Commentary on StarWarsStarTrek v. 2046

[Mike DiCenso]

Assuming DS9 has Intrepid or Constitution-class-like densities, then we get the following:


M = 88,000,000 metric tons = 88,000,000,000 kilograms
V = 100 kilometers/second = 100,000 meters/second

Solution:
kinetic energy (K) = 4.4E+20 joules

To put it simply, the reactor is generating over that time 1,051 gigatons of energy to move that station, and that's on just the 6 working thrusters they had available! 17.52 GT a day. Or 202 kilotons or 804 terawatts a second.

So there's your minimums. In actuality, they'd have to thrust for 30 days, then apply counter thrust to de-accelerate the station halfway out.
-Mike

[Lucky]

Assuming DS9 has Intrepid or Constitution-class-like densities, then we get the following:


M = 88,000,000 metric tons = 88,000,000,000 kilograms
V = 100 kilometers/second = 100,000 meters/second

Solution:
kinetic energy (K) = 4.4E+20 joules

To put it simply, the reactor is generating over that time 1,051 gigatons of energy to move that station, and that's on just the 6 working thrusters they had available! 17.52 GT a day. Or 202 kilotons or 804 terawatts a second.

So there's your minimums. In actuality, they'd have to thrust for 30 days, then apply counter thrust to de-accelerate the station halfway out.
-Mike

30 days to get to the worm hole without mass-lightning? I always thought it was a shorter amount of time.

Not bad for something that was barely working at the time.

[Mike DiCenso]

It would be 30 days to reach the half way point, then turn around, face into the velocity vector and thrust in the other direction, assuming that they had to thrust the whole time, of course, not simply be making course corrections along the way, ect. Based on what has been established to be the visible ring of thrusters on the station in "Q-Less", the total working number could estimated to be around 50-60. So that means at least 8,000 TW of power is possible, if power is applied to all thrusters.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

It did benefit from a mass lightening field.

On another different topic, about the Imperial fleet circling Endor, let's just remember to look at Endor when seen from space, first when the Rebel fleet jumps out of hyperspace, then when the fleet is close to the Death Star. Remember, the defenders of the super acceleration are the same who argue that the gray thing we see in front of Endor as the Rebels exit hyperspace is the Death Star, as part of their argument for the +900 km behemoth.
Surely, you want to take a look at the evolution of night and day on Endor. ;)
Face value? Time?

[Lucky]

It did benefit from a mass lightening field.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9lHNtLRuBI&NR=1
0:58
Two months to travel 160,000,000 kilometers with only six working thrusters, and no mass lowering.

1:30
With a mass lowering field it took under two days, but I'm not sure if they were Bajoran days(26 hours), or Star Fleet Days(24 hours).

I'd personally assume Star Fleet time since it was a Star Fleet officer who gave the times, and Star Fleet had just taken control of the station.

[Picard]

Regarding the "W00t sublight engines", it is entirely possible that Falcon had secondary hyperdrive, but it lacked range, speed, or both, to travel anywhere further than Bespin. So these planets are probably close, but still in separate systems.

[Mike DiCenso]

Or Anoat and the planet Bespin are in the same system, and the Falcon hitched a ride on the Avenger to get there from Hoth.
-Mike

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

It did benefit from a mass lightening field.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9lHNtLRuBI&NR=1
0:58
Two months to travel 160,000,000 kilometers with only six working thrusters, and no mass lowering.

1:30
With a mass lowering field it took under two days, but I'm not sure if they were Bajoran days(26 hours), or Star Fleet Days(24 hours).

I'd personally assume Star Fleet time since it was a Star Fleet officer who gave the times, and Star Fleet had just taken control of the station.

Kira said "it has to be there tomorrow" so at the very most with a bajoran day it is 26 hours and that is if it is a few seconds past midnight when she says it.


That still gives the station a required speed of between 6 and 7 million km/h and more if you factor in the need to accelerate rather than moving and slowing almost instantly like warp.

[Praeothmin]

Or Anoat and the planet Bespin are in the same system, and the Falcon hitched a ride on the Avenger to get there from Hoth.
-Mike

Except that Han specifically states that Standard Imperial porcedure is to dump garbage before jumping to Hyperspace, so they could not have jumped, then dropped garbage, and jumped again.
Although, I'm reading the script again, and it seems to me the Hoth and Anoat systems must be very, very close indeed, if the MF left Hoth without a working Hyperdrive, was able to fly to the Anoat system on sublight speeds, and then to the Bespin system.
They must be part of a sort of Trinary system, like three systems rotating around one another...

After all, it takes less than 10 hours for light to reach Pluto on its outermost position.
If there was another system just outside our solar system, say twice Pluto's distance away, then light from our Sun would take 20 hours to reach it, or 40 hours for a spaceship at say 50% lightspeed.
Or 80 hours (a bit over 3 days) at 25% lightspeed.
We know Luke's training did not happen instantly, so a few days of travel between the two systems would fit with Luke's improvements in his training, and Han's comments of "It's pretty far, but I think we can make it"...

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Or Anoat and the planet Bespin are in the same system, and the Falcon hitched a ride on the Avenger to get there from Hoth.
-Mike

Except that Han specifically states that Standard Imperial porcedure is to dump garbage before jumping to Hyperspace, so they could not have jumped, then dropped garbage, and jumped again.
Although, I'm reading the script again, and it seems to me the Hoth and Anoat systems must be very, very close indeed, if the MF left Hoth without a working Hyperdrive, was able to fly to the Anoat system on sublight speeds, and then to the Bespin system.
They must be part of a sort of Trinary system, like three systems rotating around one another...

After all, it takes less than 10 hours for light to reach Pluto on its outermost position.
If there was another system just outside our solar system, say twice Pluto's distance away, then light from our Sun would take 20 hours to reach it, or 40 hours for a spaceship at say 50% lightspeed.
Or 80 hours (a bit over 3 days) at 25% lightspeed.
We know Luke's training did not happen instantly, so a few days of travel between the two systems would fit with Luke's improvements in his training, and Han's comments of "It's pretty far, but I think we can make it"...

Maybe they are simular to a binary/trinary system seems the more reasonable after all The orbital period can e.g. be a few days (components of Beta Lyrae), but also hundreds of thousands of years (Proxima Centauri around Alpha Centauri AB) and all points in between

[Admiral Breetai]

you know I thought I'd bring this up here since a common tactic used by those who follow the SdN bible is that the Feds have absolute shit industry compared to the Empire and while I'm not sure its been used against DS it was tried (hilariously poorly I might add) against me..and that the existence of the DS and the DsII is proof of superior industry

and I just looked over the space dock from TOS over earth and then SB74 and the friggen monster that is Jupiter station..and I'm like..err those things are large enough to fit nearly entire fleets in 'em...they probably have tens of thousand if not more..residents in those stations

and jesus how many does starfleet have? the SB74 station design seems to be a typical Fed design and of varying sizes to boot and they seem to have at least two or three of these guys if not more on various major systems..these dudes also have long range space stations that are also very big..and seem to build speed space stations (as 9 was one in a series of something like two dozen mentioned of varying sizes)

that they can field numeric Superioty to pretty much anything seen in the films of the tv show while still building these stations and maintaining them showcases good industry

[mojo]

or HUMONGOUS replicators

[Lucky]

you know I thought I'd bring this up here since a common tactic used by those who follow the SdN bible is that the Feds have absolute shit industry compared to the Empire and while I'm not sure its been used against DS it was tried (hilariously poorly I might add) against me..and that the existence of the DS and the DsII is proof of superior industry

and I just looked over the space dock from TOS over earth and then SB74 and the friggen monster that is Jupiter station..and I'm like..err those things are large enough to fit nearly entire fleets in 'em...they probably have tens of thousand if not more..residents in those stations

and jesus how many does starfleet have? the SB74 station design seems to be a typical Fed design and of varying sizes to boot and they seem to have at least two or three of these guys if not more on various major systems..these dudes also have long range space stations that are also very big..and seem to build speed space stations (as 9 was one in a series of something like two dozen mentioned of varying sizes)

that they can field numeric Superioty to pretty much anything seen in the films of the tv show while still building these stations and maintaining them showcases good industry

I think you may want to start a new topic on this.

[Picard]

You have done no such thing. Frankly, the Yavin example doesn't require the Death Star to have any STL drive system at all . . . just drop out of hyperspace and whip around the planet by gravity and boom, you're there . . . where's the need for powered flight?

I might be wrong on this but I think that exiting hyperspace should bring vessel to full stop, since it is another dimension and thus has no effect on momentum of ships in real space.

What the hell is a tension shield? Are you trying to sneak in more EU crap again?

Yes, just one more detail from N-canon... except for the fact that I did not find it on google or on Wookiepedia, which means that it is not EU crap, but rather his own invention.

But in any case, please provide evidence of even a single *vehicle-mounted* weapon being used against San Francisco.

Or that there were no planetary shields in place. We really don't know a thing about attack itself, so there is no point in bringing it up.

[Nowhereman10]

What? Continent sized? Both me and even a trekkie calculated the explosion radius to be a few hundred kms.

Hey! I really don't like this guy misrepresenting my work! >:[

My calculations were only for the size of the fireballs seen in the late stages of the detonations, not the initial intensely bright flash or the shockwaves. The shockwaves do indeed cover thousands of km as Darkstar claims they do. The fireball diameter is what I calculated, not the radius, but the 220 km diameter is sufficent as a high-altitude airburst (per the dialog) to rate as a 500-1000 megaton yeild.

And? They were still fired, and yet did not show the effects that you'd expect from a 100 megaton weapon.

Of course not! They're 500-1000 MT high yeild, high-altitude airbursts!