ACCLAMATOR - weapons

Who is like God arbour · Post by **Who is like God arbour** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:57 pm

According to Star Wars vs Star Trek in Five Minutes, the Star Wars Episode II Incredible Cross-Sections states, that an Acclamator has a firewower of 24 light guns with 6 megatons per shot and 12 heavy guns with 200 gigatons per shot.

Wookieepedia has, also in reference to Star Wars Episode II Incredible Cross-Sections, published the same values.

I think, that this is very interessting because, not only have I never seen an Acclamator firing, but I have never seen any weapons on an Acclamator.

A turbo laser was presented in Star Wars always as a turret:

A turbo laser turret of a Trade Federation ship

The turbo laser turret of a Venator-class Star Destroyer

The turbo laser turret of an Imperial-class Star Destroyer

A turbo laser turret of the Death Star.

But where are the wepons of an Acclamator? I can't see any.

Is the Acclamator unarmed and the ICS incorrect?

Post by **Mike DiCenso** » Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:03 pm

This is something that has bothered me as well. It is not as though the so-called Acclamators are weaponless, but they certainly seem to lack the heavy guns of their successor SDs.

However, I can see the Acclamators having light TLs hidden away in the sidewall trench alcoves, much as we see in TESB with the various TLs that fire from no obviously visible guns in the Imperial Star Destroyers' side trenches and superstructure terraces.
-Mike

Socar · Post by **Socar** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 1:22 am

If anyone has scans of the Acclamator entry in the ICS or New Essential Guide to Vehicles and Vessels, it might be helpful.

GStone · Post by **GStone** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 3:39 am

I do remember a beam weapon shooting out of the underside of an SD, hitting a CIS ship during the opening battle before a piece of shrapnel flies back and hits the SD that fired on it.

Edit: Outside of that, I just remember the quad turrets Ben and Anakin fly past.

Socar · Post by **Socar** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 4:53 am

GStone wrote:I do remember a beam weapon shooting out of the underside of an SD, hitting a CIS ship during the opening battle before a piece of shrapnel flies back and hits the SD that fired on it.

Edit: Outside of that, I just remember the quad turrets Ben and Anakin fly past.

I think you're thinking of Venators.

Who is like God arbour · Post by **Who is like God arbour** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:16 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:This is something that has bothered me as well. It is not as though the so-called Acclamators are weaponless, but they certainly seem to lack the heavy guns of their successor SDs.

However, I can see the Acclamators having light TLs hidden away in the sidewall trench alcoves, much as we see in TESB with the various TLs that fire from no obviously visible guns in the Imperial Star Destroyers' side trenches and superstructure terraces.
-Mike

If you klick on this picture,

it should, as all the other picture, I have posted, open in a new window.

There, you can see the side trench. But there are no weapons.

It is pity, that we have no similar picture from an Imperial Star Destroyer. The best shot, I could find, would be this:

But details still aren't good to recognize and I'm afraid, that this is not am Imperial Star Destroyer but the Executor.

But on this picture,

there seems to be, beside the Lateral quad laser battery in the side trench, small turbolaser stations emplaced in the hull.

But while the Imperial Star Destroyer is round about 1'600 meters long and therefore the details of these small turbolaser stations would be difficult to notice, the Acclamator, according to Wookieepedia is "only" 752 meters long, so that such weapons emplacements would appear twice as large.

But nevertheless, there is nothing, what I would recognize as a weapon emplacement in the pictures above.

Maybe, if someone has a ICS picture of the Acclamator, it could be posted here.

GStone · Post by **GStone** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 2:53 pm

I have the ICS, but my scanner's busted. Anyway, the picture only shows 2 quad cannons in the trench on the right side of the ship. But, it does call a point defense laser a structure that's in the shape of 2 parenthases together, like this:

( )

There's a space in-between them and nothing else touches them. There's only one of these structures on this side. It makes no sense that there'd be a shit load of them on the other side.

But there is this one blurb that says "Brim notches improves clearance of cannons and shield circulation". The blurb points to a section of the hull that doesn't have any of those rectangles sticking up. Are we to think that the other laser cannons have hull coverage that moves to the side and they move out on hydrulics? Not necessarily because there are the heavy turbolasers on the top of the ship and it makes infinately more logic for the notches to talk about that than referring to some kind of hidden weapon ports.

The Venator is the one with 14 dual laser cannons on each side.

Edit: I just checked the sw.com's databank and it mentions the 24 cannons in the EU section, but it doesn't say where they are.

Post by **Mike DiCenso** » Sun Jul 08, 2007 10:32 pm

The ISD sidewall trench detail is seen very nicely in these photos from the Cloudster model reference site:

http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/ ... yer041.jpg

Compare the image above with the high-res screencap from AoTC, and you'll see there are a number of simularities as well as differences. There are also a number of gun tubs, however where we see light and medium TLs firing from in TESB and later in ROTJ, there are no descernable gun barrels or other obvious weapons-related structures.
-Mike

Who is like God arbour · Post by **Who is like God arbour** » Mon Jul 09, 2007 5:40 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:The ISD sidewall trench detail is seen very nicely in these photos from the Cloudster model reference site:

http://www.cloudster.com/Sets&Vehicles/ ... yer041.jpg

Compare the image above with the high-res screencap from AoTC, and you'll see there are a number of simularities as well as differences. There are also a number of gun tubs, however where we see light and medium TLs firing from in TESB and later in ROTJ, there are no descernable gun barrels or other obvious weapons-related structures.
-Mike

Conclusion?

Post by **Mike DiCenso** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 12:18 am

A conclusion? I'am not sure that you can draw anything from the evidence shown, except that on the ISDs, there are TL guns that are hidden away inside the sidewall trench structure. The same could be true as well for the Acclamator TLs.
-Mike

GStone · Post by **GStone** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:09 am

In the Acclamator ICS image there's this thing behind the "( )" structure that looks like it could be a garage door, but there's still just the one per side.

Who is like God arbour · Post by **Who is like God arbour** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 5:00 am

OK, the conclusion would be, that an Acclamator has no heavy turbo laser turrets, what would mean, that it has no heavy turbo lasers.

The question now would be, if it has common turbo lasers, quad lasers or other weapons.

In the movie, the Acclamator hasn't fired one single shot. But that doesn't have to mean, that it is totally unarmed.

But what are the indications, that the Acclamator has weapons?
- I know only, and that only from hearsay, from the Star Wars Episode II Incredible Cross-Sections. But that was wrong regarding the heavy turbo lasers.
- - Does that mean, that it is disqualified regarding the other weapons of an Acclamator too?
    - I think: Yes. The Star Wars Episode II Incredible Cross-Sections has gambled away its reliability. It has shown, that the author has not considered the movies, as he should have - and has made up some fancy values. Why should I believe him in other aspects?
  - Are there other indications, that an Acclamator has weapons?
    - I don't know any.
Is it implausible, that an Acclamator has no weapons?
- I think: No. The Acclamator seems to be a troop-carrier. The most troop-ships on earth aren't armed. Why should I believe, that an Acclamator is armed?

Praeothmin · Post by **Praeothmin** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 2:12 pm

As I had stated in an earlier thread, and as 2046 (Darkstar) has shown us on his website, Curtis Saxton, in an interview on TF.net stated that when he did the ICS, he didn't have all the movie's footage, in fact he had to finish the book 14 months before the movie was completely done, so he went mostly with concept designs, unfinished art in some cases, and very few actual SFX shots from the movie.

Mr. Oragahn · Post by **Mr. Oragahn** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 7:07 pm

Lately, I've seen the "concealed turrets" argument fly around, with weapons which could fold out or slide out, or something, does anyone know where it comes from?

Flectarn · Post by **Flectarn** » Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:01 pm

Didn't the Trade Federation ships pull a trick like that in Phantom Menace?

There's also the fixed gun emplacements we see in Revenge of the Sith, presumably those would be concealed during non-combat operations