Fed hand weapons against any armour what so ever

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SailorSaturn13
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Post by SailorSaturn13 » Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:07 am

No need to take such examples. It's easier - remember the Borg! When their shields are not stopping phasers, they are killed - many from hits in the chest, where their thick plating is. So yes, phasers penetrate armor good.

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Praeothmin
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Post by Praeothmin » Fri Nov 10, 2006 7:57 pm

No need to take such examples. It's easier - remember the Borg! When their shields are not stopping phasers, they are killed - many from hits in the chest, where their thick plating is. So yes, phasers penetrate armor good.
Well, actually we do IMO, because without knowing what these armors are made off, we cannot know how they compare to each other.
We have many examples of armored opponents being killed by phaser fire (the Klingons, the Breen, the Jem'Hadar), but everytime the Trek side gives this argument, the Wars side usually answers by "That's just a proof of how weak Feddie armor is..."
So by having proof that Phasers vaporize, even if what they vaporized was only like iron, we can estimate a lower firepower figure from that example.

We see that Blasters have no problem penetrating Stormtrooper armor, and lets say Blasters have been rated at 2 megajoules. If we can calculate a lower limits for Phasers at, say, at least 2 Megajoules, then we know for certain that Phasers can, and will penetrate Stormtrooper armor.

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SailorSaturn13
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Post by SailorSaturn13 » Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:20 pm

Praeothmin wrote:
No need to take such examples. It's easier - remember the Borg! When their shields are not stopping phasers, they are killed - many from hits in the chest, where their thick plating is. So yes, phasers penetrate armor good.
Well, actually we do IMO, because without knowing what these armors are made off, we cannot know how they compare to each other.
We have many examples of armored opponents being killed by phaser fire (the Klingons, the Breen, the Jem'Hadar), but everytime the Trek side gives this argument, the Wars side usually answers by "That's just a proof of how weak Feddie armor is..."
So by having proof that Phasers vaporize, even if what they vaporized was only like iron, we can estimate a lower firepower figure from that example.

We see that Blasters have no problem penetrating Stormtrooper armor, and lets say Blasters have been rated at 2 megajoules. If we can calculate a lower limits for Phasers at, say, at least 2 Megajoules, then we know for certain that Phasers can, and will penetrate Stormtrooper armor.

The claim was that "any armor whatsoever" is enough, e.g. phasers only work against living things. This is clearly not the case.

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Post by Mike DiCenso » Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:33 pm

Praeothmin actually has the right idea IMHO. Once you establish that phasers (or any conventional ST handweapon, for that matter) can cut through ST armor, you must follow on to the next logical part of the arguement. By showing the effects of phasers on materials we do know (rock, metals, ect), we can show reasonably that SW armor will also be affected as well.

So, yes, the first part is that phasers will work against ST armor just fine. Then in anticipation we have now shown that they work against other materials natural and otherwise fairly well.
-Mike

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Re: Fed hand weapons against any armour what so ever

Post by Jasonb » Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:28 am

Fed hand weapon phasers but Federation most hand weapon likl CRM 114. Shuttlecrafts could also attack ground vehicles.

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l33telboi
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Re: Fed hand weapons against any armour what so ever

Post by l33telboi » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:05 pm

Darth Tanner wrote:Throughot the video & ST in general phaser hits are very low yield, leaving no damage on packing crates and only burning a small hole in bits of wood.

Compare this to Imp blaster which take out massive chunks of concrete walls.
Can't say I've ever seen an imp blaster making large craters in a concrete wall. Biggest showing was probably when Han managed to blast some holes in Tatooine, but there's quite a few higher showings on the Trek side. Like this. And naturally I also feel obliged to point out that hiding behind trees, rocks and packing crates are valid methods of protecting yourself from blaster fire in Star Wars, so that's not really a helpful argument either.
In terms of ground conflict, how would the Fed actually stop itself being annhilated.
Besides shooting the stormtroopers? I guess they pick up a bow and shoot arrows at them. Or maybe throw some rocks. Or then just run up to them and hit them. All of which have been shown as effective ways to kill stormtroopers and clonetroopers.
Oh and I'll ignore vehicles as the Fed stupidity in not having them is just too silly to make discussion worth while.
The only thing more stupid then not having vehicles is having vehicles that are identical to modern stuff (only worse designed) despite a futuristic setting. You know, like Star Wars where they have tanks, only with legs with glass cockpits.

This might come as a shock to you, but ground combat in Star Wars is more idiotic then the lack of it in Star Trek.
And yet these higher settings are not used unless in dire conditions against weird aliens, indicating they are likely wasteful of ammo or damaging to the emmitter.
No. It indicates that the users are generally smart enough to use the appropriate amount of force under the circumstances. That's why they usually just stun people. It's doesn't drain a lot of energy, and it leaves people alive for questioning or capture later on.
Why exactly would you want to make some one glow orange and vanish?
Its likely incredibly wasteful of energy in comparison to simply killing someone.
You realize that this and the previous statement are somewhat contradictory. First you complain about them not using higher settings, and then you turn around and say it'd be silly to use the higher settings in anything but the most extreme circumstances.
ST accuracy is largely a result of the poor 'dust buster' design of their side arms
ST accuracy with these poorly designed weapons is still superior to a any baseline stormtrooper, battle droid or clonetrooper, who seem to have trouble hitting people from five meters away.

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Re: Fed hand weapons against any armour what so ever

Post by Mike DiCenso » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:57 pm

Why are you two bothering with a thread that pretty much ended more than 3 years ago?
Granted there's no hard and fast rule against thread necromacy here, but still...
-Mike

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Re: Fed hand weapons against any armour what so ever

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:23 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:Why are you two bothering with a thread that pretty much ended more than 3 years ago?
Granted there's no hard and fast rule against thread necromacy here, but still...
-Mike
NEVER disrupt two Necromancers. Capice?

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l33telboi
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Re: Fed hand weapons against any armour what so ever

Post by l33telboi » Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:45 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:Why are you two bothering with a thread that pretty much ended more than 3 years ago?
Granted there's no hard and fast rule against thread necromacy here, but still...
-Mike
Hey man, it was at the top of the screen, so it was fair game. :P

Actually, I didn't know it was an old thread.

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Re: Fed hand weapons against any armour what so ever

Post by Praeothmin » Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:25 pm

It was an old thread until JasonB dug it out.
But, I imagine, seeing as how l33telboi hadn't posted in the thread, it was only logical that he did once it came back up for air... :)

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Re: Fed hand weapons against any armour what so ever

Post by Mike DiCenso » Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:56 pm

The problem is that what has needed to be said in the thread has been said. There's no point in responding to Darth Tanner anymore as the guy is long gone and hasn't participated in any thread in more than 2 years. Basically Tanner is saying that Storm Trooper armor can't be penetrated by phasers because phasers don't do DET. Everyone here at the time then pounces on him with enough counter-examples to choke a blue whale as well as show the fallacies being employed in his arguements (i.e. he tries to claim some shots from a phase pistol clearly stated to be set to stun as seen in an episode of ST:ENT which hit wood with no apparent effect are high-powered phasers blasts, thus he is pulling examples out of their proper context in order to prop up his questionable thesis).
-Mike

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Re: Fed hand weapons against any armour what so ever

Post by Jedi Master Spock » Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:30 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:The problem is that what has needed to be said in the thread has been said. There's no point in responding to Darth Tanner anymore as the guy is long gone and hasn't participated in any thread in more than 2 years.
He could always come back, especially if someone did something that tripped an e-mail notification. Although he may not still hold his original position.

And third/fourth parties may always wish to reopen the discussion because they feel the need to express an opinion on the topic; sometimes other original participants may also change their minds, too.

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Re:

Post by User1627 » Wed May 25, 2011 3:37 am

Praeothmin wrote:In DS9's first season, when trying to get to Bashir and some ambassadors who are stuck in a burning compartment, Sisko and Kira fire at a wall, and vaporize, not NDF, about a half meter circle of bulkhead, almost 2 inches thick. You can actually see the smoke coming from the bulkhead when they fire, proving not NDF, but DET effects from phasers.

Also, notice how everyone hit by phaser fire is pushed backwards?
That means that phasers also pack quite a kinetic punch.
How much kinetic energy is needed to push a 150 pounds human back 1 foot?

Then there's the episode in TNG where Rikers blows up (again, no NDF) a rock with the smaller type phaser.

And finally, I have the honor of using a Warsie claim against SW.
The shield generator's blast on Hoth was due to the energy reserves that was in it.
Look at the scene carefully:
After the order of firing at full power was given, we notice first the explosion of the laser cannons, and then the big explosion of the generator.
That's consistent with what happens when you destroys parts of a power generator: it short circuits, or it overloads, and it blows up.
In order to create a shield that was powerful enough to stop bombardment from orbit, then the generator had to manage huge amounts of energy.
Thus, the big explosion...
have a better one, more straight forward...


F#$@ off you F#$@ing F#$@-job. I know you, you F#$@ing TW@ I am gonna come over htere and rip your F#$@ing eyes out and use them for F#$@ing marbles.



wasn't that pleasant? imagine someoen saying that.... he'd be missing alot of teeth right now lol

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Re: Fed hand weapons against any armour what so ever

Post by User1626 » Wed May 25, 2011 4:32 am

Jasonb wrote:Fed hand weapon phasers but Federation most hand weapon likl CRM 114. Shuttlecrafts could also attack ground vehicles.
CRM114? You can penetrate that with OPE.

ROTFLMAO

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Re: Fed hand weapons against any armour what so ever

Post by StarWarsStarTrek » Thu May 26, 2011 9:12 pm

In Star Trek Voyager: Deadlock, phaser beams hitting unarmored redshirts do not even penetrate the red uniforms of the targets.

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