defensive capabilities and durability of the deathstar

[StarWarsStarTrek]

1. Star Wars Death Star mentions that debris ranging from tiny pebbles to chunks the size of mountains impacted against the Death Star's shields.

2. The Death Star would have to have structural integrity up to 300,000 times that of structural steel to be able to move without ripping itself apart.

3. Star Wars Death Star states that a hypothetical fleet of super star destroyers would pose no threat to the Death Star.

4. The movies show that any full on capital ship assault against the Death Star is suicide.

5. The movies show the Death Star within a 100,000 or so KM of Alderaan's explosion, meaning that the Death Star would be hit with astronomical amounts of debris moving at hypervelocity speeds.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

2. The Death Star would have to have structural integrity up to 300,000 times that of structural steel to be able to move without ripping itself apart.

Deal with these first:

1. DEATH STAR POWER OUTPUT YOUR CLAIM:

http://www.starfleetjedi.net/forum/view ... &start=180

The Death Star circumnavigating Yavin 4 in a matter of minutes, calculating out to 67 km/s, requiring about e29 joules of energy assuming a density similar to a GSC.

Not only does this assume the DS came out of hyperspace stationary, it ignores the fact that without mass lightening and inertial dapening the DS would tear itself apart under such thrust.

2. SHIELDING:

Horray!

Star Trek shields


"RELICS" is courtesy of Mike Wong, here:

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... ield1.html

So let me get this straight:

The Enterprise was FINE as it was entering orbit of the star. However, a solar flare hit it, and its shields went down to 23%.

At 150,000 km.

1. The ship was at 150,000km for a significant amount of time prior to the flare that caused them to raise the shields.

2.The ship and its main systems were already damaged so when the shields were raised they were at 23%.

3. It is clearly stated that the solar flares are going to get worse and yet the shields could last 3 hours of pounding from them (so if the flare knocked them down to 23% then how could they last 3 hours of even worse pounding).

[Mr. Oragahn]

2. The Death Star would have to have structural integrity up to 300,000 times that of structural steel to be able to move without ripping itself apart.

Can't remember where I read that, but I recall some source, perhaps even a drawing, referring to huge vertical pylons going from pole to pole and being responsible of the station's structural integrity by applying a force field.
SW has not demonstrated using materials 300,000 stronger than steel by the way.

5. The movies show the Death Star within a 100,000 or so KM of Alderaan's explosion, meaning that the Death Star would be hit with astronomical amounts of debris moving at hypervelocity speeds.

With most of the field stabilizing, there's a chance that the debris didn't actually enjoy their super drifting speed that long. Plus, on RDA's page, there's visual evidence that the planet was partially collapsing.

We also have some nice evidence of the battle station's firepower against varying targets.

[Mr. Oragahn]

And mini-torpedos have never appeared in any way, shape, or form in Star Trek Canon as far as I know.

Standard torpedo
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/bl ... eet-32.jpg

That's not official, I hope. A detonator? For M/AM? In lieu of a guidance system btw??

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Can't remember where I read that, but I recall some source, perhaps even a drawing, referring to huge vertical pylons going from pole to pole and being responsible of the station's structural integrity by applying a force field.
SW has not demonstrated using materials 300,000 stronger than steel by the way.

Do you have a source? Besides, does it really matter if the durability of the death star comes from its structural strength or its technobabble force field integrity boosters?

With most of the field stabilizing, there's a chance that the debris didn't actually enjoy their super drifting speed that long.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion

Plus, on RDA's page, there's visual evidence that the planet was partially collapsing.

...what? Elaborate, please, what this is supposed to imply.

We also have some nice evidence of the battle station's firepower against varying targets.

I am still debating whether this is light hearted sarcasm, or a deliberate attempt to fool me in an insult of my intelligence.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Can't remember where I read that, but I recall some source, perhaps even a drawing, referring to huge vertical pylons going from pole to pole and being responsible of the station's structural integrity by applying a force field.
SW has not demonstrated using materials 300,000 stronger than steel by the way.

Do you have a source?

If I had one I'd have given it. But I'll try to find it.

Besides, does it really matter if the durability of the death star comes from its structural strength or its technobabble force field integrity boosters?

It's more a question of consistency.

With most of the field stabilizing, there's a chance that the debris didn't actually enjoy their super drifting speed that long.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws_of_motion

Debunked by the movie's technobabble and Solo's ship entering the edge of an asteroid field precisely where his ship came out of hyperspace, which is generally quite close to a planet, with that same field suddenly stopping to exist as the Millennium Falcon pursues a TIE fighter.

Plus, on RDA's page, there's visual evidence that the planet was partially collapsing.

...what? Elaborate, please, what this is supposed to imply.

Easy, it implies that some bizarro phenomenon generates a force that pulls matter towards the planet's core.
You're not asked to accepte all he says, but you can find the relevant bit on his Death Star pages.
http://st-v-sw.net/STSWdeathstarindex.html

We also have some nice evidence of the battle station's firepower against varying targets.

I am still debating whether this is light hearted sarcasm, or a deliberate attempt to fool me in an insult of my intelligence.

Debating? With whom?
It's neither sarcasm nor insult. Just chill.

[General Donner]

Can't remember where I read that, but I recall some source, perhaps even a drawing, referring to huge vertical pylons going from pole to pole and being responsible of the station's structural integrity by applying a force field.
SW has not demonstrated using materials 300,000 stronger than steel by the way.

Not sure where that'd be. Main tech sources on the DEath Star are AFAIK, the old WEG Tech Companion, Technical Journal and the ICS. But I'm sure there are others.

From what I remember of our discussions though you have all these. Or am I wrong?

The Saxtonian ICS books (for what they're worth around here) make it quite clear most capships are supported by forcefields ("tensor fields" is their term for it) rather than metal bulk alone. Incidentally this is also the Warsie excuse why thousand gees accels are oll korrekt even if the big ugly cruiser in Episode 3 breaks apart on reentry.

[Praeothmin]

Thread split...
Please continue Photon Torp discussions in new thread...

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Mr. O, until you can find the source, or prove that Alderaan was not "blown into space dust" as both the novel and the script say; whether it's through DET or technobabble is not relevant to t his thread, it can be stated that the Death Star was right next to a planet when it blew up, and it was completely fine.

Also, its shield. The Death Star's shield being projected from Endor was so powerful that the Rebel fleet did not even try and stop it. And:

TASHA (over comm): Excuse the interruption, Captain, but this may be worth it. We're now receiving a signal from the probe.

PICARD: We'll take it here, please.

(Viewscreen shows forcefield being projected from planet, holding both the Enterprise and the Ferengi vessel in place)

GEORDI: Incredible!

RIKER: That's our mysterious "something," Captain. It is a forcefield of some kind...

PICARD: Reaching up from the planet surface. What amazing power! How does the legend describe the end of the Tkon Empire?

DATA: By their Sun going supernova, sir.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Mr. O, until you can find the source, or prove that Alderaan was not "blown into space dust" as both the novel and the script say; whether it's through DET or technobabble is not relevant to t his thread, it can be stated that the Death Star was right next to a planet when it blew up, and it was completely fine.

Do yourself a favor and watch ANH again, (given that alderaan is earth sized) it is clear that from the cameras position that it is in front of the DS and the distance between the DS and planet is greater than that of earth and the moon (the size of alderaan from that position is about what thw earth looks like from the moon).

The explosion itself does not even reach the cameras position so it obviously did not reach the DS position either as the DS was behind the camera, the reason for this is quite obvious and consistent with most of the planets mass getting shunted into hyperspace and having a relatively small amount left to actually explode.