To what extent is continuity jettisoned in Enterprise?

[Who is like God arbour]

I can't justify anything in Enterprise, since continuity is completely jettisoned, (with regards to TOS)

I have read such sentiments again and again.

But I haven't noticed an unsually strong violence of continuity in comparison to other Star Trek serieses.

To what extent is continuity jettisoned in Enterprise?

What exactly conflict with the earlier shooted serieses, which are set in a later timeline?

[Jedi Master Spock]

Most of the problems were introduced early in the series.

The transporter seems to be a very new technology in TOS. See Dr. McCoy.

The common food replicator and holodeck seemed new in TNG.

The NX-01 resembles, quite strikingly, late 24th century ships, e.g., the Akira.

The Klingon Empire is centered in the Beta Quadrant. Four days' drive from Earth for a Warp 5 starship?

What's the flap about Spock being the (half) Vulcan officer of Starfleet if Vulcans were serving as first officers on Earth ships before the Federation even existed?

The existence of an entire region (the Expanse) full of new large and technologically well-developed civilizations (e.g., the Xindi) ... which have never been mentioned in TOS and supposedly did not go suddenly extinct after ENT.

Nobody took notes on the Borg when they first ran into them? Or the Ferengi, which were first contacted by Picard roughly two centuries later on the much-expanded frontier of Federation space?

Mostly there are just a lot of careless mistakes, which are understandable given that TOS was produced forty years ago and ENT only a few years ago, but some were just boneheaded. People said the same thing about Voyager too, of course - consistency gets harder with each new series.

[AnonymousRedShirtEnsign]

Don't forget view screens, Romulans with warp drive and a not so disastrous Klingon first contact. Archer and Reed escape Rura Penthe over a century before Kirk and McCoy become the first to escape. Not that TNG and DS9 didn't have their offenses, but they just weren't as frequent, or blatant.

[GStone]

Most of the problems were introduced early in the series.

The transporter seems to be a very new technology in TOS. See Dr. McCoy.

It seemed new, but even in ENT it isn't used that much, so it could have stemmed from that.

The common food replicator and holodeck seemed new in TNG.

Replicators work on the whole item. Even TOS had cooks, like during The Undiscovered Country. The holodeck of TNG might have been new because the species that showed Tucker theirs may not have ever shared the tech with them.

The NX-01 resembles, quite strikingly, late 24th century ships, e.g., the Akira.

Chaulk it up to Cochran's influence from seeing the E-E and working on a design the best he could with his more limited knowledge of warp.

The Klingon Empire is centered in the Beta Quadrant. Four days' drive from Earth for a Warp 5 starship?

There is much insistance on alpha quadrent this and alpha quadrent that. That gives the impression the beta one is crappy. With klingons being so durable and strong, they must have evolved in a more harsh environment, which the beta quadrent could be rife with.

What's the flap about Spock being the (half) Vulcan officer of Starfleet if Vulcans were serving as first officers on Earth ships before the Federation even existed?

Wasn't her service more of a trial thing? I thought she had been fired from her job in vulcan society. The importance placed on Spock being there could be just that it was exceedingly rare that a vulcan would be on a Federation ship with humans.

The existence of an entire region (the Expanse) full of new large and technologically well-developed civilizations (e.g., the Xindi) ... which have never been mentioned in TOS and supposedly did not go suddenly extinct after ENT.

How many people in France today referece the Franco-Prussian war from the late 19th century?

Nobody took notes on the Borg when they first ran into them? Or the Ferengi, which were first contacted by Picard roughly two centuries later on the much-expanded frontier of Federation space?

Borg- Section 31?
Ferengi- Extremely limited contact made first contact much later, though 'first contact' is more about official meetings than the absolutely first encounter anyone ever had. Take when Riker was undercover on that planet he got beat up on in First Contact. Picard said first contact was done after initial surveillance because of disaster with the klingons.

Don't forget view screens, Romulans with warp drive and a not so disastrous Klingon first contact. Archer and Reed escape Rura Penthe over a century before Kirk and McCoy become the first to escape. Not that TNG and DS9 didn't have their offenses, but they just weren't as frequent, or blatant.

Viewscreens?

I thought the warp-romulan thing was warp core powered warp. They had fusion powered ones.

The Archer/Reed thing could be a goof, I guess.

[Cpl Kendall]

Don't forget view screens, Romulans with warp drive and a not so disastrous Klingon first contact. Archer and Reed escape Rura Penthe over a century before Kirk and McCoy become the first to escape. Not that TNG and DS9 didn't have their offenses, but they just weren't as frequent, or blatant.

Not the Romulans only having impulse again. The Enterprise was running at warp for the majority of the engagement and thats leaving out the absurdity of a sublight vessel attacking and engaging targets over intersteller distances with only a sublight drive.

[Who is like God arbour]

The transporter seems to be a very new technology in TOS. See Dr. McCoy.

I had never the impression, that in TOS the transporter is a new technology. In TNG, Dr. Pulaski and Reginald Barclay have feared the transporter too. I don't think, that the fear of Dr. McCoy evidence that the transporter is a new technology. Even in Mission Farpoint, he has used a shuttle although the technology was well developed and common in meantime .

But maybe there was an explicit statement in TOS, which I don't know or which was deleted in the version (synchronised in my native language) I have seen.

The common food replicator and holodeck seemed new in TNG.

It was first shown in TNG. But as far as I know, it was never said, that the technology wasn't etablished in the UFP already. The U.S.S. Enterprise N.C.C. 1701-B could have had it already.

Correct is, as far as I know, that in TOS, the UFP had no such technology.

But in Enterprise, the UFP also had no such technology. Other races had have it. At least, I haven't seen a food replicator or holodeck on the Enterprise or on Earth.

But I haven't seen all episodes from Enterprise. Maybe I have missed the episode in question.

The NX-01 resembles, quite strikingly, late 24th century ships, e.g., the Akira.

Retro-look?

What is good intersperses itself?

Coincidence?

The Klingon Empire is centered in the Beta Quadrant. Four days' drive from Earth for a Warp 5 starship?

Velocities and distances were never comprehensible in Star Trek.

But Earth could lie in the Alpha Quadrant, but near the border to the Beta Quadrant? Then the Klingon Empire could be centered in the Beta Quadrant but it have not to be very far away from Earth.

What's the flap about Spock being the (half) Vulcan officer of Starfleet if Vulcans were serving as first officers on Earth ships before the Federation even existed?

Where was said, that Spock was the first Vulcan, who has served on a Earth ship?

As far as I know, he was the first Vulcan, who has attended Starfleet Academy and was a fully-fledged Starfleet-Officer.

T'Paul was at first only an observer (and adviser) by order of the Vulcan High Command. Later, she was only an "honorary Starfleet Officer". But she has never weared regularly a Starfleet-uniform - as far as I know.

The existence of an entire region (the Expanse) full of new large and technologically well-developed civilizations (e.g., the Xindi) ... which have never been mentioned in TOS and supposedly did not go suddenly extinct after ENT.

And there was no civilizations or regions in TOS, which was never mentioned in TNG or DS9 or Voyager or vice versa?

Nobody took notes on the Borg when they first ran into them? Or the Ferengi, which were first contacted by Picard roughly two centuries later on the much-expanded frontier of Federation space?

That have to be episodes, I haven't seen. I can't remember that Ferengi or Borg were in Enterprise.

But I second the explaination from GStone:

Borg- Section 31?
Ferengi- Extremely limited contact made first contact much later, though 'first contact' is more about official meetings than the absolutely first encounter anyone ever had. Take when Riker was undercover on that planet he got beat up on in First Contact. Picard said first contact was done after initial surveillance because of disaster with the klingons.

Maybe the First-Contact protokols weren't established in Enterprise.
At this time, every contact with a new civilication was a new contact. Maybe not every contact was reported. Imagine such a procedure in the pilot of Enterprise on Riegel, where they have encountered reams of unknown races.

Mostly there are just a lot of careless mistakes, which are understandable given that TOS was produced forty years ago and ENT only a few years ago, but some were just boneheaded. People said the same thing about Voyager too, of course - consistency gets harder with each new series.

Exactly!

But I haven't seen so many inconsistencies.

That's why I have asked this question.

[Who is like God arbour]

...Archer and Reed escape Rura Penthe over a century before Kirk and McCoy become the first to escape...

Was it said as an objective fact, that Kirk and McCoy was the first, who escaped from Rura Penthe?

Or was it Klingon Prison Propaganda?

Romulans with warp drive

a not so disastrous Klingon first contact

Where was said something to this?

[Cpl Kendall]

Romulans with warp drive

a not so disastrous Klingon first contact

Where was said something to this?

Picard says in an episode where Riker is captured while performing survaillance on a planet that is developing warp drive (episode name escapes me) that "disatrous First Contact with the Klingon Empire lead to decades of war."

[Kazeite]

This whole "Spock being the first Vulcan in Starfleet" seems to be contradicted within TOS itself - remember USS Defiant? Crewed entirely by Vulcans?

To me, Enterprise shows signs or something I hereby call "was-wasn't-is" - that is, something on Enterprise looks like something straight from TNG, even if TOS had it differently. Rank pips, of example. Voice-activated "replicators". Touchpad screens. Tricorders. etc.

[Cpl Kendall]

This whole "Spock being the first Vulcan in Starfleet" seems to be contradicted within TOS itself - remember USS Defiant? Crewed entirely by Vulcans?

I believe the ship was actually the Intrepid, perhaps the crew was simply transfered from Vulcans fleet after Spock joined Starfleet.

To me, Enterprise shows signs or something I hereby call "was-wasn't-is" - that is, something on Enterprise looks like something straight from TNG, even if TOS had it differently. Rank pips, of example. Voice-activated "replicators". Touchpad screens. Tricorders. etc.

From what I saw of ENT it seemed like TNG with everything in chrome. I stopped watching in Season 2 though. I heard it got better after Manny Coto got onboard and stopped the madness.

[Mike DiCenso]

Jedi Master Spock wrote:Most of the problems were introduced early in the series.

The transporter seems to be a very new technology in TOS. See Dr. McCoy.

Actually, no. Especially since we see in the "Menegerie, Part I & II" that transporters were around and reliable more than 13 years prior to TOS' 1st season. In TNG's "Realm of Fear", transporters are mentioned as existing as far back as the early 2200's, so that doesn't wash.

The common food replicator and holodeck seemed new in TNG.

The protien resequencers were clearly not replicators, either, and when the NX-01 crew encounters a TNG style replicator in "Dead Stop" (ENT2), they clearly have never seen anything like it before. Like the E-1701, the NX-01 still carries a supply of real foodstuffs, and even has a cook (Chef).


The NX-01 resembles, quite strikingly, late 24th century ships, e.g., the Akira.

The Klingon Empire is centered in the Beta Quadrant. Four days' drive from Earth for a Warp 5 starship?

Not really an issue since Klingon space was only about 2 days or less away at warp 7 in ST:TMP.

What's the flap about Spock being the (half) Vulcan officer of Starfleet if Vulcans were serving as first officers on Earth ships before the Federation even existed?

Fanon. Clear and simple fanon. Nothing in TOS ever directly states that Spock is the first ever Vulcan.

The existence of an entire region (the Expanse) full of new large and technologically well-developed civilizations (e.g., the Xindi) ... which have never been mentioned in TOS and supposedly did not go suddenly extinct after ENT.

There are a number of TNG-era races that are supposed to have been known in the TOS-era, yet TOS has no mention of these races, either...

Nobody took notes on the Borg when they first ran into them? Or the Ferengi, which were first contacted by Picard roughly two centuries later on the much-expanded frontier of Federation space?

The Borg were an unusual result of the post-ST:FC changes to the timeline. The Borg sphere mentioned in that episode is the same one the E-E blasted in FC. They even threw some lines in "Regeneration" that Cochrane had tried to tell people about them (the Borg), and no one believed him.

Mostly there are just a lot of careless mistakes, which are understandable given that TOS was produced forty years ago and ENT only a few years ago, but some were just boneheaded. People said the same thing about Voyager too, of course - consistency gets harder with each new series.

ST:ENT's 4th season gave a good out: since Section 31 existed pre-Federation, we can assume that they are responsible for supressing a great deal of these things.
-Mike

[Who is like God arbour]

Picard says in an episode where Riker is captured while performing survaillance on a planet that is developing warp drive (episode name escapes me) that "disatrous First Contact with the Klingon Empire lead to decades of war."

PICARD
Chancellor, no starship mission
is more dangerous than first
contact. We never know what we
face when we open the door to a
new world. How will we be
greeted? What are the dangers?
Centuries ago, a disastrous first
contact with the Klingon Empire
led to decades of war. It was
decided then that we must do
surveillance before making
contact. It was a controversial
decision. But I believe it
prevents more problems than it
creates.

He has not said, that the Klingons have just developed the warp drive.

And there was really a war between the Klingons and the UFP because of cultural diversity.

Sure, it was not immediate after the first contact in the first Enterprise episode but the threat of war was always there.

This war could have maybe avoided, if the Klingons and the UFP had better understanded each other. Thus the decision to surveillance before making contact.

And I doubt, that Picard wanted to give a lesson in UFP history. I think, he has simplified the reasons for the decision.

A civilisation, who has just developed warp drive, shouldn't be a real military threat to the UFP.

But a civilisation, who has the warp drive already in common use and with which a first contact was made could be such a thread.

[Cpl Kendall]

He has not said, that the Klingons have just developed the warp drive.

Umm, ok? I think we have a misunderstanding here, I never claimed that they had just discovered warp drive.

And there was really a war between the Klingons and the UFP because of cultural diversity.

Sure, it was not immediate after the first contact in the first Enterprise episode but the threat of war was always there.

This war could have maybe avoided, if the Klingons and the UFP had better understanded each other. Thus the decision to surveillance before making contact.

It probably would have appeased serious Star Trek fans as well if they had depicted a Human-Klingon war right after First Contact with the Klingons or after the Augment Arc.

And I doubt, that Picard wanted to give a lesson in UFP history. I think, he has simplified the reasons for the decision.

A civilisation, who has just developed warp drive, shouldn't be a real military threat to the UFP.

But a civilisation, who has the warp drive already in common use and with which a first contact was made could be such a thread.

I think it's safe to say that he simplified the explanation. He would be trying to limited cultural contamination by keeping UFP history to himself by only revealing what was necessary to the mission.

[Who is like God arbour]

He has not said, that the Klingons have just developed the warp drive.

Umm, ok? I think we have a misunderstanding here, I never claimed that they had just discovered warp drive.

Excuse me!

And there was really a war between the Klingons and the UFP because of cultural diversity.

Sure, it was not immediate after the first contact in the first Enterprise episode but the threat of war was always there.

This war could have maybe avoided, if the Klingons and the UFP had better understanded each other. Thus the decision to surveillance before making contact.

It probably would have appeased serious Star Trek fans as well if they had depicted a Human-Klingon war right after First Contact with the Klingons or after the Augment Arc.

But only, if it happened so. If it was only a simplified explanation [see below], there is no reason to expect such a war.

And I doubt, that Picard wanted to give a lesson in UFP history. I think, he has simplified the reasons for the decision.

A civilisation, who has just developed warp drive, shouldn't be a real military threat to the UFP.

But a civilisation, who has the warp drive already in common use and with which a first contact was made could be such a thread.

I think it's safe to say that he simplified the explanation. He would be trying to limited cultural contamination by keeping UFP history to himself by only revealing what was necessary to the mission.

I agree.

[Cpl Kendall]

But only, if it happened so. If it was only a simplified explanation [see below], there is no reason to expect such a war.

But why would he say there was a war if there wasn't a war. Picard isn't known for being dishonest. Unless he was referring to official UFP First Contact and not Human First Contact but thats some pretty fine hair splitting.