“Attention Deficit Hypermatter Disorder”

[User1462]

DarkStar’s website (st-v-sw.net) says that the EU claims of “hypermatter” are contradicted by higher canon, and that all power in SW comes from pure fusion. If so, then that destroys all these outrageous claims for power-figures in the bazillions of gigatons etc.

This also fits with the slow acceleration-speeds seen, for example:
1. TIE fighters can accelerate faster than the Falcon, while running on solar power;
2. the Falcon can only make .5 past lightspeed on hyperdrive.

“Hyperdrive” is also used to describe warp-drive (“The Cage), but obviously they were talking a lot faster than warp 1.5 (in the book, Solo says that the Falcon would make .5 factors past lightspeed, i.e. warp factor 1.5).
This also makes sense from the firepower seen in the movies, since we don’t see anything with very great power-- other than the Death Star, which is simply a gigantic fusion-reactor with a strange ray-gun attached. The destruction of Alderaan must have used some method of simply converting geothermal energy to kinetic/potential energy, since otherwise the planet—mostly liquid magma—would have been vapourized.

Darkstar and G2K calculated the maximum power-generation-figures of fusion from hydrogen-stores, and I agree with them; therefore as long as the ships are fusion-powered, they would be no match for the Federation anti-matter powered ships, even in terms of energy-production alone.
This would also explain why no ship small as the Falcon would have a cloaking-device, since it simply wouldn’t have enough power. Even the fusion-powered Romulan ship in “Balance of Terror” couldn’t run their cloaking device for very long without using up their fuel, which was why they only used it periodically rather than non-stop; however when they switched to Klingon warp-driven ships, they could stay cloaked full-time.
In “The Outrageous Okuna,” Picard likewise states that the lasers from presumably fusion-powered ships can’t harm a Federation starship; and so I’d agree with that as well that the fusion-powered SW ships couldn’t harm a Federation ship, since the anti-matter powered shields could deflect more energy than the fusion-powered lasers could throw at them.
This would be the case even if the Federation ship just sat there and took it, rather than simply just going to warp and making it look like a Speedy Gonzales cartoon, and likewise the Imperial ships’ shields couldn’t stand up to the energy of the Federation ships’ anti-matter powered weapons—even if the weapons and shields were all equally advanced, which they’re not.
Picard: “Ensign Gonzales: eng-GAGE!”
“Arriba, arriba, edele endele!”

[Mr. Oragahn]

DarkStar’s website (st-v-sw.net) says that the EU claims of “hypermatter” are contradicted by higher canon, and that all power in SW comes from pure fusion. If so, then that destroys all these outrageous claims for power-figures in the bazillions of gigatons etc.

This also fits with the slow acceleration-speeds seen, for example:
1. TIE fighters can accelerate faster than the Falcon, while running on solar power;
2. the Falcon can only make .5 past lightspeed on hyperdrive.

1. Huh. As far as I recall "solar panels" for TIEs is an EU concept. Assuming an efficiency above 90%, a panel being something like 6.4 meters long and probably 7 meters high or more, if we treat it as a 6.4 meters wide disc, you get about 33~34 KW. Over a minute you get 2 MJ or so. Most likely the panels would provide an extra source of power.
In other sources, they're cooling panels.
2. 0.5 past lightspeed is not 1.5 c.

“Hyperdrive” is also used to describe warp-drive (“The Cage), but obviously they were talking a lot faster than warp 1.5 (in the book, Solo says that the Falcon would make .5 factors past lightspeed, i.e. warp factor 1.5).

Quite obviously Trek's warp 1.5 (and that depends on the era btw) is not Wars' .5 class hyperdrive.
Those in the EU are actually VERY fast.

This also makes sense from the firepower seen in the movies, since we don’t see anything with very great power-- other than the Death Star, which is simply a gigantic fusion-reactor with a strange ray-gun attached. The destruction of Alderaan must have used some method of simply converting geothermal energy to kinetic/potential energy, since otherwise the planet—mostly liquid magma—would have been vapourized.

You can't convert geothermal energy into a blast and expect to see the planet get pulverized.

Darkstar and G2K calculated the maximum power-generation-figures of fusion from hydrogen-stores, and I agree with them;

They're the same guy.

therefore as long as the ships are fusion-powered, they would be no match for the Federation anti-matter powered ships, even in terms of energy-production alone.

Not necessarily. One doesn't gain an upper hand merely by using AM if we don't know how much AM is consumed per second actually, and how much energy can be collected from this process.
That is, before we start to look at figures, of course.

This would also explain why no ship small as the Falcon would have a cloaking-device, since it simply wouldn’t have enough power.

In the EU, Darth Maul's Infiltrator was capable of fully cloaking. I'm pretty sure some gadgets in the EU even allow some infantry to cloak similarly, although it must be very rare.

In “The Outrageous Okuna,” Picard likewise states that the lasers from presumably fusion-powered ships can’t harm a Federation starship; and so I’d agree with that as well that the fusion-powered SW ships couldn’t harm a Federation ship, since the anti-matter powered shields could deflect more energy than the fusion-powered lasers could throw at them.

The power of the laser may not be the only limiting factor. Btw, what if the fusion core is actually very big? Most Trek ships devote a small volume to the cores. The Defiant was an exception and barely holding when pushed.
But some SF race could decide to have its warship to be about 50% core and the rest weapons, drive and sensors, with little extra.

[User1462]

That would be the DS, and we saw what one little mosquito-bite did to that ticking H-bomb.

And why can't geothermal energy blow up a planet? There's absolutely enough geothermal energy in an earth-sized plane to pulverize it, you just have to disperse into space somehow. The only thing stopping Earth from shattering right now is the distance from space insulating it from dispersing the energy, and hyperspace-tech can change that easily, you just need a larget enough field. The DS could do that.

Obviously AM provides more power than fusion, otherwise they wouldn't use it. The Romulans in BoT had AM, but only for weapons, that would explain why their power was mere impulse. It's just like we are able to use fusion today, but only for weapons.

The Falcon could only make .5 factors past lightspeed, that's warp 1.5.
As for the EU, that's obviously exaggerated beyond what's on-screen, so let's stick to that. If we didn't see Maul's ship cloak then it's an EU outlier.

[Praeothmin]

In the EU, Darth Maul's Infiltrator was capable of fully cloaking.

And in TCW, Anakin used a ship not much longer than the MF which also had a cloak, à la Star Trek...

[User1462]

But that's contradicted by what Adm. Piett said in TESB, so it's non-canon.

[Khas]

The Falcon could only make .5 factors past lightspeed, that's warp 1.5.
As for the EU, that's obviously exaggerated beyond what's on-screen, so let's stick to that. If we didn't see Maul's ship cloak then it's an EU outlier.

Actually, in SW, Han was refering to the Falcon's Class-0.5 Hyperdrive. The lower a hyperdrive class, the faster the ship will go.

But that's contradicted by what Adm. Piett said in TESB, so it's non-canon.

Wrong Imperial officer. It was Captain Nieda who said that. And as he was only a captain, he might not have known about that ship, which might have had an experimental cloaking device.

Waitaminute, KirkSkywalker, is that you?

[Mike DiCenso]

Actually, if you go and look at scaling work RSA and I did for the "Star Wars Cloaking Devices" thread, you'll see that the length of the stealth ship from TCW's "Cat and Mouse" is somewhere between 120 to 137 meters, or about 4 to 4.5 times the Falcon's length. The real issue was in volume, since the Falcon was "smaller" than the prototype vessel, but not as much as the length; 3,600 cubic meter versus ~2000 m^3.
-Mike

[Praeothmin]

But that's contradicted by what Adm. Piett said in TESB, so it's non-canon.

Wrong, it's in The clone Wars, with George Lucas's explicit statements to the direction crew that it is part of the Star Wars movie continuity, so it is completely Canon... :)

You can read it here:

# By Chris Baker Email Author
# August 15, 2008 |
# 2:38 pm |
# Categories: Movies, sci-fi

"Even though it was animated in a stylized CG form, George made it very clear to director Dave Filoni and myself that the animated movie was continuing the story of the live-action movies," says Gilroy.

So, from the man himself, TCW are part of Star Wars Canon...

[User1462]

"George made it very clear to director Dave Filoni and myself that the animated movie was continuing the story of the live-action movies"

so it is completely Canon

That doesn't make it canon, it only means you are interpreting that statement to your own purposes, just like I've noticed that the Warsies do with every official statement made. Like if Lucas said "I'd like a cup of coffee," they'll say "see? PROOF!"
"Continuing the story" just means that they pick up where it leaves off.

[Mr. Oragahn]

That would be the DS, and we saw what one little mosquito-bite did to that ticking H-bomb.

And this is unrelated to the power production.

And why can't geothermal energy blow up a planet? There's absolutely enough geothermal energy in an earth-sized plane to pulverize it, you just have to disperse into space somehow.

Well, you can crack it, but you're not going to get your omnidirectional Death Starish explosion, if that's what you mean. But if it weren't omni, you'd get a powerful geyser ripping off a huge chunk of it. There's like e31 J in stock.

The only thing stopping Earth from shattering right now is the distance from space insulating it from dispersing the energy,...

I don't think insulation has much to do here, in comparison to gravity alone. Insulation doesn't work well, as the planet loses more power than it produces.

Obviously AM provides more power than fusion, otherwise they wouldn't use it. The Romulans in BoT had AM, but only for weapons, that would explain why their power was mere impulse. It's just like we are able to use fusion today, but only for weapons.

Yes, but the power density difference is circumvented if you increase the size of your fusion core, assuming size is related to the amount of fuel you can process. Gaining a single order of magnitude doesn't require much of a volumetric increase; about a factor of 2.1544 on all three dimensions. It's like putting two cores side by side.
If you want 100 times more power, you can get that with a factor of 4.64.

The Falcon could only make .5 factors past lightspeed, that's warp 1.5.

Where do you get that from?
Hyperspace in SW isn't anything like FTL in Trek, and both use different scales to measure FTL speeds.
And obviously the MF can go well beyond 1.5 c, otherwise it would have taken ages for them to get anywhere!

As for the EU, that's obviously exaggerated beyond what's on-screen, so let's stick to that. If we didn't see Maul's ship cloak then it's an EU outlier.

Well in the EU it's not an outlier, it's a fact. Because it does happen.

[Picard]

Also, warp 1.5 is way more than 1.5 c. According to TOS scale, it would be 3.375 c. Warp 3 is 27 c according to TOS scale. I think we can presume something similar with hyperdrive, with "point five [factors] past lightspeed" being lot faster than mere 1.5 c.

[Praeothmin]

"George made it very clear to director Dave Filoni and myself that the animated movie was continuing the story of the live-action movies"

so it is completely Canon

That doesn't make it canon, it only means you are interpreting that statement to your own purposes, just like I've noticed that the Warsies do with every official statement made. Like if Lucas said "I'd like a cup of coffee," they'll say "see? PROOF!"
"Continuing the story" just means that they pick up where it leaves off.

What is movie only Canon?
Everything that comes from GL?
Then the TCW is as close as you can get it:
First, it was a movie, made by GL, so it fits with movie canon.
Then, that movie was continued in a series, also made by GL, so it's still George's baby.
The fact it's on tv doesn't stop it from being made by GL, doesn't stop it from continuing the stories from the live action movies, thus by "continuing", it is part of the movie "continuity"...