About me supposedly ignoring evidence

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

1. What are you talking about? Momentum =/= kinetic energy. The Death Star's energy requirements for its acceleration around Yavin is simple: mass * velocity^2. The velocity of the Death Star is quite clear, and the mass is too, although the Death Star's density could create a margin of error of a factor of a few, but not enough to significantly alter calculations. Prove that the Death Star's mass was lowered, or you're grasping at straws here.

2. Which is something called artificial gravity, and perhaps inertial dampening when it's accelerating. There is no evidence that this magically decreases the mass of the Death Star by any significant amount.

1. There is no "magic" about it so calling it that to Appeal to ridicule is just your attempt at yet another fallacy , inertial dampening is in effect and as such the conservation off momentum requires that the mass is altered.

2. We already know it has artificial gravity and it must have inertial dampening due to those on the inside as well as those outside on the hull not getting splattered against walls ect when it moves and as such the conservation of momentum requires mass lightening. Yet another example of inertial dampening reaching the hull and beyond the guys shooting at ships out of windows while the DS is approaching the planet so it is obviously moving and they are not suffering any effects from the acceleration.

But as per usual you are still trying to claim "sceince says so" for your propulsion calcs while ignoring that science also says that with the fact the DS and other SW ships have inertial dampening means that science says the mass must be altered.

Obviously the shields on the Enterprise recover over time.

We have plenty of examples of pre prometheus ships shields not regenerating like equinox ect but by all means provide your proof of the contrary.

However, I can concede the issue on power/shield relations

You have no choice due to the sheer amount of time they hump warp or other power from other areas into shields to boost them.

because:

RIKER VO: First Officer's log, supplemental. Mister La Forge has diverted power from auxiliary fusion generators in an attempt to stabilize the tractor beam. This is the only hope of increasing our towing speed so we can clear the asteroid belt before radiation levels become fatal.

Auxiliary generators are significant enough to be diverted to complement the main warp core. Therefore, aux power must be within an order of magnitude of main warp power.

Why must they?, because you say so?, prove it considering it was the tactor beam they were using. Not only that but considering the power requirements for high warp aux power should easily be able to propel them at low warp if you were correct.

Do you think that bolding silly accusations in every response makes your argument more logical?

Do you think making up bullshit and trolling will not be pointed out?.

Well maybe I performed the calculations wrong, but my calculations for the intensity of a supernova at 150,000 KM was a few dozen megajoules.

So now a SUPERNOVA at 150,000km = a few dozen MJ?.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

[Lucky]

1. What are you talking about? Momentum =/= kinetic energy. The Death Star's energy requirements for its acceleration around Yavin is simple: mass * velocity^2. The velocity of the Death Star is quite clear, and the mass is too, although the Death Star's density could create a margin of error of a factor of a few, but not enough to significantly alter calculations. Prove that the Death Star's mass was lowered, or you're grasping at straws here.

2. Which is something called artificial gravity, and perhaps inertial dampening when it's accelerating. There is no evidence that this magically decreases the mass of the Death Star by any significant amount.

1. There is no "magic" about it so calling it that to Appeal to ridicule is just your attempt at yet another fallacy , inertial dampening is in effect and as such the conservation off momentum requires that the mass is altered.

2. We already know it has artificial gravity and it must have inertial dampening due to those on the inside as well as those outside on the hull not getting splattered against walls ect when it moves and as such the conservation of momentum requires mass lightening. Yet another example of inertial dampening reaching the hull and beyond the guys shooting at ships out of windows while the DS is approaching the planet so it is obviously moving and they are not suffering any effects from the acceleration.

But as per usual you are still trying to claim "sceince says so" for your propulsion calcs while ignoring that science also says that with the fact the DS and other SW ships have inertial dampening means that science says the mass must be altered.

You guys do realize that there are no thrusters on the Death Star 1 or Death Star 2 like there is on every other ship we see in Star Wars. If the propulsion system used by the Death Stars moves every part of the Death Star and everything on it equally wouldn't that solve the problem of they station ripping itself apart?

[Mr. Oragahn]

There are thrusters, it's well described in the EU. However, their design makes them just good enough to offer some modicum of mobility to the station. As per the observations from the RPG supplement "Black Ice", we see that the battle station is indeed best considered a station with some maneuverability, perhaps a tad enhanced, and that is all.

[General Donner]

Conservation of momentum may not be butchered if you increase speed as much as you decrease mass. The limit would be the speed of light, which may not be attained. This goes without saying that closer to the speed of light, the relative mass increases a lot. Conservation of energy won't be much a problem since what may be gained or lost from the kinetic energy can be stored under other forms of energy.

Speed increased in what direction, by what mechanism? If the mass of the ship decreases then the mass (and momentum) of the engine exhaust also decreases, taking down with it the force exerted on the ship. Unless we're talking some kind of reactionless drive that works by technobabble the net velocity should remain the same according to what I know of basic Newtonian mechanics. Or am I overlooking something?

And if the mass lightening affects the crew, as noted they'll all die quite quickly from having their body chemistries screwed up.

Mass lightening is basically broken tech for starships. You could use it on other stuff -- a railgun shell springs to mind since it's not accelerated by reaction thrusters and doesnt have a crew -- but for something like an ISD it adds more problems than it solves.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Conservation of momentum may not be butchered if you increase speed as much as you decrease mass. The limit would be the speed of light, which may not be attained. This goes without saying that closer to the speed of light, the relative mass increases a lot. Conservation of energy won't be much a problem since what may be gained or lost from the kinetic energy can be stored under other forms of energy.

Speed increased in what direction, by what mechanism? If the mass of the ship decreases then the mass (and momentum) of the engine exhaust also decreases, taking down with it the force exerted on the ship. Unless we're talking some kind of reactionless drive that works by technobabble the net velocity should remain the same according to what I know of basic Newtonian mechanics. Or am I overlooking something?

No it's a valid point. The mass lightening technology would have to allow a special interaction between the ship's superstructure and its exhaust around the engine section.
Exhaust escaping the ML effects would return to its normal mass and lose speed. But increasing mass is a good thing, as long as this increase happens before the exhaust has actually pushed against the walls of the thruster.
Therefore, in a "core", the walls would be lightened, but not the volume inside, so the fuel that would be injected would suddenly recover its mass, be ignited under its normal mass and therefore provide a normal and yet impressive push.
It's actually a good thing to have the fuel recover its mass before it begins to release energy.

And if the mass lightening affects the crew, as noted they'll all die quite quickly from having their body chemistries screwed up.

Mass lightening is basically broken tech for starships. You could use it on other stuff -- a railgun shell springs to mind since it's not accelerated by reaction thrusters and doesnt have a crew -- but for something like an ISD it adds more problems than it solves.

Unless the effects are totally relative. A bit like that other fancy SF tech that is time dilation, although it has more ground since we know that it's all relative.
Instead of having a local time scale, due to time dilation making time pass slower the faster you go, although you could still jump normally and talk normally to people fly as fast as you, I guess there's something similar going on with MLT.

But there are many flaws to that, including people boarding such ships or walking on hulls.

The other solution, the raw way, is that ships can shield themselves from megaton-level nuclear thrust and also have structural integrity fields of some sort, or über materials, to survive to accelerations that get greater than one digit, when we're talking about things as massive as Star Destroyers.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

1. There is no "magic" about it so calling it that to Appeal to ridicule is just your attempt at yet another fallacy , inertial dampening is in effect and as such the conservation off momentum requires that the mass is altered.

Altering mass is not magic? ROFLAMO.

2. We already know it has artificial gravity and it must have inertial dampening due to those on the inside as well as those outside on the hull not getting splattered against walls ect when it moves and as such the conservation of momentum requires mass lightening. Yet another example of inertial dampening reaching the hull and beyond the guys shooting at ships out of windows while the DS is approaching the planet so it is obviously moving and they are not suffering any effects from the acceleration.

How do you know that it requires mass lightening, something that does not exist, neither in Star Wars nor in real life? Bringing up a ST phrase for SW is like saying that ISD's have to have used chi to have powered their ships, and probably learned instant transmission.

But as per usual you are still trying to claim "sceince says so" for your propulsion calcs while ignoring that science also says that with the fact the DS and other SW ships have inertial dampening means that science says the mass must be altered.

Since when? Intertial dampening is magitech, so if it does exist in SW, which it does, there's nothing saying that the way it works is to reduce a ship's mass. It could reduce its relative mass, or make it so that the acceleration is not felt on it as much, or any other amount of ways. You're claim that the way the dampening works is by somehow lowering mass is unsupported.

We have plenty of examples of pre prometheus ships shields not regenerating like equinox ect but by all means provide your proof of the contrary.

How did the Voyager get through a 7 year journey, and consistently have firefights, without ever regenerating its shields?

You have no choice due to the sheer amount of time they hump warp or other power from other areas into shields to boost them.

because:

RIKER VO: First Officer's log, supplemental. Mister La Forge has diverted power from auxiliary fusion generators in an attempt to stabilize the tractor beam. This is the only hope of increasing our towing speed so we can clear the asteroid belt before radiation levels become fatal.

Auxiliary generators are significant enough to be diverted to complement the main warp core. Therefore, aux power must be within an order of magnitude of main warp power.

Why must they?, because you say so?, prove it considering it was the tactor beam they were using. Not only that but considering the power requirements for high warp aux power should easily be able to propel them at low warp if you were correct.

The quote obviously implies that the ship is using warp power to stabilize the tractor beam, and that Riker feels the need to divert more power from the aux power. If the aux power was several OOM's below that of the warp core, diverting power would be pointless, especially since it could drain the aux power, which is needed for emergencies.

Do you think making up bullshit and trolling will not be pointed out?.

Stop it with your silly trolling accusations. You have no idea what trolling means.

So now a SUPERNOVA at 150,000km = a few dozen MJ?.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

[/quote]


You think that this isn't trolling? Dismissing an argument on an obvious mistype?

[StarWarsStarTrek]

boy I really don't want to have to make this post again as I'm failry sure it will get ignored..by every one like it did the last three times but *takes breath* here goes

Your posts get ignored because they typically have no links or quotes to support them. But this one does, so here goes.

The ICS is non canon for one reason that completely trumps all others. The Films do not support that level of fire power speed or anything at all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZXcWV0S7fo

in the battle of naboo we have starfighters supposedly able to shoot and withstand multiple megaton (or was it kiloton) either way nuclear level fire power yet a random tank firing off a clearly sub KT shot knocks one out of the sky..

Please give the relevant link; your claim is not shown in the link you gave.

later on in the battle anakin gets walled up inside the Droid command ship and is basically in danger of having his ship being gunned down by droids until he raises shields (oh and this is the only instance of shields on a fighter..at no point during any of the other film series is this shown)

How do you know that his fighter was in danger of being destroyed?

within the ship he fires off his lasers this again is supposed to be high yield fire power yet we see no fire balls or anything nuke like hell the droids go down like they would against normal blaster power (some have argued this was because Anakin powered down the weapons...right that never happened on screen so..no dice)

Oh, so the designers of the starfighters would be so stupid as to default the starfighter's laser cannons to kiloton level, while at the same time making it accessible to a 9 year old? Do you not realize how stupid that would be, and how many random accidental nukings would occur from that? Obviously the weapons were not powered to full; this is common sense here.

then he proceeds to fire off ANTI CAPITAL SHIP MISSILES...inside the vessel this should be by ICS standards enough to produce what a Tsar bomb type effect at minimum? far worse at max yet it basically..causes the same effect..a regular ol'bazooka or RPG could of caused.

How do you know that? I said how do you know that? Those proton torpedos were never shown on-screen to be anti capital ship missiles (hypocritical of you), and did jack all against a converted transport ship's shields, so your claim goes unsupported.

now then onto the next battle slave 1 and its supposed megaton was it? fire power? Obi-wan ship a fighter much like anakins gets hit..all we see when he lands is a hole in the armor...ep 1 very clearly establishes that if such fire power had smashed his fighter..there wouldn't be enough remains for a tiny pocket sized coffin

Circular reasoning. You're assuming that Obi Wan's fighter hull cannot take the multi gigajoule level energy imparted by the laser cannon hit, which is shown by the casual fragmentation of several meter long asteroids.

[qutoe]
this is further backed up by ANH when we clearly see the same fire power that's anti fighter fail to blow R2D2's little head off yet if it was high sub kt to low mt..it'd of vaporized the little fuck..and taken lukes entire body and cock pit out with it.
[/quote]

It's possible that the damage done to R2 was bleed through damage from the laser bolt, or a result of conservation of momentum.

it takes these fighters something like..a full minute to clear the DS trench yet their supposed to be able to fight cap ships that can travel in light seconds? yeah..clearly that's consistent.

G canon ANH novel:

"Also, their field generators will probably create a lot of distortion, especially in and around the trench. I figure that maneuverability in that sector will be less than point three." This produced more murmurs and a few groans from the assembly.

and then theres this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmG4OI2stB0

ships clearly trading broad side blows like old sailing ships turbo lasers smashing into armor and causing small fires and not massive nuclear gt/tt death we have multiple instances of vessels (the capital ship of the CIS fleet included) needing to broad side point fucking blank to maximize the accuracy of the shots...we have an actual TL bolt later on in the battle smash into an open gun port on Grevious ship strike ammo and cause..what amounts to minor deck loss and engine damage. if this had been GT or PT or what ever going off inside atmosphere like this I'm pretty sure the vessel would be cosmic ash...split open from the inside and free floating space trash

Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJZbCNexctc

I don't see any megaton level blasts here! By your own logic, that must mean that ST does not have megaton level weapons!

[spoiler]They're in space. Go look up explosions in space in google.[/spoiler]

now onto Endor.

again we see no..such hundreds of KMS or light seconds or light minutes or what ever else Mister Saxton asspulled when given permission to author wank..

Because that was a maximum range Saxton was referring to. Go search up maximum vs effective range.

no we see near gigaton fire power, no what we see are vessels that are completely unable to open fire until they are virtually right ontop of each other...we see fighters scoring multiple hits on cap ships that cause explosions..

And here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeYrkdyW2Cw&feature=fvst

We don't see even kiloton level explosions, but:

[spoiler]They're in space. But by your pseudoscientific logic, that means that ST does not have kiloton level weaponry.[/spoiler]

we see Akbar order the fleet into point blank range

No, we see Lando suggest the order, and we see Ackbar balk at it as suicidal. In the novelizations, it is revealed that such close ranges have never been attempted against star destroyers.

hell in the battle a star destroyer is blasted apart by fighters!!

Where?

this thing visibly breaks into sections due to fighters who's fiire power is more consistent with tanks and heavy blasters then mini nukes sweet jesus

Except that the G canon novelizations depict torpedos as thermonuclear warheads, and the G canon films show multi gigajoule level firepower by Slave 1's rapid fire laser cannon, meaning that every shot from cannons with a RoF of 700 rpm is a thousand times stronger than a modern depleted uranium 120 mm sabot round. What were you saying again?

and of course we have..the tv series while not as critical as the movies is certainly a higher canon then anything else in the EU...

And according to you, it's higher than the film-novels, even though the film-novels are stated by Lucasarts to be of higher canon than TCW.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y34tzS2S7XU&feature=fvsr

fighters engaging at ranges cap ships should easily be able to by ICS standards yet..cannot..and are forced into basically firing flack like some WW2 era cruiser in an desperate attempt to matter in the battle at all

Explained by the G canon RotS novel, in which hallfire missiles are intercepted midair by LAAT gunships.

the best part comes when ICS rated fire power should of clearly vaporized a storm trooper yet all he is killed knocked forward and his ship's cockpit fragged..there's no such fire power what so ever..

Shields + armor

Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHTtOMWRysg

We don't see the ship get vaporized either, so by your own logic ST ships don't exhibit even kiloton level firepower; again using YOUR reasoning.

then we have a ship a venator damaged by fighters ramming her and shooting at her and some cap ship tl bolts (which by the way fail to one shot fighters at various points through out the clone wars) ram one of the nemoidian cruisers..and boom..you'd think an ICS rated ship would have no problems no selling that

Star Trek ramming:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv-Y_PKuXqo

This scene shows several things:

1. Ships engaging in ranges of under 1 km
2. Ships moving at super slow speeds
3. Ramming at a few hundred meters/second being effective against a shielded ship

oh then we have a group of CIS ships open fire maybe a few hundred meters out on a venator..the fire power is damaging the ship to where explosions are happening (obvious hull breaches are obvious) pitifully not GT fire power...of course and oh look..a FIGHTER WING DESTROYS CAP SHIPS...which is something SWST has been disputing is possible at all yet it happens in canon clearly more valid then the ICS

Contradicted by your own post:

and are forced into basically firing flack like some WW2 era cruiser in an desperate attempt to matter in the battle at all

all through out the TCW battle the films are not contradicted they mesh up with everything that transpired in the films themselves and none of it..from the highest possible canon and a supplement of secondary canon...none of it NONE OF IT..support the ICS

Really? Then explain why we see <1 km ranges in TCW while the G canon film and film-novel of ROTJ states that such ranges are suicidal and never used.

I'll be addressng force powers either in another thread or in my next post..which ever the mods..prefer

Have you gotten around to it yet?

but this is getting crazy I just spent five minutes on youtube and twenty minutes writing up this post..and I found more then enough primary canon evidence to toss out any fire power and speed and range figures...in this book

No, you attempted to use TCW to contradict G canon evidence that torpedos are thermonuclear weapons, and therefore your evidence goes out the window.

[Picard]

Star Trek ramming:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv-Y_PKuXqo

This scene shows several things:

1. Ships engaging in ranges of under 1 km
2. Ships moving at super slow speeds
3. Ramming at a few hundred meters/second being effective against a shielded ship

And, as usual, is cherrypicking. Besides, movies are lower canon than series.

Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJZbCNexctc

I don't see any megaton level blasts here! By your own logic, that must mean that ST does not have megaton level weapons!

[spoiler]They're in space. Go look up explosions in space in google.[/spoiler]

Correct.

[Praeothmin]

1. Ships engaging in ranges of under 1 km

PROVE IT WITH EVIDENCE, AND STOP IGNORING THE FACT THAT THE E-E FIRED AT THE SCIMITAR WHILE IT WAS AT LEAST 10 TIMES THE SCIMITAR'S LENGTH IN DISTANCE.
THE SCIMITAR IS CLOSE TO TWICE THE E-E'S LENGTH, WHICH MAKES THE BATTLE AT RANGES OF 5-10 KM EASILY...

[StarWarsStarTrek]

1. Ships engaging in ranges of under 1 km

PROVE IT WITH EVIDENCE, AND STOP IGNORING THE FACT THAT THE E-E FIRED AT THE SCIMITAR WHILE IT WAS AT LEAST 10 TIMES THE SCIMITAR'S LENGTH IN DISTANCE.
THE SCIMITAR IS CLOSE TO TWICE THE E-E'S LENGTH, WHICH MAKES THE BATTLE AT RANGES OF 5-10 KM EASILY...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv-Y_PKuXqo


Yes, there were times where they were firing at >1 km ranges, but there are also times in the same video where they don't. You see, the Romulan ships were cloaked, yet they were firing at such close ranges that the Enterprise could still hit them anyway. You'd expect for the Romulan captain to position his cloaked ships far enough away so that the Enterprise could not hit them through what was almost dumb luck.

[Praeothmin]

AT NO TIME DID THE E-E FIRE ON THE ROMULAN SHIPS, AS THEY CAME TO HELP AGAINST THE SCIMITAR...
ARE YOU DONE LYING?

[Admiral Breetai]

[Your posts get ignored because they typically have no links or quotes to support them. But this one does, so here goes.

wow so you lie and admit to doing exactly what every one accuses you of at the same time

[Please give the relevant link; your claim is not shown in the link you gave.

your right my bad wrong link but it happened when they left the hangar bay

[How do you know that his fighter was in danger of being destroyed?

this is a joke post right?

[Oh, so the designers of the starfighters would be so stupid as to default the starfighter's laser cannons to kiloton level, while at the same time making it accessible to a 9 year old? Do you not realize how stupid that would be, and how many random accidental nukings would occur from that? Obviously the weapons were not powered to full; this is common sense here.

...none of this is shown on screen

[How do you know that? I said how do you know that? Those proton torpedos were never shown on-screen to be anti capital ship missiles (hypocritical of you), and did jack all against a converted transport ship's shields, so your claim goes unsupported.

it happened on screen big explosion of fire and all that obvious vented of atmsophere is obvious ship was damaged

Circular reasoning. You're assuming that Obi Wan's fighter hull cannot take the multi gigajoule level energy imparted by the laser cannon hit, which is shown by the casual fragmentation of several meter long asteroids.

[

it can't and slave1 had no such fire power

[It's possible that the damage done to R2 was bleed through damage from the laser bolt, or a result of conservation of momentum.

aint no hand waving that away son

[G canon ANH novel:

Also, their field generators will probably create a lot of distortion, especially in and around the trench. I figure that maneuverability in that sector will be less than point three." This produced more murmurs and a few groans from the assembly
]

not stated on screen by dodonna thus not fucking valid

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJZbCNexctc

I don't see any megaton level blasts here! By your own logic, that must mean that ST does not have megaton level weapons!

[spoiler]They're in space. Go look up explosions in space in google.[/spoiler]

[

now this is a blatant troll post your getting off topic in an attempt to derail the thread to avoid answering arguments this has nothing tlo do with anything here

and your wrong

[Because that was a maximum range Saxton was referring to. Go search up maximum vs effective range.

the point is saxton invented something not shown on screen

And here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeYrkdyW2Cw&feature=fvst

We don't see even kiloton level explosions, but:

[spoiler]They're in space. But by your pseudoscientific logic, that means that ST does not have kiloton level weaponry.[/spoiler]

another irrelevant attack on trek to side track

[No, we see Lando suggest the order, and we see Ackbar balk at it as suicidal. In the novelizations, it is revealed that such close ranges have never been attempted against star destroyers.

sure when your flying massive ships and your maximum shown range is a few hundred meters and your average dozens going broad side to broad side is dangerous just due to collisions

changes nothing about ranges not supporting ICS figures

[Where?

battle of endor

[Except that the G canon novelizations depict torpedos as thermonuclear warheads, and the G canon films show multi gigajoule level firepower by Slave 1's rapid fire laser cannon, meaning that every shot from cannons with a RoF of 700 rpm is a thousand times stronger than a modern depleted uranium 120 mm sabot round. What were you saying again?

that Lucas should of put all this on screen if he wanted it to be canon my stance is "to hell with Chee and his canon tree"

[And according to you, it's higher than the film-novels, even though the film-novels are stated by Lucasarts to be of higher canon than TCW

.

of course it's higher then the film novels only whats on screen matters

[Explained by the G canon RotS novel, in which hallfire missiles are intercepted midair by LAAT gunships.

my capacity to care is non existant

[Here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHTtOMWRysg

We don't see the ship get vaporized either, so by your own logic ST ships don't exhibit even kiloton level firepower; again using YOUR reasoning.

remember how you got in trouble for posting that clip after being told miultiple times about the context and how you kept distorting it

Star Trek ramming:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv-Y_PKuXqo

This scene shows several things:

1. Ships engaging in ranges of under 1 km
2. Ships moving at super slow speeds
3. Ramming at a few hundred meters/second being effective against a shielded ship

wow you really are getting desperate if you have to resort to this off topic rambling

[Contradicted by your own post:

so taking an out of context part of my post and then playing pretend is valid now?

[Really? Then explain why we see <1 km ranges in TCW while the G canon film and film-novel of ROTJ states that such ranges are suicidal and never used.

the films both new and old show such ranges endor shows such ranges the novel can go jump in a river

[Have you gotten around to it yet?

when mike or preao gimme a when I will

[No, you attempted to use TCW to contradict G canon evidence that torpedos are thermonuclear weapons, and therefore your evidence goes out the window

what the fuck are you blabbering about I posted canon evidence then backed it up with more canon evidence all you did was ramble and troll

[StarWarsStarTrek]

wow so you lie and admit to doing exactly what every one accuses you of at the same time


your right my bad wrong link but it happened when they left the hangar bay

But you can provide a link, right?

this is a joke post right?

Hey, I asked you a question.

...none of this is shown on screen

No, I deduced it logically, just like how we can deduce logically that Anakin goes to the bathroom sometime during the day.

it happened on screen big explosion of fire and all that obvious vented of atmsophere is obvious ship was damaged

Except that the shields were explicitly stated to have not been penetrated.

it can't and slave1 had no such fire power

Yes it did:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1kZcda2rtw

Notice the asteroids being fragmented.

aint no hand waving that away son

The conservation of momentum is real, and not handwavium.

not stated on screen by dodonna thus not fucking valid

George Lucas says that the film-novels are canon.

now this is a blatant troll post your getting off topic in an attempt to derail the thread to avoid answering arguments this has nothing tlo do with anything here

No, it's using a common ad absurtium argument that is apparently too complex for you to understand. Basically:

1. You claimed that SW lacks gigaton level blasts because we don't see them in space battles
2. I made the counter argument that, by your own logic, ST doesn't even have kiloton weapons because we don't see kiloton level explosions in ST space battles.

See? You're applying a double standard. SW space battles don't show gigaton explosions because they're in space, and neither do ST space battles.

and your wrong

On the contrary, basic physics tells us that you need an atmosphere to have a fireball because...gasp...fire needs oxygen to function.

the point is saxton invented something not shown on screen

The point is that your attempt to counter this mangled effective and maximum range.

another irrelevant attack on trek to side track

No, it's pointing out that you are:

1. Applying a double standard
2. Not understanding the fact that you can't have fireballs where there's no atmosphere.

sure when your flying massive ships and your maximum shown range is a few hundred meters and your average dozens going broad side to broad side is dangerous just due to collisions

changes nothing about ranges not supporting ICS figures

On the contrary, the "maximum range" you claim it is was explicitly stated by Lando to be point blank range the blatant OPPOSITE of maximum range.

battle of endor

I know that, but where in the battle? When? Link please.

that Lucas should of put all this on screen if he wanted it to be canon my stance is "to hell with Chee and his canon tree"

He did. The ON SCREEN asteroid belt geonosis event shows several meter long asteroids being fragmented.

of course it's higher then the film novels only whats on screen matters

George Lucas says otherwise.

my capacity to care is non existant

You cannot try and make up your own canon policy.

remember how you got in trouble for posting that clip after being told miultiple times about the context and how you kept distorting it

The video clearly shows that a ST ship is not vaporized by a photon torpedo. It's using the same logic that you use.

wow you really are getting desperate if you have to resort to this off topic rambling

Off topic? Did you happen to read the title of this board?

so taking an out of context part of my post and then playing pretend is valid now?

Explain how it is out of context please, I may have made an honest mistake.

the films both new and old show such ranges endor shows such ranges the novel can go jump in a river

No, the films show Lando calling those ranges "point blank range".

when mike or preao gimme a when I will

I don't get it; why can't you just make a new thread?

what the fuck are you blabbering about I posted canon evidence then backed it up with more canon evidence all you did was ramble and troll

No, the film-novels > TCW according to Lucasarts, the company that OWNS Star Wars. Your personal opinion doesn't win debates.

[Admiral Breetai]

[But you can provide a link, right]

we gonna concede that you intentionally distort and ignore peoples posts?

[Hey, I asked you a question.

oh my god you where serious okay then either the droids are the most retarded beings in the universe or they seriously thought they could take it on as it was

[No, I deduced it logically, just like how we can deduce logically that Anakin goes to the bathroom sometime during the day.

so basically you made it up...gotcha
invalid

[Except that the shields were explicitly stated to have not been penetrated.

[

it's nice to know that in GL's fictional universe space has air then

[]Yes it did:


Notice the asteroids being fragmented.

so asteroids of unknown composition vs several decades of consistent showings yeah wrong again

[

[The conservation of momentum is real, and not handwavium

.

on screen he got shot and managed to not get vaporized end of story

[]George Lucas says that the film-novels are canon.

it was not stated on screen therefor I do not care

[No, it's using a common ad absurtium argument that is apparently too complex for you to understand. Basically:

1. You claimed that SW lacks gigaton level blasts because we don't see them in space battles
2. I made the counter argument that, by your own logic, ST doesn't even have kiloton weapons because we don't see kiloton level explosions in ST space battles.

See? You're applying a double standard. SW space battles don't show gigaton explosions because they're in space, and neither do ST space battles.

so that's a yes your choosing to continue an off topic troll post

[]On the contrary, basic physics tells us that you need an atmosphere to have a fireball because...gasp...fire needs oxygen to function.

and yet clearly shielded ships generate fire balls in space as you previously got backed into..as such we see no fire balld

[The point is that your attempt to counter this mangled effective and maximum range.

you keep missing where nothing supports this

[]No, it's pointing out that you are:

1. Applying a double standard
2. Not understanding the fact that you can't have fireballs where there's no atmosphere.

no I'm completely ignoring this because your being dishonest lying and posting a flame baiting topic

[On the contrary, the "maximum range" you claim it is was explicitly stated by Lando to be point blank range the blatant OPPOSITE of maximum range.

and yet you continue to pretend that they have ranges beyond hundreds of meters despite this being nonsense

[I know that, but where in the battle? When? Link please.

I posted a link to this battle in this very thread

[He did. The ON SCREEN asteroid belt geonosis event shows several meter long asteroids being fragmented.

still seeing kt to low mt fire power

[George Lucas says otherwise.

then he can go ahead and rerelease the films backing this up

[You cannot try and make up your own canon policy.

on the contrary i'm applying an age old comic/anime based system of conducting vs debates pionered by the legendary serge back in 92 it's the feat based debate system

under it anything that contradicts the primary source is out no matter what the official policy is..strick absolute adherence to consistent feats is all thats canon

[The video clearly shows that a ST ship is not vaporized by a photon torpedo. It's using the same logic that you use.

these are the same ships that that trade blows with weaponry that can destroy atmospheres with their phasers and turn worlds into burning cinders so yeah

but any ways this is off topic and your trolling

[Off topic? Did you happen to read the title of this board?

did you happen to read this title of this thread?

[Explain how it is out of context please, I may have made an honest mistake

.

i'd of believed that before but your dishonest conduct

[No, the films show Lando calling those ranges "point blank range".

how does this change the fact that hundreds of meters are the max?

[I don't get it; why can't you just make a new thread?

because I've been a royal jerk to them of late I plan on being nice for once

[
No, the film-novels > TCW according to Lucasarts, the company that OWNS Star Wars. Your personal opinion doesn't win debates

and they are still beholden to a standard of evidence in vs debates

[StarWarsStarTrek]

we gonna concede that you intentionally distort and ignore peoples posts?

You still have no link for your claim. I am asking you politely to go online and find a video supporting the incident. I am not denying that it happened, I simply need context.

oh my god you where serious okay then either the droids are the most retarded beings in the universe or they seriously thought they could take it on as it was

Since when do battle droids have decent intelligence or self preservation routines? They tried taking on Jedi in the films, when that's just as suicidal in those numbers as taking on a starfighter.

so basically you made it up...gotcha
invalid

I used logic to explain why it's true. It's no more making it up than it is making up that Luke goes to the bathroom.

it's nice to know that in GL's fictional universe space has air then

Oh no, the fireball could easily have come from any oxygen inside the proton torpedo itself.

so asteroids of unknown composition vs several decades of consistent showings yeah wrong again

Unknown composition? There are only a few known asteroid compositions plentiful enough to fill up a giant asteroid field, and these that match the visuals would be either rock or nickel-iron.

on screen he got shot and managed to not get vaporized end of story

No, he got damaged by a shot, but there is nothing indicating that it was a direct, unshielded and undiluted hit.

it was not stated on screen therefor I do not care

WHAT? Why are you dismissing evidence based on your own personal opinion? George Lucas says that it's canon; why do you think that you can trump the owner of Star Wars is what is canon?

And your "not stated on screen = not true" claim is stupid. Are you to claim that all books are invalid because they're not on screen?

so that's a yes your choosing to continue an off topic troll post

Which is your excuse for the fact that you cannot refute your obvious double standard.

and yet clearly shielded ships generate fire balls in space as you previously got backed into..as such we see no fire balld

Fireballs can be a result of the oxygen of the proton torpedos. The Rebel and Imperial forces clearly used a type of torpedo without oxygen in it, hence the lack of explosions.

you keep missing where nothing supports this

Actually, there is. We know from ESB that Vader wanted to bombard Hoth from outside the system.

no I'm completely ignoring this because your being dishonest lying and posting a flame baiting topic

If it's dishonest and lying, can't you easily pick it apart and debunk it?

Be honest.

and yet you continue to pretend that they have ranges beyond hundreds of meters despite this being nonsense

Logic:

Ranges of a few hundred meters shown
Lando says that these ranges are POINT BLANK RANGE

Logically, if a few hundred meters are "point blank range", then by definition of the term "point blank range", typical distances are far higher, because point blank range = super close range.

I posted a link to this battle in this very thread

And nowhere do I see fighters destroying ISD's, except for the fluke event with the Executor.

still seeing kt to low mt fire power

So you're admitting that the slave 1 has kt to mt firepower?

then he can go ahead and rerelease the films backing this up

...

George Lucas supports the film-novels as canon. He owns Star Wars. You can't refuse evidence just because you don't like it.

on the contrary i'm applying an age old comic/anime based system of conducting vs debates pionered by the legendary serge back in 92 it's the feat based debate system

under it anything that contradicts the primary source is out no matter what the official policy is..strick absolute adherence to consistent feats is all thats canon

Oh, if it contradicts primary canon then obviously it's out. But the film-novels are according to George Lucas primary canon, just a step below the films. The burden of proof is on you to disprove the canon film-novels, because otherwise they stand as complementing the films.

The reason why the film-novels were made, other than to make money, is to provide a different medium to tell the SW movies from, and also to elaborate on things such as character thoughts and SW ships, planets, etc that the movie lacks the time to go into. George Lucas approves of all of these novels, and they are even above TCW in official canon status.

these are the same ships that that trade blows with weaponry that can destroy atmospheres with their phasers and turn worlds into burning cinders so yeah

but any ways this is off topic and your trolling

That's not what you claimed. Your argument was:

If there were kiloton weapons, the ship would be vaporized

The same argument applies to ST.

did you happen to read this title of this thread?

And you honestly think that the ICS has nothing to do with ST?

i'd of believed that before but your dishonest conduct

...

I politely asked you to back up your claim that it is out of context, and you ignored me.

So please, explain to me what I did that was out of context. What was the context that I missed, so that I can edit it in?

how does this change the fact that hundreds of meters are the max?

Do you understand what point blank range is?

A few hundred meters = point blank range according to Lando

point blank range is the OPPOSITE of max range.

Therefore, a few hundred meters =/= max range, it's the OPPOSITE of max range. Max range according to the Empire Strikes Back can extend to beyond a system.

because I've been a royal jerk to them of late I plan on being nice for once

Hm, that's interesting.

and they are still beholden to a standard of evidence in vs debates

Since when is it a standard of evidence to only accept evidence that is told through the visual medium, and to no accept book evidence?

Am I not allowed to quote Stephen Hawking's book because it's not shown on screen?