All about Serafina (Split)

[Tyralak]

She's already over at SDN whining and claiming JMS was deleting her posts.

[Mike DiCenso]

No big suprise, really. Especially since as far as I can tell, there's no truth to it.
-Mike

[Tyralak]

No big suprise, really. Especially since as far as I can tell, there's no truth to it.
-Mike

I wonder if she was confused about splitting topics and assumed her posts were being deleted.

[The Dude]

Maybe I've missed the thread but the last post in the "drill 9000" thread was almost a week ago.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Frankly, the debate has almost been split into three different threads and then spread to different chambers, not counting the warning thread JMS started in the technical discussion chamber. :)

[Jedi Master Spock]

She's already over at SDN whining and claiming JMS was deleting her posts.

Which is untrue. I have actually taken the unusual step of deleting two contentless posts that consisted only of images within the last two weeks - it has been a rough month - but neither belonged to Serafina. One belonged to W.I.L.G.A. and was the subject of a public warning, another to Mr. Oragahn and was the subject of a private warning.

No big suprise, really. Especially since as far as I can tell, there's no truth to it.
-Mike

I wonder if she was confused about splitting topics and assumed her posts were being deleted.

I suppose this is a possibility. There have been a number of different topics, almost all of which are now contained in this singular large thread.

Given the number and length of posts per day which Serafina averaged here prior to her temporary ban, as quite clearly can be verified by an unregistered guest using the search function, I wonder who will believe such assertions.

[The Dude]

She was probably just confused because of the merging/splitting/etc, seeing as her complaint on SDN was almost a week ago. I don't think it's a big deal guys, lets not make a mountain out of a mole hill.

[Jedi Master Spock]

She was probably just confused because of the merging/splitting/etc, seeing as her complaint on SDN was almost a week ago. I don't think it's a big deal guys, lets not make a mountain out of a mole hill.

Almost a week ago? Yes, that would almost certainly be because of the amazing shuffle of threads that was performed around that point in time.

[The Dude]

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic. ... &start=200

That should be it. I posted it in another thread but there seems to be a lot of cross talk...

[Serafina]

Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to stupidity.

Some posts were split of. Since i am actustomed to such a split being announced, i tough they had been deleted and thus saved a bunch of stuff that was still in the cache of my web-browser.

So yes, i falsely thought that they had been deleted.

[Serafina]

You need to go and look up what bigoted really means because i can gaurentee it does not mean "disagreeing with serafina who is trying to force a perspective on me that ignores virtually all sceinces and even some of the single science she deems allowable".

A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.
Prejudice is defined as:
injury or damage resulting from some judgment or action of another in disregard of one's rights; especially : detriment to one's legal rights or claims or
preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

There, not that complicated.
Now, let's try an analysis whether that fits to you, WILGA or Oraghan, shall we?

Kor:
You cling to your prejudicial conception that transwomen are not women. You have presented NO evidence that this is not the case, especially after transition. Instead, you focus on evidence that is not relevant to social science - and you do not quote any social science papers despite your evidently good ability to hunt for scientific papers.
Furthermore, you want to deny them equal rights to others of their gender, hence you are detrimental to their legal rights.
You also display a certain degree of hostility, accusing all transwomen of lying (when i referred to psychological studies) and deception without rational basis.

WILGA:
He strongly objects that transwomen are treated as women. Like Kor, he therefore is detrimental to their legal rights.
He also made a lot of judgment before he had sufficient knowledge - partially about specific things such as mammary glands, SRS or legal status, partially about transwomen.

Oraghan:
He is pretty damn hostile towards transwomen. He has claimed that they only want seductive feminine power and similar things such as claiming that it was "borderline madness".
He also has passed judgment without knowledge - e.g. he claimed that transwomen do not dress modestly. Actual research (instead of googling for images) shows that he is wrong. While some transwomen tend to avoid overly masculine clothing, they generally do not dress differently from ciswomen.
He also made prejudiced, uninformed rants against feminism and displayed hostility towards it, claiming that it was shoved down his (and others throat)


There. That is why i see these three as bigots - all of them meet at least two criteria. I might not be able to say that they are, but i want to declare that this is what i think of them.
Censor me for my opinion on that if you want to.

[Serafina]

And another one from Oraghan:

There's enough transsexuals on this planet to build a nation of transsexuals. If ultimately you can't make the rest of the planet adopt your opinion, building your own nation with people who think like you and are like you would possibly be one of the best ways to protect yourselves and live under your own laws.

"There are enough homosexuals on this planet to build several nations of homosexuals. If they ultimately can't make the rest of the planet adopt their opinion, building their own nation with people who think like them and are like them would possibly be one of the best ways to protect themselves and life under their own laws".

In other words: "just go away, i don't like you". Lovely. I think everyone can see why this "argument" fails.

[Praeothmin]

I also agree. Don't give Serafina more than she already has with this temporary ban to go back to SDN and claim martyrdom.
-Mike

That was not my meaning...
Mike, do you see everyone coming here from SDN as looking for some sort of "munitions" against us?
Honestly, we know what SDN thinks of people from SFJ, SDN members on DITL.org already share that view and have succeeded in "tainting the well" of sorts, but franckly, who gives a fu**?
Let them live in their little SDN colored world...

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Kor:
You cling to your prejudicial conception that transwomen are not women. You have presented NO evidence that this is not the case, especially after transition.

Biological, physical, genetics even brian scans show a slightly less male brain and thus by default slightly more female brain NOT a fully female brain.

My conception is not predjudicial it is mearly accurate.

Instead, you focus on evidence that is not relevant to social science

I am not limiting myself to social siences, it is YOU who claims i have to.....YOU have no right to do so.

(2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge

And who is it that is denying the introduction of facts and knowledge into this discussion?...YOU.

Furthermore, you want to deny them equal rights to others of their gender, hence you are detrimental to their legal rights.

Yet another disgusting lie, i support equal human rights for all individuals and have said so constantly through this discssion.

YOU do not have a human right to force me to believe innacuracies or lies.

You also display a certain degree of hostility, accusing all transwomen of lying (when i referred to psychological studies) and deception without rational basis.

I never said all (yet another exhageration and lie) and the "femenine essence narrative" (obviously in MTF transexuals like YOU claim you are) is well known and docomented.

The main support for the feminine essence narrative is that many male-to-female transsexuals say they feel it to be true; many autobiographical and clinical accounts by or about transsexual individuals contain variations of the statement of having a female soul or needing to make the external body resemble the inner or true self.

Critics of this narrative consider it to be inconsistent with their research findings.

There have also been findings that the groups differ in how well they respond to sex reassignment and how likely they are to regret having transitioned.

These sexologists have therefore posited that more than one motivator can lead a biological male to desire to live life as female, but that there is no evidence for a core essence of femininity.


Since the medical community has guidelines for what types of transsexuals qualify for sex reassignment surgery, transsexuals sometimes adopt and tell the story that they believe will help them qualify – the "transsexual narrative" representing themselves as "essentially female" – which may explain at least part of the prevalence of the feminine essence narrative.

Considering how much you insist in "REINTERPRETING" what others have said to suit you, "LYING" about what they actually said when you feel the need, "EXHAGERATING" what they have said and "DENYING" numerous scientific facts because they do not show what you want them to i would say the above "narrative" is a favorite of yours.


I cannot go into details about my opinion of you and your personality regarding the discussion or your likely future (because of board rules ) but congratulations you have taken me from a position of support regarding how you should be refered to simply because of the facts posted, ALL THE SCIENCE (and the fact that you seem at least emotionally unstable and perhaps mentally unstable as well) you will now be refered to with the prefix "trans" (one seemingly communally accepted as per transgender) until a better frefix is given to describe your condition.

PS: You welcome to come over to ASVS and continue this but be warned the rules over there are less strict to what you dish out you will get back and i doubt you are mentally or emotionally capable to handle that.

http://www.asvs.us/index.php/index

[Serafina]

Biological, physical, genetics even brian scans show a slightly less male brain and thus by default slightly more female brain NOT a fully female brain.

My conception is not predjudicial it is mearly accurate.

I am not limiting myself to social siences, it is YOU who claims i have to.....YOU have no right to do so.

We are discussing a social science term - gender and the definition of what a woman is in society are both clearly issues for social science.
As i said - it's like discussing a chemistry problem and you insist on physics.

Now go on and cite a social science paper, or retract your claim. As the old saying goes:
Put up or shut up.

And who is it that is denying the introduction of facts and knowledge into this discussion?...YOU.

Hardly. You apparently "forgot" that we were discussing biological evidence earlier on. If i may say so, that's simply a lie.
I am not denying anything - but when you make a social science claim, you have to back it up with social science.

Yet another disgusting lie, i support equal human rights for all individuals and have said so constantly through this discssion.

YOU do not have a human right to force me to believe innacuracies or lies.

I'm not talking about just human rights here, although i base my claims on them.
So tell me:
For what reason should a transwoman NOT have the EXACT same rights as a ciswoman?
(After transition, legal procedures etc. of course)

I never said all (yet another exhageration and lie) and the "femenine essence narrative" (obviously in MTF transexuals like YOU claim you are) is well known and docomented.

Enough to dismiss decades of experience and tens of thousands of cases?
You better back that up.

The main support for the feminine essence narrative is that many male-to-female transsexuals say they feel it to be true; many autobiographical and clinical accounts by or about transsexual individuals contain variations of the statement of having a female soul or needing to make the external body resemble the inner or true self.

Critics of this narrative consider it to be inconsistent with their research findings.

There have also been findings that the groups differ in how well they respond to sex reassignment and how likely they are to regret having transitioned.

These sexologists have therefore posited that more than one motivator can lead a biological male to desire to live life as female, but that there is no evidence for a core essence of femininity.


Since the medical community has guidelines for what types of transsexuals qualify for sex reassignment surgery, transsexuals sometimes adopt and tell the story that they believe will help them qualify – the "transsexual narrative" representing themselves as "essentially female" – which may explain at least part of the prevalence of the feminine essence narrative.

Duh. That neither supports your position nor is it new.
I said myself that transsexual people are screened for whether they are actually transsexual or not - i named reasons why one might think to be.

Besides, you are making an incredibly bold statement here:
That every transsexual person is lying and that every psychiatrist is fooled by that lie.
I demand that you back that up - just because some people might lie, not all of them do.

Another broad generalization about transsexual people by the way - apparently you think that they are all liars.

I cannot go into details about my opinion of you and your personality regarding the discussion or your likely future (because of board rules ) but congratulations you have taken me from a position of support regarding how you should be refered to simply because of the facts posted, ALL THE SCIENCE (and the fact that you seem at least emotionally unstable and perhaps mentally unstable as well) you will now be refered to with the prefix "trans" (one seemingly communally accepted as per transgender) until a better frefix is given to describe your condition.

You can't? Funny, given that you did it all the time.

Your appeal to "ALL THE SCIENCE" reeks of ignorance of actual science and a fallacy.
When you are discussing a specific science, you are supposed to USE that specific science. Other sciences can of course complement that, but that complementation will be listed, addressed and done in the papers of the actual science.
YOU are the one who is ignoring social science while discussing it, since you are not posting any evidence.

You are making a claim about social science.
Cite a social science paper to back it up.