List of expanded universe sources incompatible with ICS

[Admiral Breetai]

I've always considered the battle of naboo to really only have the only evidence supporting high MT fire power..possible low GT which was when one of the fighters smashed a shield generator with a torp and created an explosion that dwarfed both completely..but sense about..a scene later Anakin fires one off inside the ship and no such reaction consistent with GT or MT level fire power was shown at all..rather we get something that looks more like a mere rocket launcher fired the shot the thought

does any one else remember the opening scene I'm talking about? and if so was my estimation of the fire power accurate or off?

[Mike DiCenso]

3. See those nukes? There is no reason to believe that the technology for them was lost or secret, as fusion and fission reactions are commercially available in Star Wars. What chances would you give the Enterprise for surviving a gigaton nuke?

Pretty good, actually. Given that quantum torpedoes and photon torpedoes have shown to be capable of 500-1,000 megatons in "For the Uniform" and "Skin of Evil", and that in the "Nth Degree", the E-D could tank 4 maximum yeild torpedoes, a single one gigaton weapon will not take her out.
-Mike

[Praeothmin]

Cool, so now you'll explain how this translates in GT Turbolasers... :)

The high megaton/low gigaton nukes reveal several things:

1. Upon detecting the missiles, the commander assumed that they were the targets and ordered power to be diverted to the shields; this means that even 4000 year old Star Wars ships can take gigatons of damage.

2. Since we do not see these missiles ever being used in the PT/OT/etc era, they are probably outdated. Them being too expensive is ridiculous, as a farmboy on tatooine can afford fusion reactors. Therefore, 'modern' missiles and turbolasers are likely more powerful than the gigaton level nuclear weapons shown in a war 4000 years before the films.

3. See those nukes? There is no reason to believe that the technology for them was lost or secret, as fusion and fission reactions are commercially available in Star Wars. What chances would you give the Enterprise for surviving a gigaton nuke?

Great, then now explain why an ISD in TESB that cannot even tank a measly 6 MT (very generous high-end calc) asteroid means GT shields for the OT ships.
All your comic proves is that, in the far past in SW, ships actually did seem powerful, but TESB, AotC, RotS show us different, so I guess we should think that SW ships are getting weaker?

Still, I had already mentioned the fact the ships were expected to take the shots:

I must say though, that the Captain expected his shields to tank thses shots, or at least was willing to try...

But, as I said above as well:

Still, nothing in the movies come even close to this, and nothing ST can't do... :)

[Praeothmin]

3. See those nukes? There is no reason to believe that the technology for them was lost or secret, as fusion and fission reactions are commercially available in Star Wars. What chances would you give the Enterprise for surviving a gigaton nuke?

Pretty good, actually. Given that quantum torpedoes and photon torpedoes have shown to be capable of 500-1,000 megatons in "For the Uniform" and "Skin of Evil", and that in the "Nth Degree", the E-D could tank 4 maximum yeild torpedoes, a single one gigaton weapon will not take her out.
-Mike

Plus, since those missiles never did hit the ships, we have no clue on how well they could tank these shots either...

[Praeothmin]

Oh yeah, and:

I don't know about you, but those explosions are definitely high megatons/gigaton. We're talking about hits that are not only seen as specks in orbit, but that are seen as GIANT MUSHROOM CLOUDS OF DOOM from said distances, where even cities are specks, and continents can be seen in one view.

Funny, just like in TiDC, where we see reddish rings and explosions on the planet's surface when the fleet fires.
Mike, my job's firewall blocking everything today means I can't link images.
Could you link Trekcore's TiDC images when youhave the time?
Thanks.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Pretty good, actually. Given that quantum torpedoes and photon torpedoes have shown to be capable of 500-1,000 megatons in "For the Uniform" and "Skin of Evil", and that in the "Nth Degree", the E-D could tank 4 maximum yeild torpedoes, a single one gigaton weapon will not take her out.
-Mike

If torpedos were capable of that, then the Rise asteroid would have taken only one photon torpedo to destroy, not "most of our photon torpedos".

Great, then now explain why an ISD in TESB that cannot even tank a measly 6 MT (very generous high-end calc) asteroid means GT shields for the OT ships.
All your comic proves is that, in the far past in SW, ships actually did seem powerful, but TESB, AotC, RotS show us different, so I guess we should think that SW ships are getting weaker?

Still, I had already mentioned the fact the ships were expected to take the shots:

Because its shields were down, and the asteroid hit a critical section of the ship?

[Mike DiCenso]

If torpedos were capable of that, then the Rise asteroid would have taken only one photon torpedo to destroy, not "most of our photon torpedos".

As answered before, "The Pegasus", not "Rise" torpedoes to melt or vaporize the entire 9 x 6.5 km asteroid would require between 3 to 100 gigatons per torpedo assuming by "most of" they would have fired off 160 or so torpedoes. The "Rise" torpedo nets you upwards of 300 megatons given that the crew thought they had a nickel-iron asteroid of up 390 meters in front of them.

Now try to keep your facts straight.

Because its shields were down, and the asteroid hit a critical section of the ship?

Again, please prove the shields were down. There is no evidence in the highest levels of canon that says that megaton level impacts were occuring, far from it. This has been throughly debunked and laid to rest. Furthermore, even if we did assume the shields are down, then why couldn't that uber tough neutronium hull handle a mere 36 TJs of KE wacking into it?

But let's play with the numbers another way. Let's say that every second an asteroid like that was slamming into the ISD for 24 hours before it's shields collapsed. That's 36 x 86,400 seconds = 3,110,400 TJ. Now divide that by 4,184 = 743.4 megatons. That's not even a gigaton. But we know that the ISDs weren't getting pounded on every second, because we saw one shooting a path through the asteroids, and others flew through gaps, and most of the asteroids seen hitting were very small, only 10 meters or less. Furthermore, we know that the shields were not holding up very well since the one ISD captain reporting to Vader clearly stated "Considering the amount of damage we've sustained, they must have been destroyed." So much for your ICS numbers.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

Am I the only one being annoyed by the fact that our two mods on this board are not bothered avoiding derailing SW threads on and on with debates about ST?
Is ST so important that at any single occasion, you just can't let anything go by otherwise it would feel like a concession and therefore must dispute every single digit about ST's numbers, even if it's absolutely and totally irrelevant to the thread in question?
I don't get it. Mike, you created a "Pegasus redux" thread and you're still pulling this topic into two or three other threads which are purely SW centric. What the hell?

Also, may I remind you all that we already have no less than FOUR different TDiC threads as well?

• In defense on TDiC
• The Die is Cast Strikes Back
• TDiC + Magma = Brainbug?
• TDiC Firepower Versus SW ICS Firepower Deathmatch!

[Picard]

I think it's beacouse SWSt uses different standards for Star Wars and Star Trek. So comparations are inevitable.

[Mike DiCenso]

Oh yeah, and:

I don't know about you, but those explosions are definitely high megatons/gigaton. We're talking about hits that are not only seen as specks in orbit, but that are seen as GIANT MUSHROOM CLOUDS OF DOOM from said distances, where even cities are specks, and continents can be seen in one view.

Funny, just like in TiDC, where we see reddish rings and explosions on the planet's surface when the fleet fires.
Mike, my job's firewall blocking everything today means I can't link images.
Could you link Trekcore's TiDC images when youhave the time?
Thanks.

Here you go, though this is not the appropriate thread for this discussion:





I suggest taking any further discussion of TDiC to the appropriate thread.
-Mike

[Mike DiCenso]

Am I the only one being annoyed by the fact that our two mods on this board are not bothered avoiding derailing SW threads on and on with debates about ST?
Is ST so important that at any single occasion, you just can't let anything go by otherwise it would feel like a concession and therefore must dispute every single digit about ST's numbers, even if it's absolutely and totally irrelevant to the thread in question?
I don't get it. Mike, you created a "Pegasus redux" thread and you're still pulling this topic into two or three other threads which are purely SW centric. What the hell?

Also, may I remind you all that we already have no less than FOUR different TDiC threads as well?

• In defense on TDiC
• The Die is Cast Strikes Back
• TDiC + Magma = Brainbug?
• TDiC Firepower Versus SW ICS Firepower Deathmatch!

The Pegasus issue keeps getting brought up by SWST here and elsewhere. We have been moving and splitting topics, and there is a small amount of leeway here, but if SWST keeps trying to turn the "List of expanded universe sources incompatible with ICS" thread into a full debate, I will take action.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

Am I the only one being annoyed by the fact that our two mods on this board are not bothered avoiding derailing SW threads on and on with debates about ST?
Is ST so important that at any single occasion, you just can't let anything go by otherwise it would feel like a concession and therefore must dispute every single digit about ST's numbers, even if it's absolutely and totally irrelevant to the thread in question?
I don't get it. Mike, you created a "Pegasus redux" thread and you're still pulling this topic into two or three other threads which are purely SW centric. What the hell?

Also, may I remind you all that we already have no less than FOUR different TDiC threads as well?

• In defense on TDiC
• The Die is Cast Strikes Back
• TDiC + Magma = Brainbug?
• TDiC Firepower Versus SW ICS Firepower Deathmatch!

The Pegasus issue keeps getting brought up by SWST here and elsewhere. We have been moving and splitting topics, and there is a small amount of leeway here, but if SWST keeps trying to turn the "List of expanded universe sources incompatible with ICS" thread into a full debate, I will take action.
-Mike

I was more thinking about that thread from which you crated the Pegasus redux thread, made an announcement and then four posts later, was back to argue about Trek and asteroids.
If the problem is SWST, why not slap him like he deserves it? He just encourages this reckless offroading, and apparently most people can't tell him to buzz off and post in the right place.

Another example.
It's hard to bash other members for constant digressions if you actually partake in those as well.

[Mike DiCenso]

I was more thinking about that thread from which you crated the Pegasus redux thread, made an announcement and then four posts later, was back to argue about Trek and asteroids.
If the problem is SWST, why not slap him like he deserves it? He just encourages this reckless offroading, and apparently most people can't tell him to buzz off and post in the right place.

Another example.
It's hard to bash other members for constant digressions if you actually partake in those as well.

All of which will be taken care of. As for the thread you linked to, that was legitimate since is was making the point to SWST that if he/she wants to be over-literal of a colorfully descriptive passage for Star Wars to claim high firepower, then it works just the same way on the other side of aisle. Now please, this smacks of sour grapes.
-Mike

[mojo]

I was more thinking about that thread from which you crated the Pegasus redux thread, made an announcement and then four posts later, was back to argue about Trek and asteroids.
If the problem is SWST, why not slap him like he deserves it? He just encourages this reckless offroading, and apparently most people can't tell him to buzz off and post in the right place.

Another example.
It's hard to bash other members for constant digressions if you actually partake in those as well.

All of which will be taken care of. As for the thread you linked to, that was legitimate since is was making the point to SWST that if he/she wants to be over-literal of a colorfully descriptive passage for Star Wars to claim high firepower, then it works just the same way on the other side of aisle. Now please, this smacks of sour grapes.
-Mike

well, you got the SMACK part right! OOOOOOOOOOOOH! mikey gets PWNED by the O!

[StarWarsStarTrek]

^somebody needs to ban that, because it obviously is not me. Is there any way, Mike, to track who is behind these random sock puppets flaming me? IP tracking?



More on topic with the thread, why is Star by Star a contradicted source? The chief of state strapped a suicidal bomb to his chest, small enough to pass off as a communications device, and when detonated, it was visible from orbit and the fireball radius was a full kilometer.

That's about equal to a 10 megaton bomb...and it was small enough to fit on somebody's chest!

If the bomb was a foot by half a foot by an inch (very reasonably fitting on a chest), the idea of multi gigaton level heavy photon torpedos and concussion missiles isn't that crazy when scaled.



EDIT: as to the giant shockwave video footage, there's also the quantum torpedo firing shot I posted many times earlier which are far smaller, despite them being, you know, quantum torpedos. Presumably, those giant, continent encompassing shockwaves are giant photon torpedos consisting of many tiny warheads for orbital bomardment.