Star wars and star trek tech combined?

[Lucky]

Wrong, we do hear about credits, even gold-pressed Latinum bars, in DS9 when Harry is looking to pruchase rocks for his mother, or even in TNG's first show where Beverly wishes to purchase, not trade for, fabric...
Scotty even "bought a boat"...

Just like time travel.

Most of the time accidentally, and never to change the outcome of a War...
Unless you have some evidence to the contrary...

Like the whale probe.

And they always used available tech?

They always have just the right tech handy even if it's a one of a kind experimental shield, and that person who just happened to be an expert on a certain type of stellar phenomenon that is the perfect choice to cause for destroying the enemy like in "Decent".

What are the odds.

They never, oh I don't know, requested that the Prophets close the Wormhole to cut of Dominion re-enforcements from getting to the AQ?
Facts are, they could have used time-travel to make sure Betazed was preprared for an attack with newer defenses, they could have sent information about the Dominion weapon back in time to make sure Fed shields would be resistant to Dominion weapons and Breen weapons right at the beginning of the war and thus save MILLIONS OF LIVES...
They could have done the same with the Borg at Wolf 359, BUT THEY NEVER DID, and if they did have time travel as a tool, they have to be the biggest idiots in the universe not to use it to save lives...
This is not a valid reason...

Like they did with the whale probe in the movie?

Using time travel to fix a problem is a tactic seen in a few episode of Voyager, it was part of an entire story line of Enterprise, and was used in a movie.

For all we know they had to pay those millions of lives for billions.

I don't believe that at all.
Care to back that up with some evidence?

The Borg could assimilate the United Federation of planets by brute force if the Borg wanted to. One Cube is nearly enough to assimilate the UFP through brute force, and the Borg have more then enough cube, diamonds, and spheres.

In at least one episode of Voyager we see the Borg just send as many ships as it needs to to assimilate a race/planet, and the Borg don't seem to have any real shortage of ships.

What the Borg chooses to do rather then brute force which would work is to try seemingly untested methods of assimilation on the UFP, and only send what it knows is at best barely enough forces to get the job done.

[Praeothmin]

Just like time travel.

Really?
Because we hear of currency being used all through DS9.
Do we hear time-travel being used all through DS9 as well, or do we see time-travel only a few times?
Facts are, there are more references to credits, or a currency based system in ST, than time-travel...

Like the whale probe

Unlike the Dominion War were Billions of people died, unlike the nuST where Vulcan and Romulus were destroyed and no one went back to prevent it, unlike the Federation-Cardassian war where many thousands of people died...
Unlike Wolf 359, where 40 starships were destroyed, and thousands of lives lost...
In other words, a part from the whale probe, when was time-travel voluntarily used to save the Federation?

They always have just the right tech handy even if it's a one of a kind experimental shield, and that person who just happened to be an expert on a certain type of stellar phenomenon that is the perfect choice to cause for destroying the enemy like in "Decent".

What are the odds.

What Tech did they use in FC to destroy the Borg cube?
Oh, that's right, it wasn't Federation science, it was Picard's knowledge of the Borg and their weaknesses...
What tech did they use to stop V'Ger?
Oh, that's right, it was Decker sacrificing himself so V'Ger could accomplish its destiny...
What tech did they use to stop the Genesis Device?
Oh, that's right, they simply outran it because they couldn't stop it...
How did they protect the E-D from the BoP?
Oh, that's right, they were only able to use a cheat code to destroy when uncloaking, but they still weren't able to save the E-D...

Nope, they don't always have the right tech or person at the right time, and sometimes their win costs a lot (Data in NEM)...

Using time travel to fix a problem is a tactic seen in a few episode of Voyager, it was part of an entire story line of Enterprise, and was used in a movie.

Were all these attempts made by Voyager, from Tech created by Voyager, for the explicit purpose of saving Voyager?
Or, I don't know, were these istances where the time-travel incident had already happened, and they only found a way to use it to their advantage?
Care to give me some examples?

For all we know they had to pay those millions of lives for billions.

And for all we know, these were "one-shot" events, period...

The Borg could assimilate the United Federation of planets by brute force if the Borg wanted to. One Cube is nearly enough to assimilate the UFP through brute force, and the Borg have more then enough cube, diamonds, and spheres.

In at least one episode of Voyager we see the Borg just send as many ships as it needs to to assimilate a race/planet, and the Borg don't seem to have any real shortage of ships.

What the Borg chooses to do rather then brute force which would work is to try seemingly untested methods of assimilation on the UFP, and only send what it knows is at best barely enough forces to get the job done.

Except in FC they weren't trying to assimilate when firing at Cochrane's ship, they were clearly trying to destroy it, and this does not excuse the poor showings of FC...

[Lucky]

Really?
Because we hear of currency being used all through DS9.
Do we hear time-travel being used all through DS9 as well, or do we see time-travel only a few times?
Facts are, there are more references to credits, or a currency based system in ST, than time-travel...

Just like time travel only we see time travel, and they know how to do it when ever they want to.

Unlike the Dominion War were Billions of people died, unlike the nuST where Vulcan and Romulus were destroyed and no one went back to prevent it, unlike the Federation-Cardassian war where many thousands of people died...
Unlike Wolf 359, where 40 starships were destroyed, and thousands of lives lost...
In other words, a part from the whale probe, when was time-travel voluntarily used to save the Federation?

A lot of people had to have died to the whale probe, possibly millions.

What Tech did they use in FC to destroy the Borg cube?
Oh, that's right, it wasn't Federation science, it was Picard's knowledge of the Borg and their weaknesses...
What tech did they use to stop V'Ger?
Oh, that's right, it was Decker sacrificing himself so V'Ger could accomplish its destiny...
What tech did they use to stop the Genesis Device?
Oh, that's right, they simply outran it because they couldn't stop it...
How did they protect the E-D from the BoP?
Oh, that's right, they were only able to use a cheat code to destroy when uncloaking, but they still weren't able to save the E-D...

Nope, they don't always have the right tech or person at the right time, and sometimes their win costs a lot (Data in NEM)...

Again the Whale probe killed a lot of people, but they didn't stop it from killing those people.

In your examples everything worked out of the over all best. Things seem to always work out to the UFP's benefit.

Were all these attempts made by Voyager, from Tech created by Voyager, for the explicit purpose of saving Voyager?
Or, I don't know, were these istances where the time-travel incident had already happened, and they only found a way to use it to their advantage?
Care to give me some examples?

Timeless for example has time travel being used to save Voyager, and how many times was Voyager destroyed in the series?

And for all we know, these were "one-shot" events, period...

We see next to nothing the UFP does.

Except in FC they weren't trying to assimilate when firing at Cochrane's ship, they were clearly trying to destroy it, and this does not excuse the poor showings of FC...

The Borg was trying to prevent first contact with the Vulcans, and then retroactively assimilate the Earth, and possibly the UFP. Considering it work perfectly in one time line I don't think you have any room to criticize the Borg's plan.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Except in FC they weren't trying to assimilate when firing at Cochrane's ship, they were clearly trying to destroy it, and this does not excuse the poor showings of FC...

All they needed to do was delay the flight or kill Cochrane to achieve their goal.


Destroying the ship would have been counter productive and contrary to the Borg way of thinking because while it was primitive by Borg standards in the 24th century they only had one small sphere in the 21st and as the pheonix was warp capable it or its parts would be more easily adapted for use in continuing the assmilation of Alpha quadrant species.

As such low yield anti-personel shots that would reduce the chances of doing massive damage or even utterly destroying useful tech make perfect sense.

[Praeothmin]

Except in FC they weren't trying to assimilate when firing at Cochrane's ship, they were clearly trying to destroy it, and this does not excuse the poor showings of FC...

All they needed to do was delay the flight or kill Cochrane to achieve their goal.


Destroying the ship would have been counter productive and contrary to the Borg way of thinking because while it was primitive by Borg standards in the 24th century they only had one small sphere in the 21st and as the pheonix was warp capable it or its parts would be more easily adapted for use in continuing the assmilation of Alpha quadrant species.

As such low yield anti-personel shots that would reduce the chances of doing massive damage or even utterly destroying useful tech make perfect sense.

They still had the E-E, which was by far the more advanced vessel...
No excuse makes up for this...

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Except in FC they weren't trying to assimilate when firing at Cochrane's ship, they were clearly trying to destroy it, and this does not excuse the poor showings of FC...

All they needed to do was delay the flight or kill Cochrane to achieve their goal.


Destroying the ship would have been counter productive and contrary to the Borg way of thinking because while it was primitive by Borg standards in the 24th century they only had one small sphere in the 21st and as the pheonix was warp capable it or its parts would be more easily adapted for use in continuing the assmilation of Alpha quadrant species.

As such low yield anti-personel shots that would reduce the chances of doing massive damage or even utterly destroying useful tech make perfect sense.

They still had the E-E, which was by far the more advanced vessel...
No excuse makes up for this...

No they did not the E-E had not even arrived when they started shooting it was after that the E-E turned up.

But if you want to prove it you need to prove:

That they were certain they would be able to take it over BEFORE they even knew it was following and that also means knowing the E-E's shields and sensors ect would be lost during the trip.

[Praeothmin]

They still had the E-E, which was by far the more advanced vessel...
No excuse makes up for this...

No they did not the E-E had not even arrived when they started shooting it was after that the E-E turned up.

But if you want to prove it you need to prove:

That they were certain they would be able to take it over BEFORE they even knew it was following and that also means knowing the E-E's shields and sensors ect would be lost during the trip.[/quote]

Actually, you need to prove that they effectively wanted or needed the ship and din't just want to destroy it.
you guys made the claim, and never backed it up...
The sphere itself was capable of generating the time tunnel, so we have no reason to believe it couldn't go to warp or that it needed Cochrane's vessel.
Your claim, thus the burden of proof is on you...

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Stupid double post, i need to cut down on the pon DL's. its lagging my shit up.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Actually, you need to prove that they effectively wanted or needed the ship and didn't just want to destroy it.

Because it is perfectly consistant with standard Borg behavior, the fact they targeted structures around the camp rather than just focusing on the bunker and used lower firepower levels.

It all fits.

The sphere itself was capable of generating the time tunnel, so we have no reason to believe it couldn't go to warp or that it needed Cochrane's vessel.

I think that it is perfectly reasonable to assume that the sphere was warp capable maybe even having limited transwarp but that in no way detracts from them wasting useful material in regards to constructing more ships or expanding/improving the one they already have to more effeciently assimilate the rest of the alpha quadrant.

[Praeothmin]

Really...
So you're saying that if the Borg had destroyed Cochrane's ship, and assimilated everybody on Earth, they would not have have the raw materials needed for the building of other Borg ships?
Not likely, as the Earth wasn't a barren wasteland with only Cochrane's silo as a source of electronics and other raw materials...
Shooting all around the silo is consistent with wanting to kill everyone who could create or repair such a ship and allow the Borg to assimilate the entire planet without the knowledge of the Vulcan...
Low showings still not explained...

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Really...
So you're saying that if the Borg had destroyed Cochrane's ship, and assimilated everybody on Earth, they would not have have the raw materials needed for the building of other Borg ships?

NO, that is a exaggeration to the point absurdity of what i am saying.

I am saying it would be more effecient to just kill those around the ship to prevent the launch without damaging it much or destroying it, and that is perfectly consistant with how the borg are portrayed and explains perfectly the low yield anti-personel levels of firepower as well as the fact they targeted habitats ect.

[Praeothmin]

and that is perfectly consistant with how the borg are portrayed

How?
How is that, at all, consistent with how the Borg are portrayed?

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

and that is perfectly consistant with how the borg are portrayed

How?
How is that, at all, consistent with how the Borg are portrayed?

Borg take and adapt useable tech so pointlessly destroying the pheonix when killing Cochrane or even just delaying its launch would achieve the same goal would be counter to their mentality.

I have pointed this out several times now in reasonable detail and other than asking me to phrase it another way you have done nothing to argue with it (il not include your Reductio ad absurdum as im feeling kind).

[User1442]

and that is perfectly consistant with how the borg are portrayed

How?
How is that, at all, consistent with how the Borg are portrayed?

Borg take and adapt useable tech so pointlessly destroying the pheonix when killing Cochrane or even just delaying its launch would achieve the same goal would be counter to their mentality.

I have pointed this out several times now in reasonable detail and other than asking me to phrase it another way you have done nothing to argue with it (il not include your Reductio ad absurdum as im feeling kind).

But that in itself is inefficent. The borg can either:

A: Destroy the ship, and the mission is accomplished, without any possibility of failure.
B: Save the ship, have a extra primitive ship design, and increase their chances of failure significantly.

I'd rather say that the borg at the time were having problems with their sensors because of traveling through time. Of course why didn't they just use a huge high yield blast. I dunno. I guess it all comes down to, if they did.............it'd be a boring movie.

[Lucky]

But that in itself is inefficent. The borg can either:

A: Destroy the ship, and the mission is accomplished, without any possibility of failure.
B: Save the ship, have a extra primitive ship design, and increase their chances of failure significantly.

I'd rather say that the borg at the time were having problems with their sensors because of traveling through time. Of course why didn't they just use a huge high yield blast. I dunno. I guess it all comes down to, if they did.............it'd be a boring movie.

The Borg make no sense in universe also. Trying to figure out what it is thinking will just give you a headache.

Take their ships for example: The borg designs ships that are not efficient. The shape of a trek ships decides how efficiently it can travel at warp, and yet all Borg ships are not warp dinamic.