The 1.5 megaton myth

[Praeothmin]

Nah. The flak burst shells themselves could have had oxygen in them. Hence why you still see explosions in battles that are indisputably in space; the oxygen in the ships fuel the fires.

Ok, so you're comparing flak bursts creating black smoke in atmosphere to explosions from ships with actual people living in them, needing oxygen, and power coursing through them?
Great then, I guess you won't have any problems providing evidence the flak bursts from my link are similar to the explosions we see in space when ships are hit?

[Mr. Oragahn]

Tell him that metal reflects light, and therefore can redirect something like the intensity of the local star at atmospheric altitude more or less towards the planet - that's why they use mirrors in the EU btw, and that's how IRL you can spot satellites at night - nothing to do with exhaust - and energy bolts in the movies are obviously considerably dimmer than sunlight as seen in the same movie. As I said, even HTL bolts flying from one side of the screen to the other side during the battle, the kind that were moving like a couple kilometers away in the background, were already barely visible (we know they're HTL bolts because they're, err... fired from HTL cannons!)
In all that time he's been banned, this outrageous extrusion of pus didn't even load a tape or watch the movie to acknowledge that. How much time did he have again? A month or two, or more? You'll excuse me, SWST tends to collect so many bans these days that I cannot keep track of his latest ban's duration.
His next amusement trick? Claim that Coruscanti rooftops are so high that they'd allow all sorts of bolts to be easily seen. LOLROFL. Yeah, I suppose that's why there's not a single mention of buildings being like hundreds of kilometers high on Coruscant.
The waste of time! If this fool would switch his brain on, or stop trolling, his nonsense would stop right there, because the points I made are really nothing hard to compute. I'm merely posting this as a reminder, a display of the kind of bullshit SWST dares pulling since day one.
I guess he's doing his best and still needs a bit more time to understand how things work here, so one day he may genuinely make more constructive and smart observations upon which we could generate some of those adorable peaceful debates we so crave. :)
Ding Dong?
If you guys want to report his crap, be my guests, cause I'm surely not moving a single finger.
And nice necrotroll, btw. :|

[StarWarsStarTrek]

SWST tends to collect so many bans these days that I cannot keep track of his latest ban's duration.

Hey Mr. Oragapiss, why haven't you responded to any of my PMs on spacebattles?

Oh, right, you were perm-banned, weren't you? God, what is the disparity between the cumulative length of all of my bans here, times 10^3432, and yours?

Right. A sideways eight.

To quote the imperial wiki:

Mr. Oragahn

An unremarkable idiot inhabiting the StarfleetJedi forums. He insists he isn't a trekkie in spite of his mindless copying many of the idiotic ideas spouted by Darkstar, JMSpock, Mike DiCenso and tjhairball. In all fairness, he does appear to be more of a Stargate wanker rather than a true trektard.

[Mr. Oragahn]

SWST tends to collect so many bans these days that I cannot keep track of his latest ban's duration.

Hey Mr. Oragapiss, why haven't you responded to any of my PMs on spacebattles?

I might be able to verify that if I knew who the heck you were at SBC.

Oh, right, you were perm-banned, weren't you?

Being permabanned at SBC doesn't preclude the use of PMs, you douche.

God, what is the disparity between the cumulative length of all of my bans here, times 10^3432, and yours?

Right. A sideways eight.

To quote the imperial wiki:

Mr. Oragahn

An unremarkable idiot inhabiting the StarfleetJedi forums. He insists he isn't a trekkie in spite of his mindless copying many of the idiotic ideas spouted by Darkstar, JMSpock, Mike DiCenso and tjhairball. In all fairness, he does appear to be more of a Stargate wanker rather than a true trektard.

Oh.
I'm hit.
You've defeated ALL my past and future arguments.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Hey, if you actually want to debate the arguments, and not the man, be my guest. But your entire ramble gloats over the fact that I have been banned from SFJ before, while ignoring the fact that you were permanently banned from spacebattles! Pot, kettle, black, anyone?

[Mr. Oragahn]

Hey, if you actually want to debate the arguments, and not the man, be my guest. But your entire ramble gloats over the fact that I have been banned from SFJ before, while ignoring the fact that you were permanently banned from spacebattles! Pot, kettle, black, anyone?

So that should be supposed to demonstrate something of importance, by chance?
This is SFJN, not SBC, SDN or else. What happens here is what matters, and I only got into trouble for harsh words here, not disrespect of the fundamental goal of this forum, nor because of abusing argumentation fallacies. That seems fairly logical and simple. We have our standards, they have theirs. Now may you change your disc some time?

[Praeothmin]

Hey, SWST, why not address my request from proof, instead of trying to avoid it as usual?

[StarWarsStarTrek]

So that should be supposed to demonstrate something of importance, by chance?
This is SFJN, not SBC, SDN or else. What happens here is what matters, and I only got into trouble for harsh words here, not disrespect of the fundamental goal of this forum, nor because of abusing argumentation fallacies. That seems fairly logical and simple. We have our standards, they have theirs. Now may you change your disc some time?

So in other words, the validity of one's argument is based on the arbitrary popular opinion of the board that he or she is inhabiting at the time. Therefore, it is completely reasonable to center your entire argument on the opposition's arguments "has been thoroughly debunked, and discredited by most SFJ members".

Hey, SWST, why not address my request from proof, instead of trying to avoid it as usual?

You are shifting burden of proof here. I am not the one attempting to quantify the explosions and detonations witnessed in the battle of Coruscant; you are. You also seem to be under the impression that a flak round wouldn't contain any oxygen within it, even though doing so would actually increase its destructive capability by allowing it to create a fireball.

[Praeothmin]

You are shifting burden of proof here. I am not the one attempting to quantify the explosions and detonations witnessed in the battle of Coruscant; you are. You also seem to be under the impression that a flak round wouldn't contain any oxygen within it, even though doing so would actually increase its destructive capability by allowing it to create a fireball.

No no no, my dishonest friend, YOU said the flak burst smoke in high atmospshere in RotS and the fiery explosions seen in space in all other movies were the same, YOU have to show they are not...

I said the reason they are in an atmosphere is because of the smoke (for which I provided a link to RotS's first battle where we see the smoke) , YOU said the smoke and the fiery effects were the same, and as always tried to shift the burden of proof so you could once again evade trying to provide proof for your bullshit...

[StarWarsStarTrek]

YOU said the flak burst smoke in high atmospshere in RotS and the fiery explosions seen in space in all other movies were the same, YOU have to show they are not...
I said the reason they are in an atmosphere is because of the smoke (for which I provided a link to RotS's first battle where we see the smoke) , YOU said the smoke and the fiery effects were the same, and as always tried to shift the burden of proof so you could once again evade trying to provide proof for your bullshit...

Since you completely fail to comprehend the entire point of my earlier argument; that the presence of black smoke simply indicates that the flak rounds themselves contained oxygen, I'll direct you to the wise words of Obi Wan Kenobi:

We're in the atmosphere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4copDt_ ... ure=relmfu

3:45.

Good day to you.

EDIT: I was going to leave it at this, but I'd figure that you might not understand the implications of Kenobi's words, or even assume that this quote substantiates your own position. The point is that, after falling for quite some time, what appears to be an altitude measurement is given, and then Obi Wan is prompted to state that they are in the atmosphere, at which point Anakin, as a direct response to this, tells him to steady the ship.

[Praeothmin]

To which I would reply:
Which layer?
Good day to you... :)

[StarWarsStarTrek]

To which I would reply:
Which layer?
Good day to you... :)

What the fuck? Obi Wan mentions that they are entering the atmosphere. The very obvious implication is that they weren't in the atmosphere before. Had they already been in Coruscant's thermosphere, and were merely entering the stratosphere, Obi Wan would have stated "we're in the stratosphere."

It's as if I were to provide you a quote in which Obi Wan, over comn, says "ok, I am in the building now", and you ever stubbornly respond "well, maybe he was in the building already, and is merely entering an inner layer of it". *rolls eyes and restrains incredulous laughter*.

[Mr. Oragahn]

So that should be supposed to demonstrate something of importance, by chance?
This is SFJN, not SBC, SDN or else. What happens here is what matters, and I only got into trouble for harsh words here, not disrespect of the fundamental goal of this forum, nor because of abusing argumentation fallacies. That seems fairly logical and simple. We have our standards, they have theirs. Now may you change your disc some time?

So in other words, the validity of one's argument is based on the arbitrary popular opinion of the board that he or she is inhabiting at the time.

Yes, totally arbitrary.

Therefore, it is completely reasonable to center your entire argument on the opposition's arguments "has been thoroughly debunked, and discredited by most SFJ members".

Whatever. This is reason. You can't dodge it. In a way, the reason here is precursor to any good argument, in the prospect of seeing one newcomer displaying a certain will to challenge old ideas with fresh ones. You can, however, reverse that but then you keep complaining.

[General Donner]

His next amusement trick? Claim that Coruscanti rooftops are so high that they'd allow all sorts of bolts to be easily seen. LOLROFL. Yeah, I suppose that's why there's not a single mention of buildings being like hundreds of kilometers high on Coruscant.

Technically, their skyhooks might qualify. They're essentially space stations, but some include space elevators.

Of course, that wasn't what SWST was thinking about.

[Praeothmin]

To which I would reply:
Which layer?
Good day to you... :)

What the fuck? Obi Wan mentions that they are entering the atmosphere. The very obvious implication is that they weren't in the atmosphere before. Had they already been in Coruscant's thermosphere, and were merely entering the stratosphere, Obi Wan would have stated "we're in the stratosphere."

It's as if I were to provide you a quote in which Obi Wan, over comn, says "ok, I am in the building now", and you ever stubbornly respond "well, maybe he was in the building already, and is merely entering an inner layer of it". *rolls eyes and restrains incredulous laughter*.

Except, unlike buildings, the planetary atmopshere has well defined, different boundaries that a lot of people don't know about, or think about, that are all part of the "atmosphere"...
And there is still the issue of the black smoke flak bursts, which you claim have "oxygen in them", except do you realize how much oxygen there would need to be in these flak bursts to create the kind of clouds?
Plus, I'd like for you to expand on this:
What's the goal of this "oxygen rich" flak bursts?
Those bursts are anti-vehicule weapons, why would they need oxygen in them?

But hey, ok, I'll take Obi-Wan's statement at face value, because he says so, and so TDiC becomes fully valid, because the characters said that 30% of the crust was destroyed in the initial volley, which blows the ICS numbers up in... smoke... :)