List of expanded universe sources incompatible with ICS

[Picard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIM0ReXh ... re=related

Interested? Sub-kiloton weaponry on Leviathan.

One guy on FactPile posted that as... This is his comment:

"Turbolasers vs Phasers:Turbolasers wins.

You can see in this video that darth malak’s flagship turbolasers are very fast and strong,he orbital bombardment Taris Cityscape in dust with few turbolasers."

After that, he gave that link.

[Mr. Oragahn]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIM0ReXhenc

Aah... the 90s and their cutscenes...

Oh. Wait.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIM0ReXh ... re=related

Interested? Sub-kiloton weaponry on Leviathan.

One guy on FactPile posted that as... This is his comment:

"Turbolasers vs Phasers:Turbolasers wins.

You can see in this video that darth malak’s flagship turbolasers are very fast and strong,he orbital bombardment Taris Cityscape in dust with few turbolasers."

After that, he gave that link.

A few????...

the ship was firing loads and from what i saw the hits only destroyed the tops of buildings they hit and not even the entire buildings.

Get a idea of the number of shots fired over the period of time we see in that clip (from the close up it seems to be one shot per second so they must have lots of guns close together as the brodside view shows a seeminly much higher ROF).

Lets go low end with 10 guns firing 2 shots per second for the 31 second clip, so 620 shots.

Then compare the rather piss poor damage we see to the sort of devastation 620 x Davy Crockett's bombarding a large city, personally id say the Davy Crockett's would do more damage than we see in that clip.

Davy Crockett's are 0.001 - 0.002 kiloton nukes...lol.

[Mike DiCenso]

That was decidedly low kilotons to sub-kiloton. KoTR is not a good argument for high-end Wars firepower. For a comparison, check out the Vaadwaur vs Voyager video here at 5:06 and this one here then look back again to the KoTR cutscene footage again. The KoTR-era Wars tech is at best comparable, and in some scenes, substantially weaker than the Turei plasma weapons.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

Again, in the latest thread about SW weapons yields at SBC, I've seen Leo1 dig an old quote which, apparently, assured him points in his argumentation of super yields, when the ICS was attacked.
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=456
This one was nothing new, as he brought it up two years ago here:
http://forums.spacebattles.com/showpost ... tcount=211

"Salm reached out and touched the holographic world. The island he selected grew up in place of the world of which it was part. As the image expanded, the computer added buildings, mountains, ion-cannon batteries, and other details of military importance. Two steep mountain chains - the edges of an extinct Volcano's crater - enclosed the base like parentheses.

"The island, you see, is part of an old Volcano. The generators are geothermal and old and not up to the strain of raising the shield and powering the ion cannons."

"And if they choose to go turtle instead of trying to shoot?"

"The bomber pilot traced a circle around what would have originally been the edge of the crater. To the south the wall had broken down almost completely
and much of the base had been built on the flat stretch of land that linked the volcano and the bay. On the north side of the crater the wall had begun to erode,but it was just a small divot compared to the gap in the south.

"The shield has to cover everything from the beach to the tops of the mountains. On the North side it should be possible to blast through the mountain and open up enough of a gap to let our bombers in. Once we're under the shield, the generators go and its over."

"Grand Isle would be no match for two squadrons of Y-wings. In addition to two laser cannons, the Y-wings sported twin ion cannons and two proton torpedo launchers. Each ship carried eight torpedoes, which meant either of the squadrons packed enough firepower to turn the lush, verdant landscape of Grand Isle into a black, smoking mass of liquid rock."

Let's begin with this last piece.
Isn't it curious that laser cannons and ion cannons as mounted on an Y-wing, which are not ought to be anything exceptional, are listed along torpedoes supposedly capable of turning "the lush, verdant landscape of Grand Isle into a black, smoking mass of liquid rock"?

Or could it be that Stackpole imagined that the liquid rock would be the result of the bombardment of a base built around a geothermal plant, somewhere around or inside the caldera of an old volcano?

Secondly, doing what Leo thought should be taken as a literal description of huge firepower would result into destroying most of the island. Indeed, how can you hope covering it entirely with molten rock by merely using proton torpedoes, which are thermonuclear bombs?

Let's imagine for a moment that the island is a circle that's 3 km wide. We want to melt-slag its surface down to a depth of one meter.
That's a volume of 7.07 e6 m³.
By using the same paramters as Saxton used on his BDZ page, we get a conservative estimation of something around 2 e16 J.

This "low end" would probably allow each torpedo to be about three digits kilotons or one digit megaton a piece.

Now, those weapons are certainly not good at making slag, so in order to get a proper figure, you need to consider a firepower greater by two or three orders of magnitude.

Finally, if the island is ten times larger, multiply the figure by another ten.

As Grin Reaper put it two years ago, a volleys of torpedoes of that caliber could do this:

The Rogues beat up a Victory-class Star Destroyer in The Bacta War, collapsing the shields on one flank with an almost full-squadron torpedo volley, but the ship simply rolls to present its intact shields. The arrival of an automated Alderaanian war cruiser helping them by attacking the unshielded side is what allows them to take it out.

In Wraith Squadron, the tititular fighter group destroys a Nebulon-B with concentrated torpedo volleys when they take it by suprise with their initial volley. They also cripple an ISD by taking it off guard and unloading a concentrated torpedo volley and turbolaser fire into its reactor while the ship's shields are down, followed by a couple of fighters shooting up its power cells from the inside of the ship.

In Iron Fist a large group of fighters beats the tar out of the SSD Razor's Kiss, but that's only after the shields get taken out and the bridge is destroyed. The ship was just complete (and promptly featured in a case of Grand Theft Starship) and only had a small crew aboard. The fighters never really come close to destroying the ship; they only damage it enough that Zsinj can't escape with it.

In Solo Command Wraith Squadron thrashes of couple of Carrack-class cruisers, but they only cripple the ships, they don't destroy them. The Dreadnaught-class crusier Reprisal gets taken out by a large bomb disguised as a piece of false hull and a concentrated torpedo volley which finishes it off. There's numerous cases of fighters harassing capital ships, but not of doing signifigant damage by themselves.

In Solo Command it's stated that one of the uses of starfighters is to prevent enemy ships from devoting all of their shield capacity to the arcs facing the enemy and leaving their unengaged sides unshielded.

Even with the high end literal interpretation of the quotation from "Rogue Squadron", we see that shields can easily go down with a fraction of the firepower starships are supposed to exchange, according to ICS stats.
Even a single shot from one of those quad turbolasers mounted on Acclamators rack at 8.368 e20 J.

And this doesn't include the large Golan Station which lost a full shield arc after a similar volley in the same book that mentions the terajoules, "X-Wing: Isard's Revenge". For this, I'd finally quote myself as I should have done before, from here and here:

Curious, do you have the quote?

I'll get them in time.
At the moment, I remember that there's the yield for X-wings' proton torpedoes in the Star Wars Technical Journal, vol.3. Each torpedo carries "a nuclear warhead rated at just under one kiloton".

EDIT: From Wong's website.

Two New Republic Assault Frigates, the Tyrant's Bane and Liberty Star, cruised in toward the Golan station. Though each ship was less than a third as long as the station, they bristled with fifty laser cannons and poured terajoules of coherent light into the Golan.

Moonshadow was coming up and turning to port, its port-side batteries firing Direption's aft shields. Red and blue laser and ion cannon fire pumped terajoules of energy into the shields, but somehow they stayed up.

TLs aren't that much more powerful. It's quite miles away from the megaton-level point defense batteries on the Venator (ICS).

Sset to explosive? No, from what I see, they seem to explode on their own as a matter of course, or at least clearly the more powerful ones.

The flak is a bolt explosion. The bolts detonating inside the asteroids Jango was shooting is also that. Nicely, his weapons were firing bolts flaking all over the place anyway.
Bolts also seem to have a "drilling" ability from time to time.

EDIT2: You may want to loo kat this thread (note who's posting btw) and this post for examples of how things can be done wrong.

That would actually fit well into firepower calcs, especially with how the bombers are potrayed in the series and that one fairly large bomb that the Republic dropped over the droid army in The Zila Beast.

Anyway I doubt they'd use puny torpedoes to blow up the reactor of the DS. Considering that they'd never know if the torpedo would reach the core with 100% certainty, the bigger yield the better if the torpedo would hit a bit of structure or a wall like half a kilometer away from the core or something.

Inside?

That could be really useful. Wong's calculator has always been incredibly limited because it only allows for bombs inside the asteroids to be useful for calculations, but if they explode within, then a turbolaser could be more accurately calculated.

There were two BIG threads I participated in, about firepower and the ICS, one was even called Aethersprite-/ firepower something, there were two parts, and in one of them I clearly went at length to observe the behaviour of the explosions, with support of many animations and pictures (which I had formerly posted at SFJN) and there pretty much was no doubt that the asteroids were damaged from within, for all sorts of reasons, notably mere understanding of where the ejecta and rock fragments would be coming from if the bolts detonated at the surface.

In the end, inside or outside was a mere detail that would make the firepower value vary, perhaps not even by one full order of magnitude. What was clear however was that there was no way such bolts, rated in the megajoule range (only very rough calcs would provide low gigajoules) could ever threaten the shields of the Jedi fighter which would be rated in the terawatts (each cannon of the fighter was rated at precisely one kiloton max in the AOTC:ICS, the two heavy cannons of Slave-I were rated at 8e12 J each).

Really? My God, why is that on his site? Teajoules of energy? A single megaton has petajoules of energy that it gives off. Even assuming say, ten tearjoules per shot, that's like 2 kilotons. No wonder bombers have proven to be so dangerous in the Clone Wars series.

As pointed out by Wong, the ISDs had lost their heavy turrets apparently (I'll come to that later). However, that's not the case of the ships referenced in the first quote, New republic Assault Frigates, and among their energy weapon variety were 15 turbolasers. They had fighters part of the operation. Some proton torpedoes were shot at the station, but didn't obliterate it, obviously they were in the same ballpark as those terajoule shots. The station had formerly been hit by two waves of 8 proton torpedoes fired by the fighters. The first wave had lowered the shields, the second blew a large hole "three decks deep". The TLs of the frigates were firing at the unshielded section. The Station was more than three times longer than a frigate. The station was incapable of taking down the shields of the two frigates.

Now, returning to the first case, I don't see where Wong assumed the Moonshadow's heavy TLs were taken down. The Moonshadow, an ISD-II, was firing her portside turrets, ion canons and turbolasers, into the aft shields of the Direption, another ISD-II. Direption's aft arc was tanking the fire because her left side was left unprotected. Another warship, the Swift Liberty, took care of that section. Moonshadow did take some damage earlier on, but first, we don't which side took damage, and secondly, the only weapons that went down were ion cannons. So TLs were still up, including HTLs. If anything, considering the weapons which Moonshadow was using to shoot at the Direption, she was more than likely using the undamaged broadside.

Erratum: the quotes are not from KJA's book, but Stackpole's.

In that case, it's most obvious that the torpedoes would be, at the highest of all ends, in the very low petajoule range, and that's it.



So, now that's done, let's return to our Grand Isle attack run.

What more can we say?
Well, as usual, I find the decision to cut quotes irritating, if not done on purpose. See page 224's larger quote:

From the briefing Corran knew the base on Grand Isle would be no match for two squadrons of Y-wings. In addition to two laser cannons, the Y-wings sported twin ion cannons and two proton torpedo launchers. Each ship carried eight torpedoes, which meant either of the squadrons packed enough firepower to turn the lush, verdant landscape of Grand Isle into a black, smoking mass of liquid rock.

It's not the whole island that would be no match, but the base. So while you're possibly led to believe that the squadrons could really slag the entire island, the point is that the squadrons could easily deal with the base. That would obviously mean once the defense shield is out of the equation, in a way or another.
If I got the description right, said base sits outside of the volcano, between the south ridge and the beach.

Then, the action:

The ride down through the clear atmosphere got a little bumpy, but having a little resistance to fight with the controls felt good after six hours of doing nothing during the hyperspace run. Corran leveled the X-wing out at ten kilometers above the surface of the planet. "Control, Three Flight on station. Can you send me tacvisual from below?"

"Here you go, Nine. From Rogue Leader- returning the favor."

Corran's cheeks burned as he recalled his sensor data being used by the rest of the squadron on Folor. "Relay my thanks."

The visual feed from Wedge's X-wing showed four Y-wings swooping in at the northern face of the volcano's crater. From about a kilometer out, each of the slow craft launched a pair of proton torpedoes, then peeled off. The blue balls streaked out toward the mountainside. They exploded against it at a point where the abundant rains had already eroded and weakened the rock.

The rippling series of explosions cast smoke, rock, and burning plants into the air. The visual feed went vector, with green grids representing the land hidden by the smoke. Where there had been a gentle, curved dip in the crater's rim there now existed a sharp, jagged rift that looked as if some titanic vibro-ax had been used to chop the rock away. As Corran watched, the gap grew larger and he suddenly realized it was because Wedge was going in.

"Tighten it up, Deuce." Wedge's X-wing plunged through the smoke. "Mynock, make sure Control is getting a topo-scan of this trench."

The smoke cleared almost instantly, showing him a bristle of shattered volcanic rock a dozen meters off each wing. Wide enough for the bombers, but not much room for error. He nudged his throttle forward, distancing himself from the Y-wings following in his ion wash, and emerged from the split rock faster than any prudent pilot would have flown.

The laser shots from a quartet of TIE starfighters illuminated the air behind him as he came into the crater beneath the shield's protective dome. He immediately inverted and dove toward the base of the crater. Wind whistled from the S-foils. He rolled 180 degrees, filling his cockpit canopy with sky and pulled back on his stick to level the X-wing out.

No superfireballs?
A crack in the eroded mountain side about one X-wing wingspan (11.18 m) and 24 more meters, or nearly 36 meters?
Notice that the Y-wings are slow.

Then, let's point out a clear sign of exaggeration on the author's part:

The TIE pilot tried to follow him and remain at his back, but the hexagonal wings killed the sideslip. The drag slowed the TIE considerably, and it started to dip toward the jungle carpeting the crater floor. The pilot did the only thing he could to avoid a stall and crash. Diving his ship, he picked up speed and shot ahead of Wedge's X-wing, but not so far in front to allow Wedge to sideslip left and come in behind.

Not that I wanted to do that anyway. Wedge punched the left rudder pedal down and slewed the fighter's stern around to the right. Goosing the throttle straightened the ship out, then Wedge's crosshairs spitted the TIE and burned green. He hit the trigger and the quad lasers converged to blow bits of TIE fighter all over the Grand Isle landscape.

So blasting a TIE is now enough to cover the entire isle? ...

"Control to Rogue Leader, Champion and Guardian squadrons beginning their runs."

"I can see them, Control."

Through the gap lumbered the Y-wings. Never an elegant craft, they appeared to have the atmospheric flight characteristics of something between a TIE starfighter and a big rock. All of the Y-wings dove to pick up speed, but they leveled out with little apparent trouble and started in on their strafing and torpedo runs.

They may be slow and awkward, but Salm's pilots do know how to do their jobs!

"Control to Rogue Leader, we have trouble."

"Go ahead, Control."

"Two ships. Carrack-class cruiser and a Lancer-class frigate are in our exit vector. Eridain is beginning a withdrawal."

This doesn't even begin to sound like the Y-wings are flying through kilometers wide fireballs caused by megaton-level explosions, does it?

Stuff on the Lancer frigate;

Lancer-class frigates had been the Imperial Navy's solution to the problem of snubfighters and the threat they posed to capital ships. All of 250 meters long, the boxy ships were studded with twenty gunnery towers, each one sporting a Seinar Fleet System Quad laser array. With its speed, which was exceptional for a big ship, and those weapons, the Lancer-class ships were rancors amid a nerf herd. While the Eridain's turbolasers could have driven it off, the Carrack-class cruiser outgunned the blockade runner, leaving the Lancer free to pounce on the fighters.

The X-wings were fast enough to elude the Lancer, but there was no way the Y-wings could outrun it or fight it. The Lancer's guns made it the equivalent of eighty TIEs.

80 TIEs. That's quite an amount of "DCA" there!

They're true escort ships, not carrying a single heavy gun. They're like a fortress with enough guns to squash mosquitoes.
The Lancer is a problem for the squadrons. They're trying to find a solution that would allow them to use their torpedoes without coming too close to the ship's point defense batteries.

"Commander, I know how we can get the Lancer. Worst case, we lose one ship."

"What is he babbling about?"

"Easy, General. Go ahead, Nine."

"Ships have to close to two and a half klicks to get a firing solution for a proton torpedo. The Y-wing getting that close to the Lancer will be vaped. An X-wing can get in and send targeting data to the Y-wings, increasing the range for their solution. Same thing Captain Celchu did in the Forbidden at Chorax. The proton torps will home for thirty seconds, which means they can hit a target at just over fourteen and a half klicks. That will keep them safe from the Lancer."

Wedge frowned as he worked through Corran's plan. A weaving X-wing might be able to get in close to the Lancer.

General Salm saw the flaw in the plan at the same time Wedge did. "A weaving X-wing won't be able to get a targeting lock on the Lancer, Antilles. This is nonsense."

Corran's voice came back strong. "The X-wing doesn't need to get a targeting lock, he just needs to get in close. The Y-wings will be targeting the X-wing's homing beacon. Time it right, put the Lancer between the missiles and the X-wing, and you can scratch one Lancer."

"Okay, you do your part and I'll make sure we don't die." Corran looked at his scanner. Sensors put him eighteen klicks out from the Lancer. "Whistler, check my math. At full power I'll do six klicks in the time it takes the missiles to catch me. That means they have to shoot when I hit the six klick mark. They have to be inside fifteen klicks from the Lancer. Looks like we're all lined up and ready to go."

The droid chirped triumphantly and a countdown clock started in the upper corner of the sensor display. "Nine to Wardens, forty, four-oh, seconds to launch."

"Whistler, cut in the randomizer when I hit two and a half klicks from the target." The Lancer's weaponry, because it was taken from TIE bombers, suffered the same range limitations as the fighters. "Also map how the towers are working and send that data back to Control and Rogue Leader. If the Lancer has any weak points, any guns that aren't shooting well, they need to know."

The timer counted down to ten seconds. Corran rubbed his medallion one more time, then settled his right hand on the stick and smiled. "Here goes Rogue Nine, following the unit's tradition of accepting suicide missions with a smile. Wardens, on my mark. Five. Four. Three. Two. One. Mark. Launch torpedoes!"

The comm came alive with fire reports. Corran couldn't make sense of the babble, but as the clash of voices died, he did hear "Warden Three, torpedoes away."

He glanced at the timer, which had started scrolling off seconds until impact. Two seconds late. Probably not a problem. "Whistler, you want to kill the volume on the missile lock warning siren? I am aware they're incoming."

The background noise in the cockpit died. He watched the seconds slowly count down. It seemed to take forever for him to pass from the launch point to halfway in on the Lancer. As his ship streaked in he could see strings of green laser bolts begin to stretch out toward him. They began to curve and curl as the gunners tried to track his ship. The closing speed made all of their initial shots go long.

Twelve and one-quarter seconds from impact, Whistler brought the randomizing program into play and Corran felt the stick begin to twitch. A tiny spark of fear ran through him as he imagined he had lost control of the ship. In its wake he found a calm that felt all too familiar from the last night on Talasea. Well, I didn't die then. Maybe, just maybe . . .

Easing the stick back and to the left he tossed the X-wing into the weave. Wave after seemingly solid wave of green laser energy lashed out from the Lancer, yet his snubfighter sliced through the troughs and curled around the crests, flirting with their deadly caresses. Light flashed against his shields, partially blinding him, but those glancing hits neither slowed nor deflected him.

There was no missing his target. The Lancer-class frigate-Whistler identified it as the Ravager- swelled into a hard-edged, spiky rectangle with an up-bent prow and a bulbous engine assembly. Green backlight from the quads splashed color over the ship's Imperial-white exterior. Corran nudged the X-wing in line, more or less, with the ship's middle deck, then the X-wing whirled out of his control.

In compliance with the instructions he had given Whistler before, the droid rolled the fighter hard to starboard. The stick bashed Corran's right hand against the side of the cockpit, but before the pain could begin to register, the stick tore itself free of his grasp and smacked him solidly in the chest. With the stick pinning him back in his command chair, Corran could only look up and watch the Ravager's hull blur as it flashed past.

The torpedoes had been within half a second of catching the X-wing when it snapped up and around the Ravager. While fully capable of making the same maneuver the fighter had, because of their greater speed, the torpedoes needed more space in which to make it. Even as they started to correct their courses to follow Corran, they slammed into the Lancer and detonated.

The first half-dozen explosions produced more energy than the shields could absorb. The shields went down, leaving the frigate open to the rest of the torpedo swarm. Blast shields buckled and transparisteel viewports evaporated as the torpedoes detonated. Titanium hull plates went molten, flowing into globules of metal that would harden as perfect spheres in the frozen darkness of space. Decks ruptured and the growing fireball at the center of the ship consumed atmosphere, equipment, and personnel with a rapacious appetite.

6 torpedoes hitting all at once take down the shields of a 250 meters long ship.
The other torpedoes crippled the Ravager, and melted the... titanium plating?

[User1446]

Isn't the ICS part of the EU?

[Lucky]

Isn't the ICS part of the EU?

Yes, the Star Wars Incredible Cross sections books are at highest C-canon, and around here they are treated as S or n-canon, but some sites treat them as if they out rank G and T canon.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Isn't the ICS part of the EU?

Yes, the Star Wars Incredible Cross sections books are at highest C-canon, and around here they are treated as S or n-canon, but some sites treat them as if they out rank G and T canon.

You seem to think there are levels within C canon can you show me where you get this from and provide a link please as i have never seen anything that shows a level structure within it.

While the STATS in the ICS can be interpreted as C canon it clearly states in the G canon description regarding such material that they are NOT G canon.

T canon is clearly stated to be higher than C.

If we examine the S canon description and the fact that the stats in question are very much unsupported as well as contradicted in G, T and even C canon and in fact are the definition of the S canon criteria that clearly states "may not fit just right" they could and do come under S canon if we adhere to the canon rules.

[KirkSkyWalker]

The SDN response, would be that "you can't prove it contradicts." Just like the absurd Sun-Crusher, which was 13.5 meters long, more powrful than the Death Star, and could withstand a supernova, they'll say that it's completely consistent since the G-canon never said it didn't exist.
This is the problem with the notion that the EU is simply details of the actual G-canon universe-, rather than a separate universe: i.e. it presumes that everything applies unless it's directly contradicted.

This would be something that Palpatine would say, just like when Abe Lincoln took office and said that "the only vital rights in the Constitution, are those that are expressly written in it--" despite that the Consttution directly says that the existence of enumerated rigts, cannot be construed to deny others retained by the people," and that "all powers not delegated to the United Stats by the Constitution are reserve to the states and the people." In other words, it's a catch-all which means whatever they want, facts be damned.

And here, Lucas expressly states that they're separate universes, but the EU-nuchs say "it's the same universe unless it directly contradicts" ala Boba Fett.
Others even say that Lucas is inferior to LFL as far as canon goes, and so they can claim everything in the EU to be G-canon because Le-Chee said so (they claim, "if you undertand it properly).

[Praeothmin]

And here, Lucas expressly states that they're separate universes, but the EU-nuchs say "it's the same universe unless it directly contradicts" ala Boba Fett.
Others even say that Lucas is inferior to LFL as far as canon goes, and so they can claim everything in the EU to be G-canon because Le-Chee said so (they claim, "if you undertand it properly).

Actually, no one said it was G-Canon, just that it's part of SW and valid if it doesn't contradict the G-Canon...

[Lucky]

Isn't the ICS part of the EU?

Yes, the Star Wars Incredible Cross sections books are at highest C-canon, and around here they are treated as S or N-canon, and laughed at, but some sites treat them as if they out rank G and T canon.

You seem to think there are levels within C canon can you show me where you get this from and provide a link please as i have never seen anything that shows a level structure within it.

What makes you think I think there are different levels of C-canon?

Given the Star Wars ICS directly contradicts the movies I conside the books to be N-canon with lots of nice pictures. I consider anything Star Wars written by Curtis Saxton to be N-canon until proven otherwise because of his track record.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

What makes you think I think there are different levels of C-canon?

Well you did post this:

Yes, the Star Wars Incredible Cross sections books are at highest C-canon, and around here they are treated as S or N-canon, and laughed at, but some sites treat them as if they out rank G and T canon.

I fighred that if summat can be the "highest c canon" then that implies levels as then we can have "lowest or lower c canon" ect ect.

[Lucky]

What makes you think I think there are different levels of C-canon?

Well you did post this:

Yes, the Star Wars Incredible Cross sections books are at highest C-canon, and around here they are treated as S or N-canon, and laughed at, but some sites treat them as if they out rank G and T canon.

I fighred that if summat can be the "highest c canon" then that implies levels as then we can have "lowest or lower c canon" ect ect.

The quote makes more sense if you include the "are at" with the "highest C canon".

<P>I do consider the novelizations to be G minus canon, or T canon.

[Praeothmin]

<P>I do consider the novelizations to be G minus canon, or T canon.

While LFL, Lucas Film Licensing, considers the movie novelizations to be G-canon:

G-canon is absolute canon; the movies (their most recent release), the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, the radio plays, and any statements by George Lucas himself. G-canon overrides the lower levels of canon when there is a contradiction. Within G-canon, many fans follow an unofficial progression of canonicity where the movies are the highest canon, followed by the scripts, the novelizations, and then the radio plays.

Guess who's canon policy we will most closely follow? ;)

[Lucky]

<P>I do consider the novelizations to be G minus canon, or T canon.

While LFL, Lucas Film Licensing, considers the movie novelizations to be G-canon:

G-canon is absolute canon; the movies (their most recent release), the scripts, the novelizations of the movies, the radio plays, and any statements by George Lucas himself. G-canon overrides the lower levels of canon when there is a contradiction. Within G-canon, many fans follow an unofficial progression of canonicity where the movies are the highest canon, followed by the scripts, the novelizations, and then the radio plays.

Guess who's canon policy we will most closely follow? ;)

You plan on using my canon policy because the novelizations contradict the movies in their latest forms and anything not in the movies/made by George Lucus is C canon last I check, or disregard the novelizations entirely?