5 Venators vs 2 excelsiors and 1 Ambassador

[Admiral Breetai]

fight takes place inside the briar patch Admiral James T Kirk aboard the Ambassador is commanding the Fed fleet (this will have the latest weapons and shield and power upgrades ) Wilhuff Tarkin commanders the Republic forces

a pack of 12 Defiant class starships will arrive as back up in 1 hour and Tarkin will get 3 More Venators plus a 4 Corellian class gunboats as back up at the same time

hows this going to go?

[sonofccn]

Kirk wins, likely without firing a shot by ahem..."convincing" a female Imperial to betray her family and friends and causing all droids/super computers within a half light year radius of his aura to self-destruct from illogic. :)

Seriously through I say Tarkin will take the first round losing two maybe three vessels* in defeating the Federation task force. If he sticks around until the Defiants arrive however, which will outnumber him 2 to 1 in actual warships and are more powerful than the Excelsiors, he'll lose.

* I'm assuming this is a full on battle with no quarter asked or given with ships fighting to thier last breath and I'm assume Kirk will deliberatly self-destruct his ship to try and take an enemy vessel with him, likely Tarkin's. Even in defeat Kirk always wins. Its in the bylaws. ;-)

[User1469]

I'll stick with reasonable calcs.

Tarkin's fleet can win. But if he lasts until the Defiants it could turn into a loss. A loss that would leave the Feddie fleet decimated, but would likely leave the Imp fleet dead.

[Praeothmin]

Going by RotS and TCW aiming capabilities of Venators, and their displayed Firepower, I say the Ambassador and 2 Excelsiors win...
They can maneuver a lot more than any Venator can, and the Venator gunners have trouble hitting a 4.8km long by 800 meters wide (the Malevolence) while said behemoth is getting away from them in a straight line...
The very rare hits that will connect will not be too damaging, and the Photon Torpedoes that do connect will hurt the Republic forces greatly...
I say at the end, only Kirk and his Ambassador remain, but the Republic force is decimated...

And if it should remain, when the 12 Defiants arrive, then it's time to sing the Curbstomp Song... :)

[Trinoya]

This battle is a toss up. There is a lot of fighter craft to deal with from 5 venators, and while they won't be effective, they will harass, and exploit. I'd say the the ambassador is the ship left 'standing' if you could call it that, so win in Treks Corner. A lot of that has to do with the commanders chosen as well. Tarkin is one of the most idiotic people in the history of star wars. I'm convinced palpy built the first death star just to kill the guy.

I don't really understand the need to bring a full 'defiant curbstomp' at the end of this, the fight should be over long before then.

[Admiral Breetai]

another factor to consider is the area...this isn't just a space battle its an obstacle course where one miss fire can cost kirk his entire fleet just as much as it can tarkins

[Picard]

If we take canon firepower for both, and Amb/Exc being TNG or DS9 era ships, Venators lose. Venator's shields should not have capacity above 100-200 megatons, and photon torpedoes are 200 megatons minimum (from "Rise").

[StarWarsStarTrek]

You guys know what I'm going to say. MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Seriously though, 10^24 watts for the win.

[Picard]

10e14 watts is more like it.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

10e14 watts is more like it.

Problems:

1. The ROTS ICS already explained this; hypermatter is fluidy like. Ha.
2. Fuel =/= fuel being used as reactants in the reactor.
3. The scene is non canon. It was cut from the film, and contradicts the final version of the film, since Obi Wan and Anakin are not wet when they appear later.
4. You didn't really use this to calculate anything, and your power output section did not use this information at all.
5. As for your power output section, how did you calculate it? The blue glow thing would have been from waste; you don't know how efficient the engines are, so your calculations are based on a whim. You also don't know how high the engines would be on; obviously they wouldn't be on high, being near so many friendly people, turning them on high would be dangerous.

[Admiral Breetai]

hey so..that hypermatter stuff and what have you backed up by the movies it is?

trinoya: Tarkin wasn't stupid just arrogant he made a terrible judgement call but other then that he came off better then Ozzle and pretty much every other commander minus Piet

[Picard]

10e14 watts is more like it.

Problems:

1. The ROTS ICS already explained this; hypermatter is fluidy like. Ha.
2. Fuel =/= fuel being used as reactants in the reactor.
3. The scene is non canon. It was cut from the film, and contradicts the final version of the film, since Obi Wan and Anakin are not wet when they appear later.
4. You didn't really use this to calculate anything, and your power output section did not use this information at all.
5. As for your power output section, how did you calculate it? The blue glow thing would have been from waste; you don't know how efficient the engines are, so your calculations are based on a whim. You also don't know how high the engines would be on; obviously they wouldn't be on high, being near so many friendly people, turning them on high would be dangerous.

Problems with problems:
1) Hypermatter is not canon. It never was, and never will be, unless Lucas changes his mind.
2) Then for what? Star Wars ships use fusion. Star wars ground vehicles also probably use fusion, since they have fusion reactors small enough to be carried in backpack. So why use 10 different fuels when only one will make it? That will be analogous to nuclear submarines carrying timber, coal and oil.
3) The scene is cut, yes. But it is only thing we do have about fuel, althought irrelevant in regards to power production.
4) True. I was simply trying to determine what kind of fuel they use.
5) Given that ships are rising from ground, and that it is enough to propel them to orbit... it is also in line with firepower calculations, so it stands.

[Mith]

The Venators are at a massive, massive disadvantage.

1) Inferior range. ST ships can engage at hundreds of thousands of kms away and typically engage in hundreds to thousands of kms.

2) Inferior accuracy. Venators prefer the 'spray and pray' tactic. That may work for their setting, but against an enemy that could easily hit a Venator farther than any gunner could ever hope to see, that's going to be a problem.

3) Inferior firepower design. Beaten to death here, but SW firepower is so inferior that not even using late TOS and inbetween series Ambassador is going to even the field. Maybe if these were 22nd century ships, it'd be more interesting but 23rd and 24th easily take this.

4) Inferior ship designs. Not even commenting on the technology, but rather the design theories. Venators still use guns that have low range and horrible accuracy even within that range. Their design favors heavy broadsides and no apparent torpedo/missile designs. Trek on the other hand, makes use of a phaser/torpedo design that allows for far greater ranges and more accurate scores. Even if their weapons, range, and defenses were all on the same level, Trek ships win simply for the sake of better design theories.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

You guys know what I'm going to say. MUHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Seriously though, 10^24 watts for the win.

You know that posting the same refuted crap is pointless right fix the premise your calculations are based upon in regards to the fact that even at 99% mass lightening the DS still rips itself apart when it accelerates.

Why do you think that tool Wong phrased his comment so briefly like this:-

"The kinetic energy associated with a velocity of 670 km/sec is 2.2E29 joules".

"Associated with" is the phrase he uses because he is aware of what he is leaving out, the only difference is that he posted those figures knowing they were flawed while you are just a sheep who copy/pasted them without understanding their flaws.

The thing you have in common with him now is that you have now been made aware of the flaw and still knowingly preach them just like he does, personally i preferred it when you were just a idiot mouth piece rather than a complicit liar.

Will you stop posting in this thread now and pretend it never happened then post the same crap in a new one after a day or so like you have done twice already now?....

[Praeothmin]

Kor, watch the language...
You may be tired of repeating the same thing, it doesn't give you the right to say things like:

that tool Wong

you are just a sheep

you were just a idiot mouth piece rather than a complicit liar.

If you 're tired of SWST's unsupported assertions, stop debating with him. Period.
Thanks.