The Galactic Empire vs The Cardassian Union

[Admiral Breetai]

The Dark lord of the sith finds a wormhole towards the edge of the inner colonies and after dispatching some probes learns of an entirely new Galaxy he begins to mobilize forces to begin invading the Galaxy and sends out Tarkin and ozzel (piet's there too) with a vanguard force to establish a beach head at the other side.

The Cardassians have just abandoned bajor and are in no condition to mount an offensive against the enemy..but hold up and fortify their territory..Imperial outposts are built at the edge of Cardassian space..( close to the Romulan border in that region)

The Romulans notice it and decide to fuck with both sides and begin raiding territory on both sides..the Federation refuses to get involved for now and the Klingons laugh at the Cardassians plight..so every major power is staying neutral

in five years the Empire launches a full scale invasion of Cardassian space the spoonheads have the same amount of time to build up

this takes place before the Rebellion and we'll say the Dominions late to the party because the borg decided to mess with them-The Romulans will get involved but more out of the intent of using what ever is left of the Cardassians as a vassal state to play cold war tactics with the Federation so..within say four years they will get involved in the War The Ferengi are nominal trade allies with the empire and the empire can hire marauders but they aren't allowed to buy tech

how do things go?

[Praeothmin]

Well, what forces does the Empire commit to the Cardassian territories?
Because if it's just 10 ISDs, then the Empire loses all ships within 1 month, max...

Since no one is attacking Cardassia, they can commit all their forces into the fray, which means hundreds of ships, minimum...

[Admiral Breetai]

well since the rebels wont be around for awhile we'll say they get to send a fleet about the same size as the one in empire strikes back...just to build their little bases and stuff and to begin setting up a resource base there until the rebs pop up if it becomes too much of an issue..they can send as many as they can afford

[Nowhereman10]

Ozzel will slow things down a bit, I think. He might be just competent enough to get the baseline work of establishing small bases and doing star charting grunt work, but when it comes down to actual combat and strategic planning, he'll be more of a liability than an asset.

Piett, on the other hand, is capable, if somewhat unimaginative as a military leader. Once Ozzel is out of the way (presumably Vader and the Emperor won't tolerate setbacks for very long), the Empire will make better headway.

As for the Ferengi, even during the Dominion War there was little to suggest that they did any trading, much less anything with the Dominion other than maintaining neutrality. But if you want to force the issue, the big problem for the Cardassians and the Alpha Quadrant in general is if the Ferengi do something stupid like give the Empire starcharts with which they can make hyperlanes from. Once the Empire has high speed from their hyperdrives, they'll become a very serious threat, and can strike anywhere. Otherwise they remain mostly confined to the sector they originally started in, and can probably be confined there once the other Alpha and Beta Quadrant powers join in the fray.

[Admiral Breetai]

Ozzel will slow things down a bit, I think. He might be just competent enough to get the baseline work of establishing small bases and doing star charting grunt work, but when it comes down to actual combat and strategic planning, he'll be more of a liability than an asset.]

was he really that bad? he made a very bad mistake but other wise I don't know anything about the guy

Piett, on the other hand, is capable, if somewhat unimaginative as a military leader. Once Ozzel is out of the way (presumably Vader and the Emperor won't tolerate setbacks for very long), the Empire will make better headway.

it's Tarkin's show so it's up to how ever long it takes him to get fed up with Ozzel before Piet gets put in command

As for the Ferengi, even during the Dominion War there was little to suggest that they did any trading, much less anything with the Dominion other than maintaining neutrality.

I'm not sure the Empire is as massive a threat as the Dominion is hence why I had them in as trading partners I can buy they're participation for easy profit..

Once the Empire has high speed from their hyperdrives, they'll become a very serious threat, and can strike anywhere.

wouldn't decent planetary defense systems and space stations be capable of holding invasions off until back up arrives?

Otherwise they remain mostly confined to the sector they originally started in, and can probably be confined there once the other Alpha and Beta Quadrant powers join in the fray.

theres also the Romulans playing politics to consider how this would affect things?

[Nowhereman10]

was he really that bad? he made a very bad mistake but other wise I don't know anything about the guy

Given how the guy is portrayed in the movies and the EU, you have to wonder how he got as far as being an admiral in the first place.

it's Tarkin's show so it's up to how ever long it takes him to get fed up with Ozzel before Piet gets put in command

Tarkin does not make any sense here given that we see in ROTS that he is in charge of the Death Star project about 20 years prior to ANH, and pulling him from that project to go mess around in this unknown and hostile new galaxy might have significant repercussions. Also Tarkin can't be everywhere and micromanging everthing.

I'm not sure the Empire is as massive a threat as the Dominion is hence why I had them in as trading partners I can buy they're participation for easy profit..

The Ferengi would have to get something pretty good, other than just money in this deal, and the Empire will have to be willing to supply.

theres also the Romulans playing politics to consider how this would affect things?

The Romulans may just sit this one out, or they might do as they did to attempt to preempt the Dominion threat by destroying the wormhole, or a strike at the Empire's key production centers. By sitting it out, they can let everyone else waste resources, lose ships, and generally be in a weaked postion for which they later can capitalize on.

[Lucky]

Why would getting maps from any trek power automatically give the Empire hyper lanes?

[Picard]

It depends on how hyperdrive works. If it is like warp drive, dependant on gravitational influence etc. then it will give Empire advantage of not having to chart systems. And I think "hyperlanes" are nothing more than just areas of space hyperdrive is faster in - much faster, so much that it can probably mean difference between victory and defeat. If it is so, then it is not unlike warp drive, so we have UFP & Co. and GE on equal footing in FTL area.

This being Cardassian Union makes things easier for the Empire, since newest Cardassian ships are generally weaker than their Federation counterparts, maybe even by factor of 2-3, so the Empire has to deal with loads of Miranda- and maybe Excelsior- equivalent starships at worst. On the other hand, Cardassians might be superior to the Federation in ground fighting (althought we do not have much info on it). But if Federation, Klingons and maybe Romulans enter fray, Empire will have to deal with 3 most prominent powers of Alpha Quadrant, in adittion to Cardassians (and maybe Breen, if they decide to join up).

However, Ferengi might be a problem, trading technology and weapons to the Empire - matter/antimatter power plants and photon torpedoes can enable the Empire to conquer Cardassian union, provided that they can build them, and not just use what Ferengi gave them . Plus, they will need lot of infrastructure they didn't need before (antimatter production plants etc.) so I don't see such scenario as happening within first few years after they acquire technology.

So, if Empire decides to invade outright, it will get kicked in ass. If it waits to integrate new technologies, gather info etc., it might win or force stalemate.

[User1468]

Hyperlanes are zones where hyperspace is possible, due to the lack of mass shadows. While i think starcharts might not be enough, the Empire has enough cannon fodder to test Hyperlanes the good old-fashioned way

[Praeothmin]

Hyperlanes are zones where hyperspace is possible, due to the lack of mass shadows. While i think starcharts might not be enough, the Empire has enough cannon fodder to test Hyperlanes the good old-fashioned way

This is an assumption that always bothered me:

the Empire has enough cannon fodder to test Hyperlanes the good old-fashioned way

Really?
They really have so many soldiers and pilots and vessels that they can thrown them out an airlocke while plotting Hyperlanes?
Then why the heck did the Empire simply not create a bazillion new ISD and Tie fighters and send them all over the Galaxy in the search for the Rebels?
Why did it not have 1000 ISD at Endor for the trap?
Why did they not built 2 DSs at the same time?

I truly hate when people assume that the Empire has unlimited ressources to pour in military spendings when we have ample examples showing they do not...
A RL analogy would be the war against Iraq by the US.
While the US had the bigger and better equipped forces, this war cost them so much, they could not wage another war like it atm for lack of ressources...

[Nowhereman10]

*sigh* Another no-limits fallacy. I mean, wasn't the Galactic Republic going bankrupt because of the Clone Wars? Why would the Empire do so much better?

[User1468]

I was saying that a starchart could give them a rough idea of what could be used as a hyperlane; potential lanes would be tested by droid-piloted craft.

[Nowhereman10]

That presumes that the data shows what it necessary for them to do that in the first place. But even assuming that is the case, we know from the EU that it still takes centuries to chart out a large hyperlane route. Years, maybe longer before the Empire gets a hyperlane charted that is useable on a strategic level in the Trek Milky Way galaxy.

[Admiral Breetai]

wouldn't probe droids drastically reduce the amount of time it takes to scout a proper hyperlane?

how much of a tactical weakness would this be?

[Mike DiCenso]

It would certainly help, but it still took years of searching after the Battle of Yavin for the Imperial probe droids to find the Rebel base on Hoth. I see that charting a new hyperlane in a totally alien and potentially hostile galaxy to take far longer considering all the variables that have to be dealt with where hyperspace travel is concerned.

Hyperlanes are a major strategic weakness for the Empire, as we saw it was for the Galactic Republic during the Clone Wars. Once the Cardassians and other Alpha Quadrant powers catch onto this, they'll blockade those routes, probably placing ships and cloaked mines to prevent the hyperlane from being used. Furthermore, the Empire cannot just simply make due with one route, anymore than a large country like the U.S. or Austrailia can make due with a single transcontinental railroad. The Empire will need several such routes that go all throughout the quadrant to have any meaningful strategic value.
-Mike