Vaders fleet from Empire vs DS9

[Admiral Breetai]

during the Dominion war era, DS9 refit and ready for a siege

scenario 1: When the Dominion controlled DS9 with it's Cardassian (lol) attachment of ships and the Dominion cruisers and bugs

Scenario 2: Federation controlled with the usual compliment of alliance ships present ( a couple warbirds BOP's and The little D and the usual excelsior/ Akiras)

[Praeothmin]

Vader's fleet loses both engagements, but with greater losses from the defenders in scenario one, due to Cardassian ships being a bit weaker than Federation ones...

[sonofccn]

This really doesn't seem fair. You're throwing about six ships, granted the Executer is big, against what seems to be a similar number of ships plus a heavily fortified space station. The Defiant alone is going to be a killer.

Anyway the best idea I was given to "take" the station, which is the core objective of the parameters, would be to drop the ISDs in system some distance from the station. Advance at a normal pace, issuing the standard challenges, towards its engaging with the defending ships before turning tail and retreating at sublight.

Then drop in the Executer, emptied of personell and such before hand, as close to the station as possible traveling at maximum acceleration straight into DS9. Then pop the reactor(s). With luck at the cost of one humongous warship you will have taken out the lynchpin of the Enemy's defense in the system. Anyhow thats what I got.

[Trinoya]

To be fair, the Executor could just run over DS9... defenses and all, the ship has to be able to survive pushing its own mass around, which is pretty damn impressive.

DS9 is generally a sitting duck, and I'd give the executor (for once) the maneuverability advantage.

It'd be damage from the impact and the barrage it takes as it zooms on in... but at the end of the day it's gonna run over the station, and run over it good.

[Admiral Breetai]

The station can move around guys

and I thought there was more to the fleet then six ISD's

[Trinoya]

Iirc the station, while certainly able to move isn't 'normally' capable of doing so at the speeds required for it to much matter. In fact, just trying to move it the first time in the shows first episode nearly destroyed the entire station and they had to alter their shields to lighten the entire mass of the station to do it.

[Mike DiCenso]

Actually, moving the station on it's own was possible, but what the mass-lightening trick did was to reduce the station's mass so that it could travel far faster than normal on the few remaining thrusters it had left to it, and thus beat out the Cardassians to the wormhole.
-Mike

[Trinoya]

As I said, I recognize that it CAN movie, I just doubt it can move at the speeds required to dodge in time.

[Praeothmin]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be able to move fast enough to dodge the SSD, but then Vader would be dead, and the SW fleet would be out one big fragging ship...

[Lucky]

Any of the ships could take out DS9 if they were willing to ram it while activating their hyperdrive.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

What, Breetai, is the point of making multiple copies of "SW fleet vs ST fleet" with completely irrelevant variations over and over again?

Vader's fleet microjumps a few million kilometers away, well outside of the range of Trek ships, and bombards DS9 until it is destroyed. Since DS9 is a (relatively) stationary target, there is no range issue. Since Trek ships IN FUCKING COMBAT never move at more than a few kilometers per second, they can't reach the fleet in any reasonable amount of time, nor can they magically intercept the moon destroying (FOTJ: Ascension) baradium warheads the fleet could be loaded with because they don't use their missile-shooting-down powers to reliably hit slow moving fighters IN ACTUAL CANON.

Since the Lando Calrissian novels establish that cruisers can have equipped on them "continent destroying hellhounds", presumably the freaking Executor would be equipped with even more powerful than tiny cruisers. And since the Executor has the shield heat dissipation of "a medium sized star", and imperial star destroyers can turn planets' surfaces to molten slag (figurative or literal is still > durability of DS9) and wipe out all natural resources on a planet (including oil deposits at the bottom of the ocean)...

And since, unlike Trek, SW vessels have shown to actually use high acceleration manuvers on the tactical level...

The Falcon approaching the Death Star in ANH
The Death Star circumnavigating Yavin (in this context, whether you think that the Death Star used magic mass lightening techniques is irrelevant)
The ISDs circumnavigating Endor in seconds in RotJ
The Falcon escaping the Death Star's destruction in RotJ
Too many EU examples to reference...such as tactical manuvers in battle involving circumnavigating planets and going below the star system's plane on a whim, or X wing fighters doing attack runs at relativistic speeds

...the ISD's can keep on backpedaling so that the hulking ST vessels never catch up with them and sending starfighters (each potentially equipped with thermonuclear warheads) to harrass them.

And before you scream "warp!", the borg cube advancing towards Earth could really have benefited from a micro-warp, couldn't it?

[Praeothmin]

Mike, the Troll is trolling again, ignoring evidence which was shown to him many times, indicating his wanking is false:

Vader's fleet microjumps a few million kilometers away, well outside of the range of Trek ships, and bombards DS9 until it is destroyed. Since DS9 is a (relatively) stationary target, there is no range issue. Since Trek ships IN FUCKING COMBAT never move at more than a few kilometers per second, they can't reach the fleet in any reasonable amount of time, nor can they magically intercept the moon destroying (FOTJ: Ascension) baradium warheads the fleet could be loaded with because they don't use their missile-shooting-down powers to reliably hit slow moving fighters IN ACTUAL CANON.

It is clear he will never learn anything...

[sonofccn]

What, Breetai, is the point of making multiple copies of "SW fleet vs ST fleet" with completely irrelevant variations over and over again?

Because this is a versus board focusing on ST and SW? I thought this was the point of all of us posting here? Besides I find the various scenarios fun and amusing.

Vader's fleet microjumps a few million kilometers away, well outside of the range of Trek ships, and bombards DS9 until it is destroyed.

I have shown you an ISD spraying and praying against the Tantiv IV at point blank range engaging in zero manuvers. At millions of klicks anything would come within a country mile of the Fed position.

Since Trek ships IN FUCKING COMBAT never move at more than a few kilometers per second, they can't reach the fleet in any reasonable amount of time

Watch the language, it isn't called for, and I suppose the ships will just leave their engines idling and turn off warpdrive to let you win right?

nor can they magically intercept the moon destroying (FOTJ: Ascension) baradium warheads the fleet could be loaded with because they don't use their missile-shooting-down powers to reliably hit slow moving fighters IN ACTUAL CANON

Sigh not only do you feel the need to pull out special munitions to try and steal some victory but once more lets review
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... rum288.jpg

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... rum289.jpg

http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... rum290.jpg

This occures over a span of (IIRC)five seconds and is what happens when a squadron of weakly shielded drone-ships gets near a Galaxy class starship. Your example involves a Federation Tactical Figher which likely has shield strenght comparable to a Runabout which has been demostrated on these boards can take a few blows from a Dominon Bug fighter and not blow into gibblets so unless these magic missiles have protection rated on capitol ship scale they are target practice.

And I've already spent more time than I should have on this repeat so I'm done with it.

[Admiral Breetai]

snip for sheer mind numbing nonsense

\
want some windex for your computer screen after that? a cigarette too?

that aside: can you prove to me that DS9 couldn't just activate it's thrusters and chase down the Executor while hurling photon torpedoes left and right? I mean given the movies show SW vessels are extremely slow and all

[Picard]

Vader's fleet microjumps a few million kilometers away, well outside of the range of Trek ships, and bombards DS9 until it is destroyed.

Last time I checked, DS9 isfar smaller than average Earth-type planet, which is about only thing Star Wars ships could even hope to hit from that distance. Besides, if you take 4 million kilometers, DS9 has entire hour to move out of position before bolts hit.

Since Trek ships IN FUCKING COMBAT never move at more than a few kilometers per second,

Phoenix moved at double digit thousands of kilometers per second when fighting Cardassians. Much higher speeds are possible, but that seems to be maximum desireable speed. TOS shows several examples of warp combat.

Besides, Star Wars ships never move than few kilometers per second, period.

Since the Lando Calrissian novels establish that cruisers can have equipped on them "continent destroying hellhounds",

You didn't show how these work, and they are never shown or implied in canon, and existence and usage of Death Stars contradict notion of that outright.

And since the Executor has the shield heat dissipation of "a medium sized star", and imperial star destroyers can turn planets' surfaces to molten slag

Contradicted by canon, unless you want to say that Vader's fleet spent several centuries in Hoth asteroid field.

And since, unlike Trek, SW vessels have shown to actually use high acceleration manuvers on the tactical level...

Star Trek has shown it too. But it generally doesn't really help against similar-technology ships (Picard manouver being sole exception).

The Falcon approaching the Death Star in ANH
The Death Star circumnavigating Yavin (in this context, whether you think that the Death Star used magic mass lightening techniques is irrelevant)
The ISDs circumnavigating Endor in seconds in RotJ
The Falcon escaping the Death Star's destruction in RotJ

Death Star display is in contradiction with Rebel display.

Circumnavigation of Endor is ambigious at best. We are never told how Imperial fleet got where it was - was it always there (as movie implies) or did it circumnavigate Endor (as movie novel says).

Falcon, we have cuts, and we don't know how much time is being left off. Shown velocities are few kilometers per second at best.