The Federation is weak

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Mike DiCenso
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Re: Some weaknesses of the Federation and Starfleet

Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:44 pm

Youngla0450 wrote:Well, here are some of my arguments:
What exactly is your arguement? That the Federation is weak? That it is communist? So far you've been batting zero on the latter.

Their transporter biofilters do nothing-The transporters have those biofilters or "decons" that are supposed to be used to identify and neturalize any threatening toxins or contaminations of boarding parties. However, several times, the biofilter computer was unable to detect the contamination or failed to prevent it, as seen in "The Naked Time".
Other than "The Naked Time", what other episodes in all of Trek can you cite beyond one very obvious statistical outlier. How do the outliers compare to the potentially thousands, or even tens of thousands of transports E-D personel have made on and off screen. For example, transport by aircraft is now the safest way to travel statisically speaking, but every year out of millions of flights, there are one or two crashes. We would have to expect something similar for transporters, especially when going to unexplored territory.
Councillor Troi is a political officer-The only reason Councillor Deanna Troi is on the Enterprise is because she is a political officer. Troi's publicily-recognized duty is to "help" crew-members with mental problems or help them control their emotions. In reality, she is in charge of detecting the thoughts of all crew and their families, and to report to Starfleet Command of any possible political or military insurgency.
Cite a source that the latter speculation is true. There is no point ever in TNG or DS9 where Troi or Ezeri Dax do anything like that, or do any kind of political indoctrination.
There is no use for families on Starfleet vessels-There is no use for families to be aboard Starfleet vessels. They usually head into dangerous situations and missions, and usually these threaten the lives of the crew and the civilians onboard. In one episode, the Aldeans even kidnapped at least seven Enterprise children, including Wesley. Thus, if the ship is disabled in battle or even severely damaged, several civilians and children could die.
And some Starfleet personel would agree with you. But as pointed out, it was not a forced situation for the families to go along. By the time of the Dominion war, there were no families on board any Starfleet vessel that we know of. It was a policy made during more peaceful times for starships that would likely be sent out on long-duration missions of exploration and patrol. When the political climate changed and new threats emerged, the policy was changed accordingly.
Holodecks are worthless-There is no use for holodecks onboard Starfleet vessels. The holodecks waste precious space on board Federation vessels, reducing battle efficency and firepower for the sake of entertainment for the crew AND civilians! Usually the holodeck controls malfunction, leading to users of the holodeck being trapped or severely or slightly injured or even killed.

Why is there no use for holodecks on a starship? They have fantastic use for training personel or running simulations as we have seen numerous times throughout the TNG-era series. Also, holodecks don't appear to take up that much room or power anyway, relatively speaking. Please, elaborate more and as with the transporter biofilter claim, please cite your evidence and do a proper statistical analysis.
-Mike

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Trinoya
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Re: The Federation is weak

Post by Trinoya » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:11 pm

Personally I think your giving him too much credit

Alas, I must concede yet another point I guess.

Youngla0450
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Slow Speed of Federation Vessels

Post by Youngla0450 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:54 pm

The warp-driven Federation vessels are too slow. It would take seventy years for one of the most powerful vessels in Starfleet, the Voyager, to cross only one quadrant of the Milky Way, which is smaller then the Star Wars galaxy! It would take Han Solo's good old Milllenium Falcon only one-three hours to cross the area of space crossed by the Voyager in seven years. Anyways, while it would take Federation vessels 53 weeks to cross all of the Federation space, it would only take a Star Wars vessel ten minutes-one hour.

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Re: The Federation is weak

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:08 am

As we have shown using the highest SW canon, the SW galaxy is not bigger than the Milky Way galaxy. In fact, as the map WILGA showed, along with thr information from the RoTJ novelization information, that the Galaxy is perhaps around 5,000 ly diameter. Voyager is an oddity, but the writers were smart enough to have navigational issues, not merely speed as an obstacle to the ship's return to the Alpha quadrant. For example, did you know that in "Year of Hell", "Hope and Fear", and "Q2", that years were shaved off the journey home that way?

For more on this matter, go read this thread here where we discuss the evidence. Suffice to say, there are a large number of episodes that indicate that warp drive is not that much slower than hyperdrive inside well-charted areas. For example, in TOS' "Obsession" and "That Which Survives", the Enterpise crosses thousand light year distances in less than a day's time, while in TNG's "The Chase", the E-D is indicated as being able to traverse a 35,00 to 40,000 ly route in 1-3 weeks time. In DS9's "Valiant", a Defiant class ship is said to be able to "circumnavigate" the 8,000 ly Federation in 3 months at modest warp speeds.
What evidence do you have, that the Millenium Falcon can cross the SW galaxy in 3 hours? And please, be concise with your sources.
-Mike
Last edited by Mike DiCenso on Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Youngla0450
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Re: The Federation is weak

Post by Youngla0450 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:11 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:As we have shown using the highest SW canon, the SW galaxy is not bigger than the Milky Way galaxy. In fact, as the map WILGA showed, along with teh informationf rom the RoTJ novelization information, that the Galaxy is perhaps around 5,000 ly diameter. Voyager is an oddity, but the writers were smart enough to have navigational issues, not merely speed as an obstacle to the ship's return to the Alpha quadrant. For example, did you know that in "Year of Hell", "Hope and Fear", and "Q2", that years were shaved off the journey home that way?

For more on this matter, go read this thread here where we discuss the evidence. Suffice to say, there are a large number of episodes that indicate that warp drive is not that much slower than hyperdrive inside well-charted areas. For example, in TOS' "Obsession" and "That Which Survives", the Enterpise crosses thousand light year distances in less than a day's time, while in TNG's "The Chase", the E-D is indicated as being able to traverss a 35,00 to 40,000 ly route in 1-3 weeks time. In DS9's "Valiant", a Defiant class ship is said to be able to "circumnavigate" the 8,000 ly Federation in 3 months at modest warp speeds.
What eveidence do you have, that the Millenium Falcon can cross the SW galaxy in 3 hours? And please, be concise with your sources.
-Mike
So sad for you. You always are trying to support Star Trek, and your claims about a super-small Imperial galaxy are not true, as Mr. Wong would say.

Mike DiCenso
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Re: The Federation is weak

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:14 am

Too bad for you that you keep dodging the evidence and failing to address other people's points, or provide support for your speculation and assertions.
-Mike

Youngla0450
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Re: The Federation is weak

Post by Youngla0450 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:19 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:Too bad for you that you keep dodging the evidence and failing to address other people's points, or provide support for your speculation and assertions.
-Mike
http://www.fanboy.com/archive-images/st ... galaxy.jpg

The above is a link to a map of the Star Wars galaxy, and it is basically recognized.

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Mr. Oragahn
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Re: The Federation is weak

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:21 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:As we have shown using the highest SW canon, the SW galaxy is not bigger than the Milky Way galaxy. In fact, as the map WILGA showed, along with teh informationf rom the RoTJ novelization information, that the Galaxy is perhaps around 5,000 ly diameter.
I recall the discussion pretty much stretched over two or three pages solely on the claim, from the ROTJ novel, that the galaxy in SW was a modest sized one.
I and Kane I think provided evidence that super large galaxies existed and that the description could be relative to such neighboring galaxies.
The reasoning to claim it's a dwarf galaxy is pretty slim. In light of the EU, this is even settled as it's clearly identified as being MW sized.

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Re: The Federation is weak

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:32 am

Youngla0450 wrote:
Mike DiCenso wrote:Too bad for you that you keep dodging the evidence and failing to address other people's points, or provide support for your speculation and assertions.
-Mike
http://www.fanboy.com/archive-images/st ... galaxy.jpg

The above is a link to a map of the Star Wars galaxy, and it is basically recognized.

That's basically the same map as the one WILGA provided a link to, except made to look fancier. Compare them side-to-side, they show pretty much the same locations arranged in the same topographical manner. It only reinforces the the 5,000 ly diameter since the distance between Endor and Sullust are the same. And we know in the highest canon that the distance between those two systems is "hundreds of light years", not "tens of thousands".
-Mike

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Re: The Federation is weak

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:34 am

Mr. Oragahn wrote:
Mike DiCenso wrote:As we have shown using the highest SW canon, the SW galaxy is not bigger than the Milky Way galaxy. In fact, as the map WILGA showed, along with teh informationf rom the RoTJ novelization information, that the Galaxy is perhaps around 5,000 ly diameter.
I recall the discussion pretty much stretched over two or three pages solely on the claim, from the ROTJ novel, that the galaxy in SW was a modest sized one.
I and Kane I think provided evidence that super large galaxies existed and that the description could be relative to such neighboring galaxies.
The reasoning to claim it's a dwarf galaxy is pretty slim. In light of the EU, this is even settled as it's clearly identified as being MW sized.
Most of that were in relation to various elliptical galaxies and so on. I know that most people here have settled on a 60 or so thousand light year diameter for the SW galaxy, but I'd like Young to show proof of this, not just parrot SDN party line or cling to Mike Wong's coattails.
-Mike
Last edited by Mike DiCenso on Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Youngla0450
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Re: The Federation is weak

Post by Youngla0450 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:37 am

You cannot get the facts through that fixed skull of yours, can you? Let me give you a link to a article about the Star Wars galaxy. It includes information on size, shape, history, and government structure:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_galaxy

Mike DiCenso
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Re: The Federation is weak

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:40 am

You're trolling now. The higher canon overrides the lesser canon, which you keep clinging to. What do you not understand about that?
-Mike

Youngla0450
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Re: The Federation is weak

Post by Youngla0450 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 1:45 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:You're trolling now. The higher canon overrides the lesser canon, which you keep clinging to. What do you not understand about that?
-Mike
My good Mike! You keep on fucking messing with Star Wars! You stick to your fucking assumption that the Empire and the Star Wars Galaxy is weak and small. You are some fuckin Trekkie fan-boy!

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Re: The Federation is weak

Post by Khas » Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:18 am

And you sir, are a troll. Lucas HIMSELF said that the Empire covers a small region of it's home galaxy.

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Re: The Federation is weak

Post by Youngla0450 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:21 am

Khas wrote:And you sir, are a troll. Lucas HIMSELF said that the Empire covers a small region of it's home galaxy.
Oh so now you are saying Lucas said it!

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