The Romulan Star Empire and The Ferengi vs the republic

[Admiral Breetai]

The Romulans and The Ferengi will be sported slipstream capability for this. They begin surveying the galaxy around 100 BBY, both sides begin making preparations for moving into the Galaxy. While the Romulans want to carve out their own empire in the Galaxy and begin amassing a warfleet to that effect (to this effect they've allied with the Chiss and conquered several unknown region systems) as well as making various political contacts and sending out spies and what have you.

The Ferengi decide on a more traditional route they're goal is to monopolize trade and commerce in the Galaxy and begin making preparations to this effect.

basically they goal is become a British East India Company of the stars.

around ten years before episode 1, both sides begin making their moves.

Stipulations: ICS and all technical manuals and data books are banned for both sides.

Hows this go?

[Mike DiCenso]

This pretty much is a cake walk for both Romulan and Ferengi alike. Not unless the Federation or someone intervenes. Slipstream, unlike hyperdrive and to a lesser extent transwarp, is not dependent on special conduits or excruciatingly well-mapped lanes. Once the Romulans and Ferengi see how easy it is to blockade planets and hyperspace routes, you'll just have the same situation as the Clone Wars all over again with sections of the Galactic Republic being cut off from one another.

Expect to see the Trade Federation get all upset when the Ferengi trash up their monoply. There are no Star Destroyers, or superweapons readily available as they are in 32 BBY to 0 BBY, and the Republic navy is nothing like what it is during the Clone Wars, so it may be years before they can get organized to fight.
-Mike

[Trinoya]

I'm gonna tentatively go with the side that doesn't get bankrupted from fielding a few million soldiers. Romulans wtfpwn.


However: If the ferangi wheel and deal enough to get into the republics good graces they might actually be able to fix the corrupted economic disaster of a nation that it is... If it could get somewhat organized and actually throw its industrial might around correctly... combining that with a few star trek techs (easily trade-able, such as replicators and transporters) then the republic could pose a credible threat given enough time, and eventually would stop the romulan advance (although they may not stomach retaking territory).

[Picard]

They will need a lot of technology to do it. They will need antimatter powerplants, antimatter production facilities, better sensors etc. Replicators and transoprters alone won't mean much. But once Republic adopts these technologies and organizes itself (and makes itself a decent military) I can see it becoming at least a stalemate (mind you, Republic will need time to develop a fleet, while Romulan supply lines will probably be overstretched).

[sonofccn]

Breetai you have to stop giving the Trek side slipstream drives. They make it way too easy.;)

As to the question itself I'd bet on the Ferengi pulling it off. They can likely appear nonthreatening, play off the more aggressive Romulan empire and in the end I think the Romulans will exhaust themselves from the conquest way before the tens of thousands of worlds of the Republic have been conqured.

As well while heavily corrupt and ineffiecent the Republic still should have the potencial for a raw industrial advantage and has demostrated it can build very big ships. The Trade Federation Lucrehulk warships/cargoships were quite big, three kilometers according to Wookiepedia. Thats a lot of space to jam in "low yield partical" weapons or small, nimble fighters loaded with fusion warheads. Out and out conquest like the Romulans appear to be planning won't be easy or at very least it won't be fast is all I'm trying to say.

[Admiral Breetai]

Breetai you have to stop giving the Trek side slipstream drives. They make it way too easy.;) ]

the alternate is being restricted by SW hyperdrive something that is only rivaled by the Dune universes spice based dependency for accurate FTL

or take years to go anywhere

As to the question itself I'd bet on the Ferengi pulling it off. They can likely appear nonthreatening, play off the more aggressive Romulan empire and in the end I think the Romulans will exhaust themselves from the conquest way before the tens of thousands of worlds of the Republic have been conqured.

that is true although The Romulans might be satisfied with an empire consisting of the outer rim worlds and some mid rim sectors and that's that? or too crazy arrogant for such a thing.

As well while heavily corrupt and ineffiecent the Republic still should have the potencial for a raw industrial advantage and has demostrated it can build very big ships. The Trade Federation Lucrehulk warships/cargoships were quite big, three kilometers according to Wookiepedia. Thats a lot of space to jam in "low yield partical" weapons or small, nimble fighters loaded with fusion warheads. Out and out conquest like the Romulans appear to be planning won't be easy or at very least it won't be fast is all I'm trying to say.

the Romulans are gonna fight the war the way they normally do they are IC so expect allot of back alley dealings and subterfuge and what have you before the first Volley is gonna be fired. As for the industrial edge I doubt it's massive despite being smaller then the Federation they managed to throw their industry and warfleet into the DW with enough numbers and fleets to be a serious contender. They also managed to secretly fill that moon on Bajor full of their weapons and shit with out any one knowing, so they're no slouches here either

They will need a lot of technology to do it. They will need antimatter powerplants, antimatter production facilities, better sensors etc. Replicators and transoprters alone won't mean much. But once Republic adopts these technologies and organizes itself (and makes itself a decent military) I can see it becoming at least a stalemate (mind you, Republic will need time to develop a fleet, while Romulan supply lines will probably be overstretched).

while the rest of the post is good, The Romulans aren't alone they have allies/vassals in the Chiss and have had for decades a beach head/colonies in the galaxy as per my OP - and both sides do have access to their home territory

one would think Supply lines wont be a problem until they get deeper into Republic territory then yeah it'll become a nightmare unless somethings done on it

[Picard]

one would think Supply lines wont be a problem until they get deeper into Republic territory then yeah it'll become a nightmare unless somethings done on it

Exactly my point.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Stipulations: ICS and all technical manuals and data books are banned for both sides.

You were not willing to let me allow the EU into a thread with characters that were from the EU, yet you wish to exert the same power in your threads?

This pretty much is a cake walk for both Romulan and Ferengi alike. Not unless the Federation or someone intervenes. Slipstream, unlike hyperdrive and to a lesser extent transwarp, is not dependent on special conduits or excruciatingly well-mapped lanes. Once the Romulans and Ferengi see how easy it is to blockade planets and hyperspace routes, you'll just have the same situation as the Clone Wars all over again with sections of the Galactic Republic being cut off from one another.

Expect to see the Trade Federation get all upset when the Ferengi trash up their monoply. There are no Star Destroyers, or superweapons readily available as they are in 32 BBY to 0 BBY, and the Republic navy is nothing like what it is during the Clone Wars, so it may be years before they can get organized to fight.
-Mike

What?

Let's actually analyze this instead of making a string of threads that will devolve into the same arguments.

Slipstream at its height is still far slower than hyperdrive. The Ferengi are less competent than the Voyager or ST:Enterprise crew, and neither they nor the Romulans match the industrial capacity of the Galactic Republic. If they are monopolizing trade, the Republic says 'screw you' to them and boots them out.

According to the G canon ROTS film-novel, there are quadrillions of citizens in the Republic; the Romulans are massively outnumbered by several orders of magnitude, they have no sustainable supply routes with travel times of several months, their entire armed forces would be outnumbered by a single sector fleet, and their entire ground based military lacks the numbers to take a single medium populated Star Wars planet.

The Ferengi fail as soon as the Republic notice their monopolizing of trade and boot them out.

The Romulans fail as soon as they get a fleet of millions of ships knocking on their doorstep.

And Mike, if you try and dispute the 'millions of ships' claim, I can just pull out a certain image of a certain very famous battlestation, and you'll have to claim that the Empire's industrial capability exceeds the Republic's by several orders of magnitude, and then you'll have to back that up.






And Tinoya, if you take the T canon claim that a few million clones would bankrupt a galactic society that routinely maintains mountain dwarfing, for example, then explain this:



And don't make the argument that the Empire somehow increased its industrial capacity to twelve orders of magnitude above the Republic.

[Praeothmin]

Slipstream at its height is still far slower than hyperdrive.

PROVE IT WITH EVIDENCE, LIKE NUMBERS AND CALCULATIONS!

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Slipstream at its height is still far slower than hyperdrive.

PROVE IT WITH EVIDENCE, LIKE NUMBERS AND CALCULATIONS!

I DID IN OUR LAST DEBATE, BUT YOU DROPPED OUT.

Maul traveled from Coruscant to Tatooine. He starts after Anakin and the crew are eating lunch, and arrives at dusk before the podrace, which was to take place a day after Anakin mentioned it, took place. Therefore, Maul traveled halfway across the galaxy in a matter of 6 or so hours.

[Praeothmin]

NO YOU DIDN'T...
YOU USED ONE, ONLY ONE OF THE CALCULATIONS I PROVIDED - WHILE YOU PROVIDED NONE - TO USE BULLSHIT ARGUMENTS SINCE YOU GAVE NO EVIDENCE OF THE SIZE OF THE SW GALAXY, IGNORED THE 440 000C SPEED I CALCULATED FOR SW, HAVE NOT ONCE PROVEN YOUR CLAIMED MILLIONS OF C FOR SW...

[StarWarsStarTrek]

NO YOU DIDN'T...
YOU USED ONE, ONLY ONE OF THE CALCULATIONS I PROVIDED - WHILE YOU PROVIDED NONE - TO USE BULLSHIT ARGUMENTS SINCE YOU GAVE NO EVIDENCE OF THE SIZE OF THE SW GALAXY, IGNORED THE 440 000C SPEED I CALCULATED FOR SW, HAVE NOT ONCE PROVEN YOUR CLAIMED MILLIONS OF C FOR SW...

1. Why are you using caps lock?
2. Did you even read the Maul feat I posted above?
3. The above calculation is using G canon evidence.
4. Said G canon evidence overrides your 440,000 C claim.

But you're probably going to notice that I didn't specify Maul's exact speed, because I figured that you could calculate it yourself, since I displayed all the variables and the formula is simple speed, but I'll calculate it. Coruscant is in the galactic core while Tatooine is on the outer rim, so we can assume distances of 5000 light years if we use a small 10,000 LY diameter for the SW galaxy. In 6 hours that would require speeds of 7.3 million C.

[Admiral Breetai]

why are you talking about millions of ships when none of that was shown on screen

[StarWarsStarTrek]

why are you talking about millions of ships when none of that was shown on screen

Because we see the Death Star on screen, and it's the size of millions of km long ships.

[sonofccn]

Let's actually analyze this instead of making a string of threads that will devolve into the same arguments.

The issue is that each of the componet arguments is well a complex argument that is a topic unto itself. To put this in very simple terms you can't argue who will win while simultationously arguing over how fast hyperdrive is, how powerful phasers are ect. Each of these is a complex topic with a plethera of evidence that must be presented, verified and counter-checked.

Slipstream at its height is still far slower than hyperdrive

Let's try this from the top. here at 11:28 we see the faux Dauntless enter the slipstream. at 12:00 we see the ship drop back into realspace and at 12:12 we learn the ship traveled over fifteen lightyears. Even assuming say five minutes have passed that we don't see, unlikely since the cuts back and to the away team seems to show them still in the same positions, we can work the following out.

15 lightyears every five minutes *12 to equal 180 lightyears an hour * 24 to equal 4320 lightyears a day * 7 to equal 30240 lightyears in a week * 4 to equal 120960 lightyears a month*12 to equal 1451520 lightyears a year. Ergo over a million c.
(yes I now the above is very crude and simplistic but it should be good enough for a rough aproximation.)

In the interest of honesty the phony message from starfleet expects them to manage a far slower speed crossing 60,000 lightyears in three months for a "slow speed" of somewhere over two hundred thousand c.

Conversly the only movie given distance, about three lightyears, has what hours up to maybe a day passing?

If they are monopolizing trade, the Republic says 'screw you' to them and boots them out.

Far easier said than done. You have the Romulans to contend with and likely don't want to ADD to your headaches, you have the force commitment required if you choose to anger the Grand Nagus as well as any friends and local alliances they've made in the time it took you to realize they've beem worming their way inside.

That is in addition to the Republic goverment, assuming the Romulans didn't torch the world as an opening bid, can get its collective act togather long enough to realize the threat and decide on a course of action. Something I'm dubious of, the senate struck me as a corrupt, decaying monolith not a smoothly running machine.

According to the G canon ROTS film-novel, there are quadrillions of citizens in the Republic

Cool quote? Sci-Fi writters rarely use the world quadrillion. They typically employ millions, the biggest number the average human can even paritally wrap thier mind around, as short hand for here be a lot of people.

their entire armed forces would be outnumbered by a single sector fleet

? The Romulans likely have in the rough nieghborhood of ten thousand warships. Just how many ships do you think are in a single sector fleet?

and their entire ground based military lacks the numbers to take a single medium populated Star Wars planet

That's quite an observation since we don't know how many ground pounders the Romulans employs, or really anything beyond Reman are used as shock troops, and I must ask you the ultimate question. What are you basing any of this off of?

The Romulans fail as soon as they get a fleet of millions of ships knocking on their doorstep.

Would it be wrong to assume that you have anything to back up this number?

I can just pull out a certain image of a certain very famous battlestation, and you'll have to claim that the Empire's industrial capability exceeds the Republic's by several orders of magnitude, and then you'll have to back that up.

Yeah. The Galactic Empire builds 1.5 deathstars over a twenty odd year period. Now lets take a look at what the hyper militant Empire fielded in terms of warships.

A thousand systems left, out of an Empire that had once spanned a million. Two hundred Star Destroyers remaining from a fleet that had once included over twenty-five thousand of them.

Only twenty-five thousand at its peak. Low double digits and these are the cream of the warfleet. Well the ISD is with the Victory and Venator stardestroyer being comparatively weaker than the big dog imperial but still not slouches.

Few starships inspire terror the way a Star Destroyer can. A symbol of the Empire's might and an instrument of its tyranny, the Imperial Star Destroyer is a dagger-shaped vessel of pure destruction. Armed with powerful weapons and nearly impregnable defenses, the Imperial Star Destroyer is a one-ship command platform that can be used to fill a variety of roles. Star Destroyers act as assault warships, planetary defenders, even escort vessels for extremely important ships."

During the height of the Empire, Star Destroyers were deployed in every sector, and some planets even have their own Star Destroyers assigned to them. The Imperial Fortress worlds of the Deep Core often had multiple Star Destroyers assigned to a single planet, and important planets such as Coruscant might have as many as a dozen Star Destroyers, if not more, in orbit at any given time. Unlike the Old Republic, the Empire built enough ships to extend its reach all the way to the Outer Rim, and multiple Star Destroyers patrolled the space lanes on a regular basis

ISDS are some of the biggest and meanest ships around and... the Empire fielded them maybe up to a dozen over important worlds. As well this is an Empire which has undergone a massive military buildup instead of the decaying Republic.

And before you try and claim I'm trying to overwrite G-cannon with C-cannon show me where in the movies multi-thousand warfleets abound or where it states the Death Star converts one hundred percent into its equivlent mass of Star Destroyers.