Rebuttal to darkstar's website

[User1462]

Especially if they only have no doctors, only medcal droids.
So if you captured a medical droid and scanned it, you could easily engineer a virus that it couldn't cure; meanwhile Dr. McCoy could cure a rainy day.

Likewise, the EMH, Data, and other Federation AI are capable of actual independent thought, so this is something that that would crush the Empire; if you put Voyager's EMH on every starship then they'd be virtually immune to everything.
Meanwhile you could kill the entire empire by giving them a virust that they couldn't cure, or just beaming a few tribbles onto every agricultural planet.

This brings up a question, i.e. how they do they feed their armies? They'd have to have food on board their ships, while Stafleet vessels have replicators that can feed any amount of people, but Luke's flight-rations in TESB looked like about what we have now.
An army of a million needs about 500 tons' mass worth of raw nutrients every day, and if you can't replicate or reconstitute it then that's going to add up fast.

[The Dude]

Depends on what you feed them. I have no idea what the Clones eat, they could be on hard rats all the time for all I know. But I doubt that the regular human crews and soldiers would be willing to endure that.

[User1462]

Depends on what you feed them. I have no idea what the Clones eat, they could be on hard rats all the time for all I know. But I doubt that the regular human crews and soldiers would be willing to endure that.

Humans need about a pound of basic nutrients every day in order to function, regardless of what form it comes in.

[The Dude]

Uh huh and like I said, it depends on what form its stored in. Some things take up more room then others. And I have no idea if the Republic carries it around as fresh food, sludge in a tank ala Trek or something else.

That said, according to RSA's volume page the Venator has 15,838,619 cubic metres of internal space. Thats a fair bit to store consumables. And I'm sure the Republic would have tenders or other auxiliary vessels to ferry supplies around to fleets.

[User1462]

Uh huh and like I said, it depends on what form its stored in. Some things take up more room then others.

And you were wrong the first time. The form doesn't matter one pound is a minimum. Some food may weigh more than this, by having other things than basic nutrients, but that doesn't reduce the minimum amount.

That said, according to RSA's volume page the Venator has 15,838,619 cubic metres of internal space. Thats a fair bit to store consumables. And I'm sure the Republic would have tenders or other auxiliary vessels to ferry supplies around to fleets.

We're talking mass not volume.

[The Dude]

*sigh* So whats your position then? That the Republic has ships without the capacity to hold consumables for a reasonable timeframe?

The old ISD stats had them carrying six months worth.

[User1462]

I'm trying to determine their food-production technology.
When Luke lands on Dagobah, he has a flight-ration kit which looks like it contains about a pound of food-concentrates. Likewise in AotC, the clones are seen in a mess-hall apparently eating ordinary food. We didn't see any food-synthesizers either, so this indicates that ST technology is below TOS's.
Likewise there are hints in the novelizations that they didn't eat so well on the ships.

[Praeothmin]

[quote="UniveralNetguru]The fuel regenerates ("The Mark of Gideon," TOS3).[/quote]

Some type may, but certainly not the entire propulsion fuel, or at least not at the time of TNG, or else, Voyager could have travelled at warp 9 for years without ever needing new energy sources, or caring about their reserves getting low.
If fuel did regenerate, then how could Voyager's energy reserves get low?

meanwhile Dr. McCoy could cure a rainy day.

Actually, McCoy wasn't even able to cure his father (ST V), so he cannot cure anything...
Even the EMH wasn't able to cure the Phage...
So no, ST medical technology, while more advanced than SW's, doesn't do miracles...

if you put Voyager's EMH on every starship then they'd be virtually immune to everything.

How?
Please elaborate...

And you were wrong the first time. The form doesn't matter one pound is a minimum. Some food may weigh more than this, by having other things than basic nutrients, but that doesn't reduce the minimum amount.

And while you were talking about mass, he was talking about volume.
If you store the nutrients in a highly condensed form, than the volume food takes is a lot less important than if you store the food in a form less dense, like mousse...

We're talking mass not volume.

You were, he wasn't.
And volume is quite more important, because while the ships mass a lot (the ship itself, transports, AT-TEs, etc...), it's the volume they don't have in (pardon the pun) mass, so a highly dense concentrate of nutrients could take up less volume, allowing a lot more food to be stored per ship...

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Galaxies come in all shapes and sizes, and there's no proof on-screen how big the SW galaxy is while in the novel they say that it's "modest-sized," which means small[i/].
Look at a picture of ours:

You can see how it's immensely spread out, compared to canon-pics of the SW galaxy. That shows ours is about 10 times the diameter of the SW galaxy, and so it's about 1/1000 the size from simple volumetrics. That would mean about 200 million stars, and about as many planets.

a) Obi Wan goes to Kamino, stated to be in the outer rim, casually without any large amount of time passing. Based on your calculations, it would have taken him years to do that.

Or months, dependng on the size of the galaxy. However let's also not forget Special Relativity, and the fact that ship-time can pass at a different rate than galaxy-time.
Kamino could also have been on the space-lanes, but it was erased by Dooku over 10 years earlier.

The Star Wars Essential Atlas states a 120,000 LY diameter for the Star Wars galaxy.

On-screen? I didn't see any calendars hanging to show the time.

No, but unless if you think that Qui Gonn and Obi Wan stayed on Tatooine for months, then the travel time was at most a few days.

Again, we don't know the size of the galaxy. Also some routes could be faster, obviously those to Coruscant would be fastest.
Look at a map of any state: the roads to the capital are obviously faster than those to the boondocks.

The size of the Star Wars alaxy is confirmed at 120,000 LYs in diamter.

Then why was Lando wearing Han's clothes at the end of TESB? Obviously it was long enough for him to need a change. And who said it was a major portion?

I don't know if you change often, but I often times change clothes at least once per day, usually more. I didn't clam that ESB takes place in universe time within a day.

It took about 30 years; Luke grew up from infancy to manhood in about half the time it took to construct it. And slow transport ships are solved by simply having large numbers of them.

Except that the Death Star 2 was built to 60% completion in 6 months. How do you explain that? The first Death Star was due to the fact that they hadn't ever built one before, and had to get through politics to have it constructed. Once they knew how to build it, they build an even larger one to 60% completion in 6 months.

I remember reading that Genosians had their games on certain dates, so it could have been any amount of time between their being captured and executed.

Except that movie chronology shows that this was not any more than a few days, especially since only about 200 Jedi could be mustered in the initial rescue attempt.

]

Point-blank is always better than long-distance, that doesn't change the max.

Thanks for conceding that Star Trek ships need to move within a few hundred meters to hit a giant borg cube. Point blank is not always better than long distance, because point blank involves moving very close to a ship, something that in this case should have been unnecesarry and was posing a very severe risk to the existense of the human race.

The Borg could stop a beam from long-distance as well, like the archers in "Braveheart" were unable to harm the Scots, because they could see the arrows coming far in advance and simply held up their shields. Meanwhile they couldn't do this if cavalry road past at full speed and fired arrows without warning, they wouldn't be as able to stop it.

You, of course, need to provide evidence if you are to claim this.

Darkstar says that SW weapons have a 5000 KM range max, so that's thousands of miles.

Yet darkstar then claims hundred thousand km ranges for Star Trek ships when they clearly have effective ranges in the low KMs.

More like those calculations are exaggerated, like saying meteors were "vapourized" when they were simply shattered. Anyone who's even played the game "Asteroids" knows that they don't disappear when you shoot them, just break into littler ones. And that's what happens in the movie too. Including the Seismic charges, they simply smash the asteroids like Memorex shatters a glass, they don't vapourize them.

...you don't know what a blaster is, do you?

But they wouldn't say "thousands" if they meant "millions." No one with a clue would say that there were "thousands of soldiers fighting in WWII," when it was obviously millions.

And if somebody said that the entire WW2 fleet of dozens of ships could not on the modern US navy, would you take that to mean that the entire WW2 fleet strength is a few dozen, or that such a count means the larger ships?

Not to mention that the quote does not imply 1000 imperial ships as a low end/high end estimate, but said 1000 ships WITH MORE FIREPOWER etc. etc. It does not claim or imply that said 1000 ships would outnumber the imperial fleet.

Ground vehicles are a sign that a society is primitive, it would be like riding horses today: people only do it for nostalgia, or the fact that they are primitive.

"ground vehicles are a sign that a society is primitive" - Ok, now this is just proof that you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, do you? If you seriously think that ground vehicles are somehow "primitive", then you clearly have no idea what primitive means or about basic military warfare. Would you like to tell that to the military? Maybe they could learn a little about military warfare from you, because your awesome "wisdom" apparently has decided that ground vehicles are "primitive".

Compare the Senate-chamber in the prequels, to the Federation chamber in "The Undiscovered Country." There aren't several thousand times as many seats there. More like ten times, at most.

Is comparing the size of chambers to determine size really the best you can do? I guess that you also think that the Roman Empire was more populated than the modern day United States...because the Roman senate was larger than the US senate.

Likewise, Star Wars doesn't have the Prime Directive, so the Repubic populates every planet they come across, which is why their technology and culture is so monolithic.
Meanwhile those of the Federation galaxy were so different, that they can combine to form a synergy of untold power ala "Nomad."

Ah, the prime directive that gets violated a numerous amount of times; how does this matter to this debate again?

The Federation's strength is in its diversity, not just its size, and they value that so much that they refuse to taint the unique indviduality of pre-warp worlds by infesting them with post-warp technology.

Red herring, and completely untrue; the Star Wars galaxy consists of over 20 million sentient species, while the Star Trek galaxy has...a few hundred?

1. Star Trek replicators renders any such advantage moot, since they can produce just about anything in any amount, while SW industry is too dedicated; likewise it's monopolized among factions like the the Techno-union, Trade Federation and Banking Guilds who resist any competition. In short, the whole galaxy is glutted and stagnant.
Meanwhile ST is all an open market.

ROFL this "replicator renders any such advantage moot" is more clear proof that you have no idea of what you're talking about. Apparently, you think that replicators are magical items that produce stuff out of nothing, and that replicators somehow allow Star Trek to "produce just about anything in any amount". This does not explain why the Federation takes a long time producing something that porportional to the Death Star 2, which was produced to 60% completion in 6 months, would make the Federation millions of times or more slower than Star Wars in terms of industrial production.

2. There's no comparison between ST and SW firepower, when ST weapons can destroy a star with a little torpedo, or destroy a planet with a Genesis device. Meanwhile SW needs a giant 120km station to destroy a planet.

"ST weapons can destroy a star with a little torpedo" - ever heard of the sun crusher? Star Wars can do it too, and the ship that does it is far tactically and strategically superior with virtual invincibility and extremely fast speed. Your comparisons are laughably skewed, as you cherry pick evidence and use chain reaction devices as evidence for volumetric firepower. ...wow.

WHOAH, HOLD ON there cowboy! The G-canon ony says they can travel in the galaxy, not outside of it; the officer in TESB says that the Falcon can go anywhere in the galaxy, not outside of it.
And that means they can't travel even to nearby galaxies, while theirs is far, far away from ours: hundreds or thousands of galaxies away. So it's impossible for them to get here..

Ah, that's your cop out, eh? "Oh, they're a long time ago in a galaxy far far away so this scenario wouldn't even happen!"

\Not with their ships, but they could do it with other tech like warp-conduits, wormhole-travel, time-travel etc.
The Federation might also be able to do it using the DS9 wormhole, since the aliens there operate outside of linear time and space, particularly since Sisko is on of them and he's a Starfleet captain!
How many wormhole-aliens officers does Empire have, pal?

Not only are these time travel/wormhole cop outs unsupported, you clearly still have no idea as to the logistics of invading another territory, especially a freaking galaxy.

The fuel regenerates ("The Mark of Gideon," TOS3).

Details, please.

Also they could use the same space-lanes as the other ships, so they could move even faster via their superior engines.

ROFL "superior engines" what? Are you seriously going to sprout this BS? What superior engines?

Unless they scanned them from a single ship in the galaxy, or simply hacked into the Empire's computers and hijacked their entire comm-system and network from online; remember that the Federation's engineers even impressed the Vorta.
For example in "I, Borg," and "Best of Both Worlds" they were able to figure out how to destroy Borg just by using hacking and computer-viruses, so they could do the same to the Empire too. Every computer, droid and ship would be under complete Federation control, particularly since the Federation has an android that can think, the Empire doesn't (except for R2D2, and he can't talk).

[/quote]

"they were able to figure out how to destroy Borg just by using hacking and computer-viruses, so they could do the same to the Empire too" - ok, so you're either really, really bad at debating or are intentionally trolling. Please explain how you made the cleverly hidden leap in logic that hacking the borg = hacking the Empire. I'm interested in reading your explanation.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Especially if they only have no doctors, only medcal droids.

Sorry if I'm being rude, but ROFL what?

One of the main characters of Star Wars: Death Star the novel is a medical surgeon.

[2046]

Darkstar says that SW weapons have a 5000 KM range max, so that's thousands of miles.

Yet darkstar then claims hundred thousand km ranges for Star Trek ships when they clearly have effective ranges in the low KMs.

You sure you wanna jump the shark, there, captain? I mean, I was sticking up for you a little bit, earlier in the thread, but if you intend to plant your standard at low-kilometer ranges for Trek ships then I cannot help you, and moreover wouldn't try.

[Lucky]

The Star Wars Essential Atlas states a 120,000 LY diameter for the Star Wars galaxy.

But 120,000 LY diameter is not a modest size for a galaxy, and the farther you go back in time the smaller galaxies get.

All the maps I seen seem to have the scale wrong when you actually check it against known distances..

No, but unless if you think that Qui Gonn and Obi Wan stayed on Tatooine for months, then the travel time was at most a few days.

I'd guess a few days at least.
They land with a damaged hyper-drive, and then go find someone who can and will get them a new one or repair the broken one.

They then spend at least one night on Tatooine.

They spend about one day at the pod race

When was the hyperdrive fixed unless they were there for three days at least

Keep in mind many planets are parsecs away from each other. and some planetary systems are so close together that they can easily be reached with sub-light drive as shown in TESB.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Parsec

The size of the Star Wars alaxy is confirmed at 120,000 LYs in diamter.

That is contradicted by G-canon, and the maps in the very same books as I recall. They clearly put an extra zero on 12,000 on accident.

Except that the Death Star 2 was built to 60% completion in 6 months. How do you explain that? The first Death Star was due to the fact that they hadn't ever built one before, and had to get through politics to have it constructed. Once they knew how to build it, they build an even larger one to 60% completion in 6 months.

Considering the time between the end of ANH and the end of ROTJ was years, and we don't know when construction was started on the Death Star-II, I would like to know were you are getting 6 months to complete the second death star?

Except that movie chronology shows that this was not any more than a few days, especially since only about 200 Jedi could be mustered in the initial rescue attempt.

Considering there were only 10,000 jadi at the time and they had to cover all of the Republic that is a large percentage to all be in one place at one time.

Thanks for conceding that Star Trek ships need to move within a few hundred meters to hit a giant borg cube. Point blank is not always better than long distance, because point blank involves moving very close to a ship, something that in this case should have been unnecesarry and was posing a very severe risk to the existense of the human race.

He/She didn't say what you think he/she said.

Yet darkstar then claims hundred thousand km ranges for Star Trek ships when they clearly have effective ranges in the low KMs.

Read the articles, and you will notice you made a few mistakes.
http://st-v-sw.net/STSW-WeaponRange.html

...you don't know what a blaster is, do you?

Do you? It's a device that fires a bolt of plasma like energy encapsulated in a seeming magnetic field that tends to tunnel into a target and explode, or just explode on impact.

"ground vehicles are a sign that a society is primitive" - Ok, now this is just proof that you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, do you? If you seriously think that ground vehicles are somehow "primitive", then you clearly have no idea what primitive means or about basic military warfare. Would you like to tell that to the military? Maybe they could learn a little about military warfare from you, because your awesome "wisdom" apparently has decided that ground vehicles are "primitive".

Ground combat as we see it in Star Wars is a sign that orbital attack is not really an option

ROFL this "replicator renders any such advantage moot" is more clear proof that you have no idea of what you're talking about. Apparently, you think that replicators are magical items that produce stuff out of nothing, and that replicators somehow allow Star Trek to "produce just about anything in any amount". This does not explain why the Federation takes a long time producing something that porportional to the Death Star 2, which was produced to 60% completion in 6 months, would make the Federation millions of times or more slower than Star Wars in terms of industrial production.

As I recall all you need is enough energy, and you can produce just about anything. Given the UFP seem to be able to exceed E=MC^2, and treat anti-matter like it's almost water on the Earth....

Star wars has fuel shortages, but seem to use something similar to hydrocarbons for their fusion.

"ST weapons can destroy a star with a little torpedo" - ever heard of the sun crusher? Star Wars can do it too, and the ship that does it is far tactically and strategically superior with virtual invincibility and extremely fast speed. Your comparisons are laughably skewed, as you cherry pick evidence and use chain reaction devices as evidence for volumetric firepower. ...wow.

The Sun Crusher that was a one off lost tech that couldn't be reproduced, and may be N-canon along with anything that mentions it because of the ending of Episode 3.

VS

Something that can easily be produced, and is a standard weapon.

Ah, that's your cop out, eh? "Oh, they're a long time ago in a galaxy far far away so this scenario wouldn't even happen!"

You don't seem to grasp the vast distances involved. Even the fastest hyperdrive speeds we are still talking very long travel times between galaxies. We are talking life times.

Not only are these time travel/wormhole cop outs unsupported, you clearly still have no idea as to the logistics of invading another territory, especially a freaking galaxy.

Time travel is easy for the UFP in as early as Kirk's era.

"they were able to figure out how to destroy Borg just by using hacking and computer-viruses, so they could do the same to the Empire too" - ok, so you're either really, really bad at debating or are intentionally trolling. Please explain how you made the cleverly hidden leap in logic that hacking the borg = hacking the Empire. I'm interested in reading your explanation.

Where is this great computer security show in Star Wars?

[StarWarsStarTrek]

But 120,000 LY diameter is not a modest size for a galaxy, and the farther you go back in time the smaller galaxies get.

*sigh* Not this again. "modest" is far too vague to be used as an accurate calculator.

All the maps I seen seem to have the scale wrong when you actually check it against known distances..

Which, of course, you can provide evidence of, right?

I'd guess a few days at least.
They land with a damaged hyper-drive, and then go find someone who can and will get them a new one or repair the broken one.

They then spend at least one night on Tatooine.

They spend about one day at the pod race

When was the hyperdrive fixed unless they were there for three days at least

3 days...by that time, Maul was already able to get off his ship, get a speeder, binoculars and track the Jedi.

Keep in mind many planets are parsecs away from each other. and some planetary systems are so close together that they can easily be reached with sub-light drive as shown in TESB.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Parsec

Ok, so a few planets are close together.

That is contradicted by G-canon, and the maps in the very same books as I recall. They clearly put an extra zero on 12,000 on accident.

What about the claim of the Star Wars galaxy having 400 billion stars was also coincidentally a typo, eh?

Considering the time between the end of ANH and the end of ROTJ was years, and we don't know when construction was started on the Death Star-II, I would like to know were you are getting 6 months to complete the second death star?

I don't have the novel with me, but iirc it was mentioned there.

Considering there were only 10,000 jadi at the time and they had to cover all of the Republic that is a large percentage to all be in one place at one time.

Eh, the Jedi Temple alone had more Jedi than that.

He/She didn't say what you think he/she said.

He/she claimed that point blank is always better than long range, an assertion that is laughably ridiculous to the extreme. If he/she were a commander, he/she would probably have artillery fire at point blank range...and then get discharged.

Read the articles, and you will notice you made a few mistakes.
http://st-v-sw.net/STSW-WeaponRange.html

Ah, so darkstar is an even bigger wanker and gives the Enterprise an effective range of 200,000 km, despite the fact that most Trek battles are fought within visual range, sometimes within 1 km.

Do you? It's a device that fires a bolt of plasma like energy encapsulated in a seeming magnetic field that tends to tunnel into a target and explode, or just explode on impact.

And then the responder decided to respond to that...with examples of seismic charges and space weapons.

Ground combat as we see it in Star Wars is a sign that orbital attack is not really an option

Ok Lucky, so you have no idea what you're talking about either, eh? Your stunning lack of knowledge of common sense and basic military warfare is suprising.

As I recall all you need is enough energy,

That, and matter to convert it from.

and you can produce just about anything.

More bullshit, eh? Explain then, why the Federation doesn't produce armies of galaxy class starships from a random asteroid, or why Nero didn't produce a huge amount of red matter from some random block of matter.

Given the UFP seem to be able to exceed E=MC^2,

Which you provide no evidence for that they can exceed mass-energy conversion, more proof that you have no idea what you're talking about.

and treat anti-matter like it's almost water on the Earth....

So are you saying that they're going to make stuff out of anti matter? ROFL?

Star wars has fuel shortages, but seem to use something similar to hydrocarbons for their fusion.

Ah, more schematics, eh? The fact is that Star Wars's power generation is thousands of times superior to that of Federation power generation, regardless of however many fancy technicalities you want to point out, or utter bullshit ("eh they can exceed mass-energy!").

The Sun Crusher that was a one off lost tech that couldn't be reproduced,

Really? And did the Federation ever reproduce sun busting torpedos, or the genesis device, in vast amounts? Nope.

and may be N-canon along with anything that mentions it because of the ending of Episode 3.

What?

VS

Something that can easily be produced, and is a standard weapon.

Eh, I might not have watched enough Star Trek, because I don't remember Federation ships using genesis devices.

You don't seem to grasp the vast distances involved. Even the fastest hyperdrive speeds we are still talking very long travel times between galaxies. We are talking life times.

Then why is this website existant? Surely there can be no point to the debate if, according to you, it couldn't happen!

Time travel is easy for the UFP in as early as Kirk's era.

No it isn't, because otherwise the Federation would have wiped out the borg, the dominion, etc.

Where is this great computer security show in Star Wars?

And where is this great computer security shown from the borg, Mr. Hypocrite?

[User1462]

And where is this great computer security shown from the borg, Mr. Hypocrite?

The Borg were susceptibe to hacking only through their own members. This happened three times:

1. In "Best of Both Worlds, II," Picard and Data were able to shut the Borg cube down through Locutus, causing it to explode.
2. In "I, Borg," Geordi and Data managed to prepare a computer-virus that they were going to plant into Hugh, which would infect the collective and destroy it.
3. In "Endgame," Adm. Janeway likewise used advanced future Borg-knowledge to infect herself with a computer-virus that entered into the Borg on assimilation; however this is an exception since it involves time-travel.

In any event, nobody just hacked into the Borg (though "The Unimatrix" was a real red pill).

In contrast, R2 proved able to stick his probe into any socket on the Death Star, Geonosis, Bespin or elsewhere else and have his way with their systems.
This indicates that a Starfleet engineer and science officer could take over the whole Empire by remote-control, rewrite their security-codes and lock them out of their own systems.

No it isn't, because otherwise the Federation would have wiped out the borg, the dominion, etc.

If you've never heard of the Temporal Prime Directive:
"YOU ARE FORBIDDEN TO INTERFERE WITH HUMAN HISTORY!"
However this clearly wouldn't apply to the SW galaxy, since it's stagnant.

Really? And did the Federation ever reproduce sun busting torpedos, or the genesis device, in vast amounts? Nope.

They can, but they're about trekkin' not war-- what part of "Star Trek" did you fail to diffrentiate from "Star Wars?"
Kruge wanted the Genesis device as a weapon, but Kirk would sooner die than give it to him; fortunately it worked out the other way around.
Also, a Constitution-class ship can already destroy all life on a planet ("Bread and Circuses, A Taste of Armageddon") so it's really nothing more than a wasteful weapon of terror, and the Federation doesn't do that.

The fact is that Star Wars's power generation is thousands of times superior to that of Federation power generation, regardless of however many fancy technicalities you want to point out, or utter bullshit ("eh they can exceed mass-energy!").

And a simple glunk from a pillow-fight produces far more energy than a slight thrust with a knife (or a pin)- which would you rather suffer? It's not just about comparing raw energy, no matter what Wong says, he's wong about the silly notion that it's all about energy-figure size. I'm sure a hive of killer-bees produces very little energy- so why not go up and kick it?
The DS would similarly be a sitting cow against warp-driven ships, and stung to death in short order.
Of course if you get enough hydrogen and a big enough fusion-reactor, you can exceed a starship's total energy-output; heck, the sun alone proves that!
It's a matter of mass-to-energy ratio, which is obviously much higher for anti-matter than fusion.

Quote:Given the UFP seem to be able to exceed E=MC^2,

Which you provide no evidence for that they can exceed mass-energy conversion, more proof that you have no idea what you're talking about.

In "Obsession," one ounce of anti-matter is able to rip away half of a planet's atmosphere.
Normally, one ounce of antimatter is only about .8 megaton's worth of energy, but obviously ripping away half a planet's atmosphere is a hella lot more than that.

Quote:and you can produce just about anything.

More bullshit, eh? Explain then, why the Federation doesn't produce armies of galaxy class starships from a random asteroid, or why Nero didn't produce a huge amount of red matter from some random block of matter.

That would be where the "just about" part comes in :D

Quote:Ground combat as we see it in Star Wars is a sign that orbital attack is not really an option


Ok Lucky, so you have no idea what you're talking about either, eh? Your stunning lack of knowledge of common sense and basic military warfare is suprising.

Or maybe he's seen "A Piece of the Action" where the ship's phasers rendered everyone unconscious in a Chicago-style urban gang-war. Meanwhile in AotC, they couldn't do anything like that, they just charged in with lightsabers and Clones.

Ah, so darkstar is an even bigger wanker and gives the Enterprise an effective range of 200,000 km, despite the fact that most Trek battles are fought within visual range, sometimes within 1 km.

It's 300,000km, and of course battles are fought at point-blank range since it gives an advantage when the ships are otherwise fairly evenly-matched.

He/she claimed that point blank is always better than long range, an assertion that is laughably ridiculous to the extreme. If he/she were a commander, he/she would probably have artillery fire at point blank range...and then get discharged.

Artillery works by firing from out-of-range of other weapons, duh-- and on targets that can't move very fast, like ground-troops. You're mixing contexts, and making yourself look silly.

However obviously artillery isn't used on fighter-jets-- gee, wonder why?
Because they'd move out of the way, perhaps?
Amazing how a little knowledge is a dangerous thing... to the one who has it; your point is total non-sequitur.

What about the claim of the Star Wars galaxy having 400 billion stars was also coincidentally a typo, eh?

No, just a typical EU-fanwank.

modest" is far too vague to be used as an accurate calculator.

"Our Milky Way galaxy is a pretty typical large galaxy. Most of the stars are in a disk that is about 100,000 light years across in diameter and 3000 light years thick. Most of the galaxies in the universe are actually smaller than the Milky Way. For example, most of the dozens of galaxies in our Local Group are at least ten times smaller in diameter.
-- Michael Loewenstein and David Marsden for "Ask an Astrophysicist"
Good enough for me, i.e. "modest" meaning "average."
That would put the SW galaxy at 1/1000 the mass of our own, with about 100 million stars.
(Why are warsies so obsessed with size, anyway? I have NO idea; a case of "galaxy envy?" :D

[Khas]

Was the Sun Crusher ever produced in vast amounts? Nope.

The 200,000 km range for the original Enterprise is a bit wanked, only a bit more than twice the stated phaser range, at least of TOS.

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Constituti ... al_systems

As to why Nero didn't just replicate up massive amounts of red matter, well, it turns out that red matter needs special equipment to create, equipment that only the Vulcan Science Academy had as of 2387.

That "they can exceed mass energy bullshit" is used by the Death Star's beam.

And, according to the Death Star novel, which I have, you'd need something as big as the Death Star to house a hypermatter reactor. An attempt to put one on an ISD resulted in said ISD getting vaporized.

The reason that we don't see Federation starships using Genesis devices outside TWoK is because Project Genesis was cancelled, due to the protomatter used in it causing the planet to destabilize and eventually explode.

While the Federation might have time travel, you forget, so do the Borg. The reason that the Borg don't just time travel and assimilate species is because if they travel to a point where the species is weak enough to be easily overpowered by the Borg, then the Borg would have no use assimilating them for their technology or numbers.

And you may also want to consider the long-term effects of time-travel. Sure, if I went back in time and killed Hitler before he could start World War II, I'd save millions of lives, but I'd also create a lot of other problems. Anti-Semitism would probably be standard practice instead of something that's frowned upon. Racism might also be more acceptable. Also, there'd be the little fact that my maternal grandparents would have never met, thus preventing me from ever being born, and killing Hitler. So while destroying the Borg early on might solve one problem, there could very well be a shitload of others that pop up if that was done.