY: "Dark Frontier" they knew a ship was going to appear long before it exited the federation also knew a ship was incoming long before it exited in VOY: Endgame.

They were able to track (and eventually follow) a ship at "Quantum slipstream", a form of transwarp developed by Species 116 (VOY: "Hope and Fear").

[Picard]

which is simply an improved Warp travel,

Wrong. "Transwarp" means "faster than warp". That is just like "supercavitational torpedo" - it says nothing about what engine torpedo uses, it is simply generic term that says torpedo is capable of achieving certain speeds, which happen to be supercavitational. Thus, "supercavitational torpedo".

[Praeothmin]

Really, Kor?
They can detect ships in Transwarp, and not just ships that exit from Transwarp?
And you have evidence to back this up?

During VOY: "Dark Frontier" they knew a ship was going to appear long before it exited the federation also knew a ship was incoming long before it exited in VOY: Endgame.

They were able to track (and eventually follow) a ship at "Quantum slipstream", a form of transwarp developed by Species 116 (VOY: "Hope and Fear").

Both in Dark Frontier and in Endgame, they detected the Transwarp conduit's aperture, not the trevelling ship, and detected that something must be coming out of it, but they didn't know where the ship was located exactly in the conduit, they couldn't follow its progression.
This is akin to when the DS9 wormhole was about to open, DS9 could detect it, but it din't know what was coming out, or how many...

As for Hope and Fear, this was not Transwarp, and seemed to operate on a different type of propulsion, but you have 1 example of ST ships being able to track ships in Hyperdrive-like FTL against many examples where they can't...