Federation attack fighter vs Klingon Bird-of-Prey in a fight

[2046]

It does run contrary to almost everything we know about Starfleet and starship combat.

Best guess is that the fighters were generally more of a local thing . . . police cars, if you will . . . but in certain situations they were deemed useful. Case in point is "Sacrifice of Angels", where at the cost of even hundreds of fighters (just to estimate wildly), they'd only lost the equivalent manpower of maybe a couple of starships, and thereby opened the hole in the lines that Sisko sought (if even only as a ruse by Dukat).

Compared to the losses that would've been incurred had Sisko tried to target the Cardassians with larger starships, and the use of fighters seems a bargain in blood (and maybe even treasure, depending on what it takes to build them versus a starship).

That kind of math makes the Federation fighter pilots even more badass. Or crazy. Whichever. Maybe they just didn't like the idea of dying at random on a starship and would rather control their own fate just a bit more. Who knows?

On other occasions, I'd presume they were simply present as part of the whole kitchen sink.

[Mike DiCenso]

Remember that the normal fleet would have had fighters and captial ships working in concert together as we saw later in "What you leave behind". Without the support of the captial ships, the fighters are relatively easy pickings, though they still managed a couple good hits here and there in SoA. In mixed combat operations, however, the fighters are there to compliment the firepower of the capital ships and probably to sneak in punches when the enemy capital ships are tied up dealing with their opposite number.
-Mike

[Praeothmin]

Also, a fighter will have an easier time getting through tight spots in the nemy lines then a bigger capital ship.
Say you need to reinforce wing B, located on the other side of the battle field, but that an enemy force is blocking your way.
You'll have less trouble going through with fighters, and losing less ships (better maneuverability) then if you try to go through using Capital ships...

[Jasonb]

. There is evidence for quantum torpedoes on Federation attack fighters. Just check the scripts on "Sacrifice of Angels". It say that Federation attact fighters armed with quatum torpedoes.

[Mike DiCenso]

The scripts are not canon, though it does give us an idea of the writers' intent. The only as-filmed special visual FX that gives us some confirmation of the writers' intent are the blue-white bolts that the fighters are shown shooting at the Galors, which look and act very much like quantum torpedoes.
-Mike

[Roondar]

Remember that the normal fleet would have had fighters and captial ships working in concert together as we saw later in "What you leave behind". Without the support of the captial ships, the fighters are relatively easy pickings, though they still managed a couple good hits here and there in SoA. In mixed combat operations, however, the fighters are there to compliment the firepower of the capital ships and probably to sneak in punches when the enemy capital ships are tied up dealing with their opposite number.
-Mike

Basically a harrasement role, right?

Because if said enemy capital ships wanted them dead over their primary targets, they'd be dead. In fact, if these fighters are carrying capital ship grade quantum torpedoes that'd be a smart thing to do - shoot down the mobile torpedo launchers and you've evened the score.

I'm still not completely convinced they made that much sense to use. Mostly because how ST portrays the effectiveness of smaller ships in general. Even the ones fielded by the Borg (during Voyager) turned out to be little more than cannon fodder.

[sonofccn]

Basically a harrasement role, right?

Because if said enemy capital ships wanted them dead over their primary targets, they'd be dead. In fact, if these fighters are carrying capital ship grade quantum torpedoes that'd be a smart thing to do - shoot down the mobile torpedo launchers and you've evened the score.

The problem is that while 8+ fighters strike with ( being generous to them) the strength of a weak capitol ship destroying them doesn't equal the same in manpower or quiet likely in raw resources netting the Feds a , very cold blooded, gain in addition to tying up the enemy vessel's phaser fire or a torpedo to swat the hornets buzzing it.

I'm still not completely convinced they made that much sense to use. Mostly because how ST portrays the effectiveness of smaller ships in general. Even the ones fielded by the Borg (during Voyager) turned out to be little more than cannon fodder.

Over all I think Starfleet agrees with you. Hence why they only really saw action during a major war with everything on the line. Under normal circumstances they prefer large, heavily shielded vessels that have a very high chance to bring you back alive.

The trick is getting them into position to do so. As seen in TNG's "Preemptive Strike", a photon torpedo detonated in the middle of a fighter and raider group can toss them all about rather nicely, and as they approach they could face fire from the BoP's main guns.

That is a tricky issue with the best bets I would think is a short range warp jump or keep your formation spread out until you are at desirable swarming range.

[2046]

The only as-filmed special visual FX that gives us some confirmation of the writers' intent are the blue-white bolts that the fighters are shown shooting at the Galors, which look and act very much like quantum torpedoes.

The fighter weapons are yellow/orange in SoA.

[Cocytus]

the blue-white bolts that the fighters are shown shooting at the Galors, which look and act very much like quantum torpedoes.

As I recall, those blue-white bolts were being shot at the fighters, not from them. Those same blue white bolts are later used by a Jem'Hadar battlecruiser to destroy the Majestic.

[Mike DiCenso]

the blue-white bolts that the fighters are shown shooting at the Galors, which look and act very much like quantum torpedoes.

As I recall, those blue-white bolts were being shot at the fighters, not from them. Those same blue white bolts are later used by a Jem'Hadar battlecruiser to destroy the Majestic.

Nope, those little volleys of bolts are coming from the fighters as seen here in this YouTube compliation of the SoA battle scenes from 0:53 onwards.
-Mike

[Mike DiCenso]

The only as-filmed special visual FX that gives us some confirmation of the writers' intent are the blue-white bolts that the fighters are shown shooting at the Galors, which look and act very much like quantum torpedoes.

The fighter weapons are yellow/orange in SoA.

Some of them are and some are not. I think that's a YATI due to the shared workload between Digital Muse and Foundation Imaging.
-Mike

[Cocytus]

Nope, those little volleys of bolts are coming from the fighters as seen here in this YouTube compliation of the SoA battle scenes from 0:53 onwards.
-Mike

My Season 6 DVD trumps youtube. The blue white bolts are coming from the Jem'Hadar battlecruiser. The compilation is missing a crucial few seconds.

[Mr. Oragahn]

It does run contrary to almost everything we know about Starfleet and starship combat.

Best guess is that the fighters were generally more of a local thing . . . police cars, if you will . . . but in certain situations they were deemed useful. Case in point is "Sacrifice of Angels", where at the cost of even hundreds of fighters (just to estimate wildly), they'd only lost the equivalent manpower of maybe a couple of starships, and thereby opened the hole in the lines that Sisko sought (if even only as a ruse by Dukat).

Compared to the losses that would've been incurred had Sisko tried to target the Cardassians with larger starships, and the use of fighters seems a bargain in blood (and maybe even treasure, depending on what it takes to build them versus a starship).

That kind of math makes the Federation fighter pilots even more badass. Or crazy. Whichever. Maybe they just didn't like the idea of dying at random on a starship and would rather control their own fate just a bit more. Who knows?

On other occasions, I'd presume they were simply present as part of the whole kitchen sink.

Although I don't get why you think a fighter couldn't carry at least one torpedo under its belly for example (and these fighters were rather big, so I'd expect them to be able to carry more), it's also rather clear that the ratio firepower/volume is in favour of the fighter, compared to your average UFP ship present then (aside from the newer ones which had more weapons, and excluding the Defiant).

[The Dude]

Although I don't get why you think a fighter couldn't carry at least one torpedo under its belly for example (and these fighters were rather big, so I'd expect them to be able to carry more), it's also rather clear that the ratio firepower/volume is in favour of the fighter, compared to your average UFP ship present then (aside from the newer ones which had more weapons, and excluding the Defiant).

I would expect that a fighter would be able to carry a PT externally like a modern fighter and you see quite clearly in TWOK that they have what appear to have engines but they always mention them getting fired by tubes/launchers. So there must be more going on then "hey it's got an engine".

[Mike DiCenso]

Nope, those little volleys of bolts are coming from the fighters as seen here in this YouTube compliation of the SoA battle scenes from 0:53 onwards.
-Mike

My Season 6 DVD trumps youtube. The blue white bolts are coming from the Jem'Hadar battlecruiser. The compilation is missing a crucial few seconds.

I'am talking about during the strafing runs on the Cardassian Galors.
-Mike