Challenge: Invade the Star Wars galaxy

[sonofccn]

It's especially important since SWST's OP removes all restrictions from warp drive.

SWSt appears to have meant things like the Galactic barrier. If I misunderstood him I do apologize.

[Mike DiCenso]

^^

That was Season 3, "Destiny." The comet was actually quite small, given the distribution of the phaser pulses hitting it, and the fact that the ~5 meter Defiant shuttle just barely fits between the resultant fragments. The Defiant opened fire at 10 kilometers from it.

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... ny_454.jpg

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... ny_524.jpg

If anything, "Destiny" is another low end, not that it matters much.

The phasers only fragmented it because the modifications that would have allowed the phasers to evenly vaporize it had been sabotaged by one of the Cardassians. Anyway, here's two better pics that help scale the comet to the Defiant:





The last image is one just as the bolts are hitting. Now the Defiant is about 90 meters wide, so the distribution indicates an 80 meter rough seperation between the bolt sets. Now in the image of the impact, the phaser bolt set is .22" wide while the comet itself is about 3.18" wide. This means a ratio of 14.45:1. So 14.45 x 80 = 1,156 meters diameter.

Now even in this mode, the phasers vaporized a significant chunk of the comet nucleus' mass leaving only fragments of about 5-10 meters diameter based on the shuttle's size compared to them. That's well over 95% vaporized. Running the numbers through Wong's calculator, you get 492 megatons as the vaporization energies, assuming normal ice composition.

So that's pretty damn impressive firepower, actually.
-Mike

[Cocytus]

That is a much better shot. Thanks.

[Mike DiCenso]

It's especially important since SWST's OP removes all restrictions from warp drive.

SWSt appears to have meant things like the Galactic barrier. If I misunderstood him I do apologize.

Perhaps a clarification is order over what is ment by "All barriers to both warp and hyperdrive are removed".
-Mike

[StarWarsStarTrek]

It's especially important since SWST's OP removes all restrictions from warp drive.

SWSt appears to have meant things like the Galactic barrier. If I misunderstood him I do apologize.

Perhaps a clarification is order over what is ment by "All barriers to both warp and hyperdrive are removed".
-Mike

Obviously, I did not mean that both systems of FTL had no speed restrictions, as that would imply infinite speed. I meant that hyperlanes are no longer a problem and the warp barrier is no longer a problem.

[Mike DiCenso]

What warp barrier? And if you remove hyperlanes, which are a navigational issue for hyperdrive and a fundemental aspect of it's mechanics, why not do the same for Trek warp drive? As I pointed out earlier, warp drive can go very fast when good navigational data about the space being travelled in is available. So it seems like you are trying to cripple Trek here while removing the restraints on Wars.
-Mike

[Admiral Breetai]

so SWST why are you ignoring the various multi galactic trips big E captains have made? Why are you ignoring Defiant fire power being superior to anything shown in the only eu that matters and in the films?

[sonofccn]

Sector Groups (Total): 3,200 mobile deepdocks, 192,000 very heavy repair ships; 3,616,000 noncombatant resupply ships; 384,000 torpedo spheres; 45,395,200 Corvettes/Gunships/Light Frigates 101-449 meters long; 19,043,200 heavy frigates/light destroyers 450-1,000 meters long; 128,000 heavy Destroyers 1,001- 1,600 meters long.
The SW: WEG is an OOU source while the 25,000 ship quote was from the PoV from a 3rd person limited narrator. These are specific figures/statistics, while your quote was clearly an estimate and contained less significant figures.

Which Sourcebook exactly is this from? Because the first thing I get searching for it is this. Which appears to be a fanmade fleet calculation not a West End Games production. Sorry for the inconvience, merely trying to straighten out which source, and edition in case of editorial changes, so I can more properly look at what you are showing me.

[Praeothmin]

Yup, it is a fanmade calculation, made by Dalton, one of SDN's Warsie resident, and current Admin of the site if I'm not mistaken...

You can immediately see that, even if he states that his calc comes from Canon material, he then assumes maximum number of ships, assumes that the Empire can build such a fleet, because he assumes that the DS project takes no amount of ressources, and that the project barely dents the Imperial's budget... :)

I see a lot of ASSumptions in there... ;)

[Mike DiCenso]

One thnig I've noticed where SWST is concerned is that he (or she) has difficultly distinguishing between fan made calculations and material, and official canon. Take for example his (or her) mistaking the fan made photoshop picture of the Battle of Wolf 395, or the YouTube fan video that combined canon DS9 material with that of other franchise's footage to create a Dominion bombardment of Earth.
-Mike

[Picard]

And both examples are from Star Trek, and thus can be attributed to his general lack of knowledge about franchise.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Sector Groups (Total): 3,200 mobile deepdocks, 192,000 very heavy repair ships; 3,616,000 noncombatant resupply ships; 384,000 torpedo spheres; 45,395,200 Corvettes/Gunships/Light Frigates 101-449 meters long; 19,043,200 heavy frigates/light destroyers 450-1,000 meters long; 128,000 heavy Destroyers 1,001- 1,600 meters long.
The SW: WEG is an OOU source while the 25,000 ship quote was from the PoV from a 3rd person limited narrator. These are specific figures/statistics, while your quote was clearly an estimate and contained less significant figures.

Which Sourcebook exactly is this from? Because the first thing I get searching for it is this. Which appears to be a fanmade fleet calculation not a West End Games production. Sorry for the inconvience, merely trying to straighten out which source, and edition in case of editorial changes, so I can more properly look at what you are showing me.

From what I can tell, Dalton is quoting the SW: WEG. That would explain why he has the text formatted differently and attributes it to the WEG. The alternative is that he's pulling shit out of his ass, but I doubt it.

[sonofccn]

Sector Groups (Total): 3,200 mobile deepdocks, 192,000 very heavy repair ships; 3,616,000 noncombatant resupply ships; 384,000 torpedo spheres; 45,395,200 Corvettes/Gunships/Light Frigates 101-449 meters long; 19,043,200 heavy frigates/light destroyers 450-1,000 meters long; 128,000 heavy Destroyers 1,001- 1,600 meters long.
The SW: WEG is an OOU source while the 25,000 ship quote was from the PoV from a 3rd person limited narrator. These are specific figures/statistics, while your quote was clearly an estimate and contained less significant figures.

Which Sourcebook exactly is this from? Because the first thing I get searching for it is this. Which appears to be a fanmade fleet calculation not a West End Games production. Sorry for the inconvience, merely trying to straighten out which source, and edition in case of editorial changes, so I can more properly look at what you are showing me.

From what I can tell, Dalton is quoting the SW: WEG. That would explain why he has the text formatted differently and attributes it to the WEG. The alternative is that he's pulling shit out of his ass, but I doubt it.

He's not quoting sources. He refrences them nontransparently as he makes various calculations based upon several assumptions. The numbers, the numbers you gave me, are the product of his work not a sourcebook. Now perhaps the WEG books support him completely, maybe it is completely hundred percent backed by canon, but he doesn't provide any of it to know. None of the evidence which made him make the assumptions he did.

[Mr. Oragahn]

^^

That was Season 3, "Destiny." The comet was actually quite small, given the distribution of the phaser pulses hitting it, and the fact that the ~5 meter Defiant shuttle just barely fits between the resultant fragments. The Defiant opened fire at 10 kilometers from it.

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... ny_454.jpg

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... ny_524.jpg

If anything, "Destiny" is another low end, not that it matters much.

The phasers only fragmented it because the modifications that would have allowed the phasers to evenly vaporize it had been sabotaged by one of the Cardassians. Anyway, here's two better pics that help scale the comet to the Defiant:





The last image is one just as the bolts are hitting. Now the Defiant is about 90 meters wide, so the distribution indicates an 80 meter rough seperation between the bolt sets. Now in the image of the impact, the phaser bolt set is .22" wide while the comet itself is about 3.18" wide. This means a ratio of 14.45:1. So 14.45 x 80 = 1,156 meters diameter.

Now even in this mode, the phasers vaporized a significant chunk of the comet nucleus' mass leaving only fragments of about 5-10 meters diameter based on the shuttle's size compared to them. That's well over 95% vaporized. Running the numbers through Wong's calculator, you get 492 megatons as the vaporization energies, assuming normal ice composition.

So that's pretty damn impressive firepower, actually.
-Mike

It's above all very odd, as usual with phasers.
I fortunately had saved the video clip from youtube before it got taken off.

First of all, the bolts are focused, more on the x axis than y. We see that because of their position in the geometric form one can draw as they're headed for the target. Which means that your calculation is probably quite off. By the look of it, the width between the two vertical pairs of bolts seem to be half of what it is when fired.

Secondly, the effects at the point of impact are very tame. There's clearly not even a kiloton worth of DET delivered on the surface. After a while, the matter at the point of impact begins to slowly crack, shine and then the whole object goes off in a chain reaction.
Not to say that there's no way to ascertain how much matter was truly vaporized at all.

[Lucky]

^^

That was Season 3, "Destiny." The comet was actually quite small, given the distribution of the phaser pulses hitting it, and the fact that the ~5 meter Defiant shuttle just barely fits between the resultant fragments. The Defiant opened fire at 10 kilometers from it.

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... ny_454.jpg

http://ds9.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/ ... ny_524.jpg

If anything, "Destiny" is another low end, not that it matters much.

The phasers only fragmented it because the modifications that would have allowed the phasers to evenly vaporize it had been sabotaged by one of the Cardassians. Anyway, here's two better pics that help scale the comet to the Defiant:





The last image is one just as the bolts are hitting. Now the Defiant is about 90 meters wide, so the distribution indicates an 80 meter rough seperation between the bolt sets. Now in the image of the impact, the phaser bolt set is .22" wide while the comet itself is about 3.18" wide. This means a ratio of 14.45:1. So 14.45 x 80 = 1,156 meters diameter.
Now even in this mode, the phasers vaporized a significant chunk of the comet nucleus' mass leaving only fragments of about 5-10 meters diameter based on the shuttle's size compared to them. That's well over 95% vaporized. Running the numbers through Wong's calculator, you get 492 megatons as the vaporization energies, assuming normal ice composition.

So that's pretty damn impressive firepower, actually.
-Mike

It's above all very odd, as usual with phasers.
I fortunately had saved the video clip from youtube before it got taken off.

First of all, the bolts are focused, more on the x axis than y. We see that because of their position in the geometric form one can draw as they're headed for the target. Which means that your calculation is probably quite off. By the look of it, the width between the two vertical pairs of bolts seem to be half of what it is when fired.

Secondly, the effects at the point of impact are very tame. There's clearly not even a kiloton worth of DET delivered on the surface. After a while, the matter at the point of impact begins to slowly crack, shine and then the whole object goes off in a chain reaction.
Not to say that there's no way to ascertain how much matter was truly vaporized at all.

DAX: Its core contains unusually high concentrations of silithium. That's why its tail is so bright
...

SISKO: That is, of course, an internal Cardassian matter. Chief, Dax feels that we can't risk using tractor beams to deflect the comet. 

DAX: It would probably into smaller pieces and we'd have a bigger mess on our hands. 

GILORA: The same thing would happen if you tried to destroy it with a phaser beam. 

O'BRIEN: Not necessarily. I could modify the Defiant's phaser array to generate a beam wide enough to encompass the entire comet. 

ULANI: Vaporising it evenly so it won't break up.
...

DAX: The comet is directly ahead. Distance, two hundred kilometres. 

SISKO: Bring us to within ten kilometres. Chief, are your phaser modifications online? 

O'BRIEN: Aye, sir. Phasers are locked on target. 

DAX: Holding position at ten kilometres. 

SISKO: Shields up. Go to Red Alert. Fire. 

(Bang on the Bridge!) 

SISKO: Chief, what the hell happened? 

O'BRIEN: I don't know, sir. The entire weapons relay just blew. All defensive systems are down. 

DAX: Benjamin, sensors show that the modified phasers never came online. We fired a standard burst and it shattered the comet instead of vapourising it. 

O'BRIEN: There's no way they should have misfired like that. I modified the systems myself.

The comet has unusually high concentrations of something called.

The phaser burst was the standard burst.