Why Connor hates the Tau

[sonofccn]

If they can hold together long enough. There's some evidence to suggest that the further the Tau spread the less hold the "greater good" has, there has already been at least two commanders break the Etheral's hold and go rogue.

I wasn't aware the Etheral's hold was slipping to any extent, thank you. That complicates matters but doesn't rule out a Tau victory.

Their slow as shite FTL really won't help things either. I suspect that were the IoM to fall that the Tau would eventually be swept under by the Nids and Orks.

Don't forget the Necrons. Those robo-zombie things may not have the numbers of Nids or Orks but they are a force to be reckoned with.

[The Dude]

I wasn't aware the Etheral's hold was slipping to any extent, thank you. That complicates matters but doesn't rule out a Tau victory.

Tau victory over what, the Imperium? Even if the IoM were to collapse, the lack of warp storms cutting off travel ala The Age of Strife won't be present, still leaving the humans with faster warp travel (even with out the Astronomican Navigators can travel faster then a regular human through the warp) and greater numbers. I would expect the IoM to break up into smaller Empires then completely fall apart.

It would be centuries, possibly millenia before the Tau could actually take advantage of it. Their slow travel coupled with a tiny population severely limits their options.

Don't forget the Necrons. Those robo-zombie things may not have the numbers of Nids or Orks but they are a force to be reckoned with.

Guess that depends on how many wake up. They are certainly capable of defeating any of the regular races in 40K.

[Mr. Oragahn]

The Imperium even ruined the Interex, before the Heresy.

That is a gross simplification of what happened. A Marine tainted by Chaos stole a Kinebrach weapon out of a museum and blew it up. The Interex, believing Horus's forces tainted by Chaos attacked his retinue.

And instead of trying to know why a given civilization attacked a portion of his forces, they rather defeated them and went beyond that, towards something that may have approached genocide?
In general, when there's been an oopsie in military engagements, or even a severe violation of some sovereignty, you don't decide to make an entire civilization pay for a mistake. It's kinda extreme, no?
All they had to ask was:

- Why the hell are you attacking us?
- You are Chaos, and one of your military goons stole an artifact (sacred?) from our museum and destroyed it whole.
- We're not Chaos. We fight Chaos.
- Ah.

That would presumably be before Horus dipped his nose into madness though. If not, it might explain the decision and carnage.

[The Dude]

And instead of trying to know why a given civilization attacked a portion of his forces, they rather defeated them and went beyond that, towards something that may have approached genocide?
In general, when there's been an oopsie in military engagements, or even a severe violation of some sovereignty, you don't decide to make an entire civilization pay for a mistake. It's kinda extreme, no?
All they had to ask was:

- Why the hell are you attacking us?
- You are Chaos, and one of your military goons stole an artifact (sacred?) from our museum and destroyed it whole.
- We're not Chaos. We fight Chaos.
- Ah.

That would presumably be before Horus dipped his nose into madness though. If not, it might explain the decision and carnage.

Actually IIRC my HH series correctly, we don't know what happened to the Interex after all this.

[sonofccn]

Tau victory over what, the Imperium? Even if the IoM were to collapse, the lack of warp storms cutting off travel ala The Age of Strife won't be present, still leaving the humans with faster warp travel (even with out the Astronomican Navigators can travel faster then a regular human through the warp) and greater numbers. I would expect the IoM to break up into smaller Empires then completely fall apart.

Victory as defined as the dominate power in the galaxy, the place the Imperium currently resides in. Should the Imperium collapse the creation of hundreds if not thousands of tiny empires will likely not be a threat to the growing Tau empire. Humanity may end up like Orks, too wide spread and too tenacious to be wiped out, with a permanent presence in the galaxy but singularly inferior to the other powers. The advantages of faster FTL and individually superior ships, while potent, are useless long term with a fractured humanity, doubly so considering the other species would try to get their piece of the pie.

It would be centuries, possibly millenia before the Tau could actually take advantage of it. Their slow travel coupled with a tiny population severely limits their options.

It is likely to be a slow ebbing and flowing process yes, not a spectacular power shift in the dead of night, but the Tau would likely began taking advantage almost immediately. They should be able to reach the border between Tau space and humanity fairly quickly and in the power vacuum of a declining star empire the Tau could offer stability as well as military protection from the other races in the galaxy.

[The Dude]

Unfortunately for the Tau, unless they develop psykers or start employing them to a greater degree (they have some from other races they employ) their not going to get very far. Either that or they develop a better means of FTL comms then their warp skimming drones. Reliable FTL comms in 40K seems to depend exclusively on the witches (unless you happen to be one of the more capable races it seems; Eldar, Necron).

Could the Tau become the dominate power? Possibly. I consider it likely that they will be eaten by the 'Nids or looted by the Orks first, but honestly I expect things to remain the status quo for a good long while. Several more thousand years at least.

[Mr. Oragahn]

And instead of trying to know why a given civilization attacked a portion of his forces, they rather defeated them and went beyond that, towards something that may have approached genocide?
In general, when there's been an oopsie in military engagements, or even a severe violation of some sovereignty, you don't decide to make an entire civilization pay for a mistake. It's kinda extreme, no?
All they had to ask was:

- Why the hell are you attacking us?
- You are Chaos, and one of your military goons stole an artifact (sacred?) from our museum and destroyed it whole.
- We're not Chaos. We fight Chaos.
- Ah.

That would presumably be before Horus dipped his nose into madness though. If not, it might explain the decision and carnage.

Actually IIRC my HH series correctly, we don't know what happened to the Interex after all this.

I recall someone at SBC recently said that a HH book identified them as gone for good or close.

[The Dude]

Might be the artbook.

[Dabat]

I love 40k, it is hands down my favorite scifi setting, so I figure I will weigh in here.



Up until this point the Tau have had several major advantages.
-They are young, reality has simply not had much time to notice them.
-They only recently developed their technology
-Their low (but not invisible) warp signature made the Chaos Gods overlook them
-The major players have have been too busy to notice them, allowing them to slip in under the Radar.

Unfortunately, things re likely to become very, very bad for the Tau.
-Reality in 40k is inherently malicious, it actively works against both individuals and empires simply because it can.
-Technology is also aware through Dagon(Mechanicum stating he was asleep pretty much flies in the face of what was said pretty much every other time he was mentioned. And, lets face it, that wouldn't be the first time someone in the Imperium was lied to and forced to do a pointless duty for the rest of their lives), and I doubt he wants to loose his favorite play thing which he already effectively controls, namely the IoM through the AdMech.
-Daemons have begun to notice their existence through the Tau's contact with Chaos warbands.
-One word: Tyranids. The Tau do not have the numbers to fight them. Nor the FTL speed to outrun them. All the technology they possess still does not make them superior to the bugs one on one. And no matter how far they advance their technology the thousands or millions they can field will not be able to stop the bug's ever re-growing billions.


That is my take on the matter. I love the Tau to death, I remember being a teenager and working to decode the first message the IoM ever got from the Tau (replicated faithfully in White Dwarf before the Tau had been announced). I think it is neat to be able to play/read about a race in 40K that ISN'T an ancient galaxy spanning empire. But everything I have ever seen about the 40k-verse tells me that the Tau are about to get shithammered, hard. At the very least they are going to loose their Empire to the bugs, I do not see any way around that. Perhaps they will end up another wandering race with no worlds of their own like the Kroot, Eldar, Demiurge, Nisscar and Loxitol.

[Enosh]

One of the things I do like about the Tau is that they aren't massively xenophobic and racist like pretty much every other WH40k power. If you want to see humans and aliens working in harmony, the Tau are pretty much the only place to go.

except the whole part where they actualy are racist and are killing everyone who doesn't join the greater good along with chemicly castrating those that do (in secret)

[Khas]

One of the things I do like about the Tau is that they aren't massively xenophobic and racist like pretty much every other WH40k power. If you want to see humans and aliens working in harmony, the Tau are pretty much the only place to go.

except the whole part where they actualy are racist and are killing everyone who doesn't join the greater good along with chemicly castrating those that do (in secret)

Wait, where was this? I've been to both 40K wikis, and I haven't seen that. I don't have the novels or the games, (Found out about 40K in EG Magazine when Dawn of War came out, most of my knowledge comes from the wikis or from friends who do play the games) but I'm sure that something like that would be on the wikis!

[The Dude]

The wiki's are horrible to rely on, GW's draconian stance on it's IP means that not much gets posted. And what does has massive disclaimers on every page.

I wouldn't be surprised if they do castrate folks. We already know that you join or get invaded/wiped out/forced to join.

[Mr. Oragahn]

They use vaccines for that.

[Dabat]

One of the things I do like about the Tau is that they aren't massively xenophobic and racist like pretty much every other WH40k power. If you want to see humans and aliens working in harmony, the Tau are pretty much the only place to go.

except the whole part where they actualy are racist and are killing everyone who doesn't join the greater good along with chemicly castrating those that do (in secret)

Wait, where was this? I've been to both 40K wikis, and I haven't seen that. I don't have the novels or the games, (Found out about 40K in EG Magazine when Dawn of War came out, most of my knowledge comes from the wikis or from friends who do play the games) but I'm sure that something like that would be on the wikis!

Off the top of my head, their 4th Ed Codex, I believe.

[Khas]

That said, the Tau are not all pink.

In WH40k, who is?

Khorne.