Battle of Endor with trek ships

[Praeothmin]

That's not in combat, which is the situation we're speaking of here.

I can run the 100 meter dash in less then 20 seconds, but not if I'm throwing punches and evading punches while doing it...

Do you guys finally understand the difference?
Dashing and fighting speeds are not the same thing...

[Who is like God arbour]

Correct, that was not in a combat and even with a ship that was not tested yet.

I would assume that there is more possible when a ship is in combat and brought to its limits. To me it seems ridiculous to assume that ships in combat have a lower performance than ships out of combat.

[Praeothmin]

Let me help you understand then:

Out of combat, you use power for:
-Propulsion;
-Deflectors;
Example: going from Earth to Pluto...

In combat, you use power for:
-Propulsion;
-Weapons;
-Combat Shields;
-Deflectors;
-You will also be evading and trying to hit your opponent, maneuvering (thus using thrusters also) to get the best attack angle while minimizing your opponents', suddenly accelerating or decelerating to throw off your enemy's aim;
Example: Sacrifice of Angels in DS9...

You will never, ever go as fast in combat as you do when just advancing in a straight line, from point a to point b...
It's not just a question of maximum possible speeds...

[Who is like God arbour]

Yes - and if they are only flying STL, they have more than enough energy avaiable from their not used warp-drive.

I can not remember that a not-already-damaged ship had not enough energy for its propulsion only because it was in combat and had to do all the things you have described.

Please provide evidence that a ship in combat has an energy shortage and has therefore to reduce the performance of its propulsion.

[Praeothmin]

Uh, no...
The original assertion was that the SW side would not hit the ST side because the ships would be zipping around like crazy, but no evidence was shown of this...

I asked for evidence that ST ships would indeed be zipping around at those supposed speeds, since I've never seen this in TNG, DS9 or Voyger, and only in certain instances in TOS, and I've yet to get that...

Please provide evidence that a ship in combat has an energy shortage and has therefore to reduce the performance of its propulsion.

How about all the times we've heard requests to put "auxiliary power to shields", or wepaons, or whatever systems that needed additional power?

[Picard]

You won't go as fast in combat as normal. But it will still be too fast for Star Wars gunners.

[Praeothmin]

Prove it...

While the guys aiming at the X-wings were having trouble hitting 12 meter long vehicules, ST ships are NOT 12 meters long, they are at minimum 120 meters long (Defiant), to 680 meters long (the E-E)...

SW aiming, while not as good as ST, is still pretty good:
-Here, at 3:47, they're hitting Amidala's ship, about 12 meters wide, and perhaps 3 high, from at least a dozen km or so...
-Here, at 1:30, the Tantive IV is hit at over 1 km, since it is at least 1 ISD away from the pursuing ship...


While this is the vaunted ST aiming, at 0:35, we see photons being fired at no particular ships, at 0:39 we see many torpedoes missing ships, while some hit...

So in this case as well, while ST targetting is better, it is far from perfect...

[Picard]

Fact that ST ships have 200 000+ kilometer weapons ranges?

While your ST example is basically more dakka situation.

[Praeothmin]

Problem is we've seen this range only once in over 200+ hours of Trek?

Other problem is 95% of the battles in Trek happen at knife-fighting range?

And most important problem is we're re-hashing old grounds which you've always ignored because you don't like the picture it paints of ST, mainly that combat ranges are pretty similar in SW and in ST...

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Fact that ST ships have 200 000+ kilometer weapons ranges?

While your ST example is basically more dakka situation.

ZOMG such uber range!!!! That's, like totally 200,000 + km range! And those totally are not sub ton explosions on par with modern tank rounds!

Iirc, never has a large scale Star Trek battle ever occurred on screen beyond visual range. Ever.

[Praeothmin]

Iirc, never has a large scale Star Trek battle ever occurred on screen beyond visual range. Ever.

Exactly, the ranges are comparable to SW ranges...

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Iirc, never has a large scale Star Trek battle ever occurred on screen beyond visual range. Ever.

Exactly, the ranges are comparable to SW ranges...

No, they aren't. 500 meters was described to be extremely close in Star Wars Clone Wars No Prisoners. Starfighters are often times described as taking formations 1 km apart from each other. Some Star Wars space battles take place on the outer limits of visual range. Meanwhile, in various space battles Star Trek ships move within ranges of a few hundred meters, sometimes within the range of 18th century ship of the lines.

[Khas]

Fact that ST ships have 200 000+ kilometer weapons ranges?

While your ST example is basically more dakka situation.

ZOMG such uber range!!!! That's, like totally 200,000 + km range! And those totally are not sub ton explosions on par with modern tank rounds!

Iirc, never has a large scale Star Trek battle ever occurred on screen beyond visual range. Ever.

You used a piece of obviously photoshopped fanart in the debate...

That really doesn't help your credibility.

[Mike DiCenso]

Awww, you beat me to it, Khas. Yeah, that's really credible evidence. *dripping sarcasm*
-Mike

[Trinoya]

Just throwing something out there:

Wouldn't it be more likely that the reason we see fleet engagements in DS9 at hundreds of meters and tens of kilometers be do to respond time.. I mean.. if you can constantly distribute your fleet to take incoming damage.. since we know that shields can be projected to a great degree..

...

Which would ALSO handily explain WHY there are no shield flashes in DS9 fleet battles... all the shields are extended heavily for easier interception in fleet combats, and the primary method of dealing with that is to fly through the shields. Since photon torpedoes would simply crash against the shields, and since phasers likely loose power the further out they go... It isn't too unreasonable to presume. Mind you: It's still trivial since I really doubt star destroyers will be intercepting torpedo weapons as fast as that nebula could fire them.

...

I'm gonna go look up that quote for how far the ENT: D was able to extend her shields. I shall return.


EDIT: Found it: 5 kilometers. Also, several other incidents of this occuring, including in Mudds Women, where the enterprise was traveling as fast as possible to keep up with Mudds ship (completely with stars wooshing past it in the background).

Nonetheless, important to note I think ^_^