Rebuttal to darkstar's website

[Mr. Oragahn]

You mean Porkins and R2D2.

[Lucky]

Again: my point exactly. EU-figures brag them at like 50 kilotons/shot or something. I don't see Hiroshima and Nagasaki there- but I do see a fat man and a little boy hehe (i.e. Luke and Vader).

"He tightened down on the trigger, pulsing kilojoules of scarlet energy into an eyeball's cockpit." [ "X-Wing: The Krytos Trap" p.54 ]

[Mr. Oragahn]

Again: my point exactly. EU-figures brag them at like 50 kilotons/shot or something. I don't see Hiroshima and Nagasaki there- but I do see a fat man and a little boy hehe (i.e. Luke and Vader).

"He tightened down on the trigger, pulsing kilojoules of scarlet energy into an eyeball's cockpit." [ "X-Wing: The Krytos Trap" p.54 ]

Best understood as hundreds of kilojoules in stutter fire mode. If only to stick with general yields, because kilojoules, that's just retarded.
Of course, in light of TWCS, where you can punch through the glass... this requirement is not legit anymore. :/

[Mr. Oragahn]

WILGA's correct in that the adjective modest is used without any evidence that it implies a reference to the structure of the SW galaxy. Thus far, it's only a comparison of the SW galaxy's size against ALL other galaxies around, no matter the type.

But as I said, since it's based on all that's around them, albeit unlikely, it's always possible to assume that they're in a cluster choke full of giant galaxies.

[User1460]

You mean Porkins and R2D2.

No, I mean Vader and Luke, they were the "Fat Man and Little Boy" who were supposedly packing 20KT each. (But you're right, they werent).

[User1460]

Again: my point exactly. EU-figures brag them at like 50 kilotons/shot or something. I don't see Hiroshima and Nagasaki there- but I do see a fat man and a little boy hehe (i.e. Luke and Vader).

"He tightened down on the trigger, pulsing kilojoules of scarlet energy into an eyeball's cockpit." [ "X-Wing: The Krytos Trap" p.54 ]

Ok, you do realize the difference between joules, and tons?
I'll tell you: a factor over 4 billion.
With a "B."
4.184 Billion, to be as precise as no matter.

[Lucky]

Again: my point exactly. EU-figures brag them at like 50 kilotons/shot or something. I don't see Hiroshima and Nagasaki there- but I do see a fat man and a little boy hehe (i.e. Luke and Vader).

"He tightened down on the trigger, pulsing kilojoules of scarlet energy into an eyeball's cockpit." [ "X-Wing: The Krytos Trap" p.54 ]

Ok, you do realize the difference between joules, and tons?
I'll tell you: a factor over 4 billion.
With a "B."
4.184 Billion, to be as precise as no matter.

It's the only kilo anything that I know of outside the ICS, and it's a fun quote to bring up when someone tries making fighter fire power out to be in the tons.

[2046]

Well damn, sorry I missed most of the fun here.

While most of the points have been addressed, I'll go ahead and waste my own two cents on a few points:

Star Wars is a galaxy spanning civilization.

Only in the EU.

Your weapons ranges are cherry picking the lowest Star Wars ranges and the highest Star Trek ranges.

Dead wrong. The highest known Star Wars range examples as of that writing were used. So not only are you wrong, you then assert that I intentionally hid facts. Do you have any specific examples you'd like to cite that you feel I intentionally left out?

Meanwhile, the Battle of Endor shows Star Wars ships battling at thousands of miles range.

The above is not such an example . . . indeed, I'm aware of no exchanges of fire at such range. Please enlighten me if you haven't already (I admit I didn't pore through the entire thread).

7. You ignore the huge population and industrial disparity and how Star Wars is at least several thousand times larger than Star Trek.

Canonically, this is true. However, it is also true that the Clone Wars, described by some as a galactic brushfire, and which canonically features mere millions of troops, was bankrupting the Republic (per "Heroes on Both Sides"[TCW3] et cetera). Indeed, in the latest episode (Friday's "Pursuit of Peace"), the concept of an additional five million troops is enough to make Bail Organa go bonkers since the Republic's already operating in deep debt.

Compare this to the loss of seven million Cardassian soldiers in two years of war ("The Changing Face of Evil"[DS9-7]), a war the Cardassians, who were allied with the Dominion, were generally winning.

Unless you want to argue that the Cardies had suffered 50-100 percent losses, then it seems to me that they probably had many more than 7 million on the front lines. And given the unit counts in the Star Wars canon, I'd almost be willing to say that the Republic and Cardassian forces were probably about equal.

Frankly, on that basis I'm starting to think that my Overview page military size category ought to go into "toss-up" rather than "Empire".

While we could argue that the Empire is significantly more militarized, frankly I don't see evidence that it is thousands/millions of times more militarized than the Republic at war.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Damn, the Republic was running on some very low budget there! This is ridiculous. Or the Kaminoans must be asking for absurd amounts of money per batch.
They have quite a monopoly on the management of clones as well, as we saw on in that outer territory hospital. Perhaps they're pretending only them can correctly take care of clones.
I mean, how much the creation and training of a clone can cost? 100,000 credits? That's completely counter intuitive to the assumed idea that they're expandable and quite cheap.
Perhaps we were very wrong about that?
Why would the Kaminoans sell their magnificent clones for cookies?
Not to say that with the war, economy for many worlds that don't produce anything related to the military or sufficiently close to logistics isn't going to live well, and obviously they'll cut on the tithes. Expect isolationism as well for some of them.
And with the Republic getting less money, private manufacturers aren't even going to be able to sell much. I can see the Republic's equivalent of a central bank, if there's anything like that, pumping out fiat credits, or if they don't have such a bank, borrowing like crazy while they're obviously becoming less and less solvable (thus interest rates skyrocket), bringing the dataries' value down to the point where the Republic can't buy shit with even with billions of old decicredits. That and the Hutts and the CIS offering their own business opportunities...

[Lucky]

Again: my point exactly. EU-figures brag them at like 50 kilotons/shot or something. I don't see Hiroshima and Nagasaki there- but I do see a fat man and a little boy hehe (i.e. Luke and Vader).

"He tightened down on the trigger, pulsing kilojoules of scarlet energy into an eyeball's cockpit." [ "X-Wing: The Krytos Trap" p.54 ]

Best understood as hundreds of kilojoules in stutter fire mode. If only to stick with general yields, because kilojoules, that's just retarded.
Of course, in light of TWCS, where you can punch through the glass... this requirement is not legit anymore. :/

Why stutter fire mode? I'd think a good 999 kilojoules would match the movies well.

[Picard]

The above is not such an example . . . indeed, I'm aware of no exchanges of fire at such range. Please enlighten me if you haven't already (I admit I didn't pore through the entire thread).

I faced that argument several times on SDN, and I must say it is completely false, probably originating from either EU or some Wars vs debaters. Even if novelization does support such range (and I do not remember any passage from it that can be interpreted in that way - then again, it is long time since I read it last time), it is still contradicted by movie itself. Fleets were not more than 50-100 kilometers away in movie, and that was before shooting started ("fighters coming!" moment).

EDIT:

Dead wrong. The highest known Star Wars range examples as of that writing were used. So not only are you wrong, you then assert that I intentionally hid facts. Do you have any specific examples you'd like to cite that you feel I intentionally left out?

ICS II and III, maybe? He is obviously referring to EU.

[Praeothmin]

WILGA's correct in that the adjective modest is used without any evidence that it implies a reference to the structure of the SW galaxy. Thus far, it's only a comparison of the SW galaxy's size against ALL other galaxies around, no matter the type.

But as I said, since it's based on all that's around them, albeit unlikely, it's always possible to assume that they're in a cluster choke full of giant galaxies.

But then we still have Sullust and Endor being only "hundreds of LY apart", and Tattooine and Geonosis being les than a PARSEC apart... :)

so that a huge number of them could move in and shoot while cloaked, and knock out the entire Cube before the Borg had a chance to adapt.

Ah, no, the Defiant had a cloaking device on loan from the Romulans in order to spy on the Dominion, KSW, and they were forbidden to use it in the Alpha quadrant, according to the terms of the loan, terms which Sisko and company violated a few times... :)

[StarWarsStarTrek]

*sigh* You guys do realize that Vader isn't an astrologist, right? Him casually musing about the galaxy being modest sized is too vague to override the Atlas SPECIFICALLY SAYING that the Star Wars galaxy is 120,000 light years across. The Star Wars galaxy might be in a portion of the universe where galaxies are typically that large.

[Praeothmin]

*sigh* You guys do realize that Vader isn't an astrologist, right? Him casually musing about the galaxy being modest sized is too vague to override the Atlas SPECIFICALLY SAYING that the Star Wars galaxy is 120,000 light years across. The Star Wars galaxy might be in a portion of the universe where galaxies are typically that large.

Read my post just above yours... :)

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Where are those quotes from?