Would the Force even WORK in our galaxy?

[Praeothmin]

There's the fact that in the EU, there are varying sword techniques, and some focus on blocking energy weapon attacks. It's arguable that the dinosaur dude wasn't really skilled in dealing with blasters. It just seems that the Jedi brought as many masters as possible.

That said, in general, Obi-Wan and like skilled Jedi can survive shooting from several clones, while I doubt even them or Windu could have managed against two to four Jangos firing at the same time.

I agree about the different Lightsabre techniques.
What I've been arguing for a long time against apparently deaf ears is that no Clone commando is Jango's equal, and that Jedi Masters and Knights alike can be defeated by a big enough force, so in a war between the Federation and the Empire or Republic, even the presence of a Jedi or Sith will not tip the balance so much that it takes twice as many Federation soldiers to defeat a SW army which includes a Force user...
Not even a 10% superiority, in fact...

[KirkSkyWalker]

Except that Obi-wan was trying to arrest Jango, not kill him-- which would have defeated his entire purpose of bringing him before the Jedi Council for information.

Jango also had no experience fighting Jedi-- and that was exactly what he fled Kamino to avoid.

He still gave Obi-Wan a lot more difficulties then any standard clone would have.

1. Speculation.
2. Clones fought as armies, Jango worked alone.
3. Obi-Wan never tried to arrest any clones.

He still killed a Jedi Master in the arena on Geonosis with a few quick, well placed blasts, and he still went after Mace Windu when he could have fled the arena even more easily then he fled Kamino.

Master, or just a knight?

So no, I'm pretty sure he fled because he didn't want to put his son in danger, had no way of killing the Jedi when they were dangling, and neede to rendez-vous quickly with his employers...

More speculation, the novelization said different.

the Jedi also trusted them, took them for granted and and treated them as expendible, so the feeling was mutual between them.

So because of that trust, the Jedi all suddenly became idiots and incompetent fools?

They died, you decide.

They still used the Force to evade the Clones attacking them, tried to defend themselves with their sabers.

Not all of them.

since these Jedi did trust the Clones, I agree it was easier for the Clones to ambush and kill them, and it STILL required 6 to 10 Clones per Jedi, Jedi who weren't more powerful then Obi-Wan.

Yeah, they were an ARMY, that's how it works; they were genetically altered AND trained to be stronger as a unit. If you somehow replicated Jango Fett exactly, even TWO of them couldn't work together, and they'd probably all kill each other.

So no Clone is Jango's equal, period...

Again, it's impossible to compare, they were an ARMY not a clone.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

I agree about the different Lightsabre techniques.
What I've been arguing for a long time against apparently deaf ears is that no Clone commando is Jango's equal, and that Jedi Masters and Knights alike can be defeated by a big enough force, so in a war between the Federation and the Empire or Republic, even the presence of a Jedi or Sith will not tip the balance so much that it takes twice as many Federation soldiers to defeat a SW army which includes a Force user...
Not even a 10% superiority, in fact...

Lets face it no jedi is suited to big battles or true warfare, they would make great assasins and the like but are poorly setup for large battles.

It does not matter what Lightsabre technique is used in a battle of thousands there is no way he can block 50 or more bolts coming at him or avoid large explosions, all his skills and abilities in large chaotic blob fights are wasted.

[KirkSkyWalker]

Clones were trained by other people, notably the ARCs, but I think there's that stuff in the EU that also shows Jango giving lessons. There are other hunters who visited him while he was on Kamino.

Consider the armor alone, which is clearly based on Jango's Mandalorean armor, and so was obviously of his design. Jango also gauranteed Obi-an that the army would do their job-- how could he do that, if he hadn't trained them?
Second, why would Dooku recruit Jango for cloning based on his record as a bounty-hunter and warrior, but not also hire him to train them in Mandalorean battle-tactics? Did he think all that was hereditary?

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

You cannot train or clone experiance, nor can you train so many clone to such a high degree of specialisation jango had from his years as a merc.

The clones were infantry and likely were trained as such, they would have had basic training just like most standard infantry gets.

[KirkSkyWalker]

I agree about the different Lightsabre techniques.
What I've been arguing for a long time against apparently deaf ears is that no Clone commando is Jango's equal, and that Jedi Masters and Knights alike can be defeated by a big enough force, so in a war between the Federation and the Empire or Republic, even the presence of a Jedi or Sith will not tip the balance so much that it takes twice as many Federation soldiers to defeat a SW army which includes a Force user...
Not even a 10% superiority, in fact...

Lets face it no jedi is suited to big battles or true warfare, they would make great assasins and the like but are poorly setup for large battles.

It does not matter what Lightsabre technique is used in a battle of thousands there is no way he can block 50 or more bolts coming at him or avoid large explosions, all his skills and abilities in large chaotic blob fights are wasted.

If Obi-wan can disable the Death Star by himself (tracotr-beam or anything else), I'd say they can do a lot of damage as Special-Forces commandos in sabotage.
Also there's the whole greater Force-sense thing, by which paplatine alone was able to conquer and rule the Galaxy-- the Force knows all, and sees all, and binds the Star Wars galaxy together.... under bondage and rule of the midichlorians.

This goes back to my original point: if the Force didn't work in our galaxy, then they'd be limited to their weapons and armies-- which I think we can concur are pretty much useless against UFP defenses.

In to use the Force, they likewise need midichlorians, which are microscopic life-forms that reside within the cells of all living things and communicate with the Force.They are said to be symbionts with all other living things, and without them life could not exist.

(This is what I speculated on in the TOS fanfic, i.e. the midichlorians were parasites who kept the SW galaxy stagnant and at war, and the Force is simply the combined bioelectric fields of every living cell, which are coordinated by the midichlorians to create The Force, which gives them power over the citizens of the galaxy).

So without midichlorians in our galaxy, there's no Force-- and no Force-powers; and likewise those dependent on them would all die.. unless they infected our galaxy in an attempt for the Empire to take over our Galaxy under the Force.

And so what if the Empire was infesting our galaxy with midchlorians first? How would we know it, other than being picked up by bio-filters in transporters etc?

And what if Dr. McCoy etc. cured us of the midichlorian parasites, and we had to go likewise free the SW galaxy of their contagion?

[KirkSkyWalker]

You cannot train or clone experiance,

You can if the sims are good enough; clearly, they were pretty good judging from the way the Clones handled themselves on Geonosis and duringthe CLone Wars.

nor can you train so many clone to such a high degree of specialisation jango had from his years as a merc.

Before that he was a Mandalorean soldier, and that's what the clones were trained as.
The Jedi handled the SFO stuff.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

You cannot train or clone experiance,

You can if the sims are good enough; clearly, they were pretty good judging from the way the Clones handled themselves on Geonosis and duringthe CLone Wars.

nor can you train so many clone to such a high degree of specialisation jango had from his years as a merc.

Before that he was a Mandalorean soldier, and that's what the clones were trained as.
The Jedi handled the SFO stuff.

Geonosis was a victory although they outnumbered a enemy that was exposed and ut of position so its hardly a good bench mark for success. Saying that though the tactics they used were considerably better than the initial 200+ jedi attack that was a disgrace to see even by the most basic of strategists.

Still Infantry is infantry and the training is pretty much the same all over and only really changes depending on equipment or if you specialise in a particular terrain.

[Praeothmin]

Whether Jango fled because he was afraid or not (haven't read the novel in a while) has no incidence on the fact he was giving a powerful Jedi a run for his money...
Whether a Master or a Knight, he was a Lightsabre wielding Jedi who had clear line of sight to his opponent...

And of course, the Jedi died, they were attacked by multiple opponents at the same time...
The way they died, whether they tried to defend themselves with Lightsabres or not is irrelevant.
What is relevant is that they are not Uber warriors who can conquer armies all by themselves, even in their own Universe...

So now Jango trained them to function as a unit, but he himself isn't capable of working in one?
You can't have both, either Jango trained them, and so they will fight like him, or he didn't, and so they do not possess his knowledge.
Either way, what they do not possess is his experience and are not as skilled...


And who says Midichlorians don't exist in our Galaxy?
Who says they are not simply named differently here?

[KirkSkyWalker]

And who says Midichlorians don't exist in our Galaxy?
Who says they are not simply named differently here?

Proving a negative.
There isn't anything even remotely like them, and they'd be known if they existed.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

And who says Midichlorians don't exist in our Galaxy?
Who says they are not simply named differently here?

Because nothing has that effect.

I would say their are plenty of examples of TP, TK, precognition and other force like abilities in the ST galaxy in fact considerably more than in the SW galaxy as ST has entire species with one if not more powers of a simular nature.

[KirkSkyWalker]

And who says Midichlorians don't exist in our Galaxy?
Who says they are not simply named differently here?

Because nothing has that effect.

I would say their are plenty of examples of TP, TK, precognition and other force like abilities in the ST galaxy in fact considerably more than in the SW galaxy as ST has entire species with one if not more powers of a simular nature.

NOT attributable to micro-organisms that exist in every living thing in the galaxy. TP is due to brain=structure and physiology, TK was due to Kironide-levels etc,; and likewise I haven't even seen any examples of precognition, other than the prophecies of the wormhole aliens.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

NOT attributable to micro-organisms that exist in every living thing in the galaxy. TP is due to brain=structure and physiology, TK was due to Kironide-levels etc,; and likewise I haven't even seen any examples of precognition, other than the prophecies of the wormhole aliens.

Kes and others in several episodes had TK and TP abilities and i do not rember her coming from Platonius.

WTF is precognition if not a form of mental time travel?, unless you are gonna throw out Quantum mechanics and claim we live in a pure newtonian galaxy/universe you are stuck with it pal.

[KirkSkyWalker]

NOT attributable to micro-organisms that exist in every living thing in the galaxy. TP is due to brain=structure and physiology, TK was due to Kironide-levels etc,; and likewise I haven't even seen any examples of precognition, other than the prophecies of the wormhole aliens.

Kes and others in several episodes had TK and TP abilities and i do not rember her coming from Platonius.

Thus the modifier "etc." However it was inherent to her species, not midichlorian-levels.

WTF is precognition if not a form of mental time travel?, unless you are gonna throw out Quantum mechanics and claim we live in a pure newtonian galaxy/universe you are stuck with it pal.

The wormhole aliens didn't do it via midichlorians, they existed outside of linear time.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

NOT attributable to micro-organisms that exist in every living thing in the galaxy. TP is due to brain=structure and physiology, TK was due to Kironide-levels etc,; and likewise I haven't even seen any examples of precognition, other than the prophecies of the wormhole aliens.

Kes and others in several episodes had TK and TP abilities and i do not rember her coming from Platonius.

Thus the modifier "etc." However it was inherent to her species, not midichlorian-levels.

It was never defined why it was inherant to her species, nor were many other races abilities defined to a cause.

As such midichlorian-levels could be as much a reason as any other.

WTF is precognition if not a form of mental time travel?, unless you are gonna throw out Quantum mechanics and claim we live in a pure newtonian galaxy/universe you are stuck with it pal.

The wormhole aliens didn't do it via midichlorians, they existed outside of linear time.

I never said they did, but the fact is that precognitionin any species can only exist in our concept of known physics via time travel of one kind or another, be it mental, physical or metaphysical and that includes the force.