$1'250 to dulcify martyrdom

[Who is like God arbour]

Security officials say captured Mumbai gunman was promised cash for family if 'martyred'
By RAMOLA TALWAR BADAM | Associated Press Writer
2:59 PM EST, December 3, 2008



MUMBAI, India (AP) _ The only gunman captured during the terror attack on Mumbai says he was promised that his impoverished family would get $1,250 if he died fighting for militant Islam, security officials said Wednesday.

The captive, 21-year-old Ajmal Amir Kasab, is from Faridkot village in the Punjab region of Pakistan, according to the two Indian officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to publicly discuss details gleaned during a week of interrogation.

Kasab was arrested hours after the three-day rampage began the night of Nov. 26. Photographs of the young man walking calmly through Mumbai's main train station — assault rifle in hand — have made him a symbol of the attacks that killed 171 people, including 26 foreigners.

India has blamed the banned Pakistan-based extremist group Lashkar-e-Taiba for the carnage. But in an interview on CNN's "Larry King Live," Pakistan's president, Asif Ali Zardari, expressed skepticism that the man in custody is a Pakistani citizen.

According to the Indian security officials, Kasab was a day laborer, like one of his brothers, before joining Lashkar. He recounted being told that if he was "shaheed" — or "martyred" — his family would receive 100,000 Pakistani rupees, or about $1,250, they said.

Kasab said that he and the nine gunmen killed during the attack were hand-picked for the Mumbai rampage after intensive Lashkar training, the officials said.

He told police that after landing by boat in Mumbai, the attackers split into two-man teams. Kasab and another gunman, Ismail Khan, took a taxi from the waterfront to the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus, where they killed 54 people before fleeing. They planted a bomb under the driver's seat of their taxi that exploded later, apparently so it would divert police during the attacks.

Kasab also said the team brought in bombs to be placed outside the entrances of the two luxury hotels that were attacked — timed to explode four hours and 57 minutes after they were set — and were intended to kill the police that the militants believed would surround the buildings.

Two bombs outside the Taj Mahal hotel were defused by police. A third bomb, at the Oberoi hotel, was set off by police in a controlled explosion.

Kasab also said the gunmen took amphetamines to stay alert during the attacks, the security officials said.

In what for a wonderful world we are living.

There are people who refuse to work for "only" $1,250 per month because, what they are getting from social services is enough to them.

And then there are people who are willing to throw away their live for non-recurring $1,250 for their bereaved.

And the first and the society from where they are coming are wondering, why they are hated by the second and the society from where they are coming.

[Airlocke_Jedi_Knight]

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, WAIT. Are you saying that by this guy agreeing to kill innocent people AND die doing so in order to give his family a few dollars is better than Americans because 5% of our country are lazy and irresponsible. Please explain your statements, because, to some, they may seem misleading. I really hope that that is not what you are insinuating.

[Who is like God arbour]

I think, you should consider other possible interpretations of my words.

I didn't want to imply, that this guy (or the society from where he is coming) is better than the 5 % of your country, that is lazy and irresponsible - according to your words.

I really don't see, how that can be the result of your interpretation of my words. That was really not, what I have said or meant and it should be obviously.

[mojo]

Security officials say captured Mumbai gunman was promised cash for family if 'martyred'
By RAMOLA TALWAR BADAM | Associated Press Writer
2:59 PM EST, December 3, 2008



MUMBAI, India (AP) _ The only gunman captured during the terror attack on Mumbai says he was promised that his impoverished family would get $1,250 if he died fighting for militant Islam, security officials said Wednesday.

The captive, 21-year-old Ajmal Amir Kasab, is from Faridkot village in the Punjab region of Pakistan, according to the two Indian officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to publicly discuss details gleaned during a week of interrogation.

Kasab was arrested hours after the three-day rampage began the night of Nov. 26. Photographs of the young man walking calmly through Mumbai's main train station — assault rifle in hand — have made him a symbol of the attacks that killed 171 people, including 26 foreigners.

India has blamed the banned Pakistan-based extremist group Lashkar-e-Taiba for the carnage. But in an interview on CNN's "Larry King Live," Pakistan's president, Asif Ali Zardari, expressed skepticism that the man in custody is a Pakistani citizen.

According to the Indian security officials, Kasab was a day laborer, like one of his brothers, before joining Lashkar. He recounted being told that if he was "shaheed" — or "martyred" — his family would receive 100,000 Pakistani rupees, or about $1,250, they said.

Kasab said that he and the nine gunmen killed during the attack were hand-picked for the Mumbai rampage after intensive Lashkar training, the officials said.

He told police that after landing by boat in Mumbai, the attackers split into two-man teams. Kasab and another gunman, Ismail Khan, took a taxi from the waterfront to the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus, where they killed 54 people before fleeing. They planted a bomb under the driver's seat of their taxi that exploded later, apparently so it would divert police during the attacks.

Kasab also said the team brought in bombs to be placed outside the entrances of the two luxury hotels that were attacked — timed to explode four hours and 57 minutes after they were set — and were intended to kill the police that the militants believed would surround the buildings.

Two bombs outside the Taj Mahal hotel were defused by police. A third bomb, at the Oberoi hotel, was set off by police in a controlled explosion.

Kasab also said the gunmen took amphetamines to stay alert during the attacks, the security officials said.

In what for a wonderful world we are living.

There are people who refuse to work for "only" $1,250 per month because, what they are getting from social services is enough to them.

And then there are people who are willing to throw away their live for non-recurring $1,250 for their bereaved.

And the first and the society from where they are coming are wondering, why they are hated by the second and the society from where they are coming.

I think, that you should explain another possible interpretation of your words, because it seems like what you're saying is that Americans are hated because we aren't willing to go around KILLING PEOPLE to put food on our tables. It really does read as if you're claiming moral superiority for the guy who made the 1,250.

[Praeothmin]

WILGA, you might have chosen the wrong words.
I could see why some people would envy Europeens or North Americans who live in "riches" because of our living standards, but hating us because some of us receive more money to be lazy then they'll ever have in their whole lives might be a bit overboard.

Could you please clarify what you meant WILGA?
Thanks.

[Airlocke_Jedi_Knight]

WILGA, I have read and reread that post many times, now. Somewhere close to 50. I can see no other interpretation. I can only hope that this is a result of the language barrier.

[ILikeDeathNote]

Obvious trolling is obvious.

[Cocytus]

Am I missing something here? Did WILGA edit something crucial out of his post? I don't see the words "America," "terrorism," "justified," or "moral superiority" anywhere in his post.

Why in the hell is it that everytime someone makes a complaint about the disproportionate amount of world resources Westerners consume, people construe their statements as an attack on America? Aside from the fallaciousness of such an assumption, it is NEVER, I REPEAT, NEVER unpatriotic to point out areas where America could improve. It is, in point of fact, the HIGHEST form of patriotism to work towards a more perfect union.

And it is not surprising that the so many who have so little would hate the so few who have so much. America accounts for a mere 5 percent of the world's population, yet we consume far more than 5 percent of its resources. I'm not saying their hatred is justified, (and neither did WILGA) but it isn't surprising.

[mojo]

cocytus, your response is even more disturbing than the original post. either you're blind or you just don't care. it couldn't be more obvious that he was implying moral superiority for the terrorist, and the idea that THREE PEOPLE IN A ROW could get a completely nonexistent idea from wilga's words is absurd. maybe next time pay a little more attention to what you're reading rather than just lining up to either kiss wilga's ass or flame the shit out of the newbies. what's more, it's not as if either locke or i went off on wilga, we simply pointed out that he seemed to be saying something very offensive and then asked him to show us where our mistake in comprehending what he was trying to say was.
and you know what? neither locke nor i have EVER implied that criticizing america's faults is wrong or unpatriotic. what we were saying is that it may be a bit much to imply that a man who kills dozens of people so that his family can eat is morally superior to an american living off the dole. all we did was ask a question, a very simple question, which you might notice wilga HAS NOT ANSWERED. why? BECAUSE THE ANSWER IS MOST LIKELY THAT HE WAS SAYING EXACTLY WHAT WE THOUGHT HE WAS SAYING.
you didn't even bother to read our posts, did you? you just skimmed over them and then flamed us to hell and gone.

[Airlocke_Jedi_Knight]

Agreed, fully. His meaning could not have been more clear, however, I am willing to accept that it was due to his little knowledge of the language. You, however, have no excuse. It is not wrong to assume that America isn't perfect, it is far from it, but we didn't say that. THIS GUY KILLED INNOCENT PEOPLE FOR MONEY! That is called a mercenary. Mercenaries have never been acceptable. To assume that this terrorist merc. has a reason to hate lazy Americans is ABSURD! Unless, of course, we have misunderstood you. Well, is that your excuse?

[Who is like God arbour]

mojo,

• That post was put on yesterday. And I have already once answered to a post.
  
  But because I haven't answered since then, you assume that I haven't answered because MY ANSWER WOULD BE MOST LIKELY THAT I WAS SAYING EXACTLY WHAT YOU THOUGHT I WAS SAYING.
  
  Excuse my, but don't you see yourself, how stupid it is, to jump to such a conclusion.
  
  Couldn't there have been other reasons, why I haven't answered yet?
  
  Could it be, that some persons have work to do and aren't able to sit the whole day in front of their computer, ready to answer each post in a forum?

And Cocytus,

• I thank you.
  
  In my editing, I have only corrected misspellings. I have not changed the content.
  
  And you are correct: There is and was no connection to "America".
  
  Hey, I'm coming from Germany. Why would I write about American social welfare freeloaders? If at all, I would write about German social welfare freeloaders.
  
  I simply can't understand, how some Americans can feel attacked by those words, although they weren't even mentioned. But if the shoe fits...
  
  What I wanted to decry was, as you have said, the disproportionate amount of world resources. There is a man, who was willing to let himself be killed for $ 1'250 for his bereaved, while that amount of money is in other parts of the world a drop in a bucket.
  
  And I have hoped, that some of you would come to the conclusion, that it is that poverty, that leads to terrorism. That is a fact - without any moral valuation. But the logical conclusion would have to be, that the best way to fight terrorism is to fight poverty.
  
  Do you think, that this man would have agreed to let himself be killed, if his familiy would have enough money to survive and wouldn't be dependent on this $ 1'250.
  
  And, if $ 1'250 single payment is already enough to get that man to agree to let himself be killed, how easy would it be for rich western worlds, in which § 1'250 per month isn't enough for some social welfare freeloaders to start to work, to effectively fight poverty.
  
  That was, what I was driving at.
  
  But no, instead to hold in for a minute and think, how it can be, that a man is willing to let himself be killed for $ 1'250, you feel attacked and get aggressive.

In what for a wonderful world we are living.

[mojo]

i apologize.

obviously we are too defensive on these things, but i don't think it's just locke and i. i think americans in general are just so used to being attacked that any issue that could possibly relate to us causes us to take leave of our senses and react in a hostile manner. we were wrong, though, and i think i can speak for locke as well when i say we retract our statements and will try to keep a more open mind in the future.

[Praeothmin]

WILGA, I didn't think you were defending the acts, I simply wanted you to explain your post so that those who thought you were condoning the murders would know what you really wanted to say.

Also I was disagreeing with the word "Hate", because the acts to which you were referring had nothing to do with hate, and everything to do with (as you pointed out) poverty.

While I agree that fighting poverty in the world would make it a better place, we would not eliminate Terrorism, simply because most terrorists are religious "zealots" who attack others because of their extreme interpretation of their religious beliefs.
Although I agree that fighting poverty would reduce terrorism because it would take away many "pawns" used (and bought) by terrorists...

Anyway, I'm glad you clarified the meaning of your post, that way everyone will know wxactly what you meant.

Oh, and, guys?
Next time you see something offensive, and demand an explanation, could you do it politely, and also, perhaps, give the person enough time to actually respond before you go off the deep end?
Thanks.
:)

[mojo]

while i agree that our interpretations were perhaps overly critical, i disagree with the idea that i was impolite in my post toward wilga. i think you're mistaking the offensiveness of what i thought he was saying for impoliteness.

and while i can't argue that i was similarly polite in my later post, i was being directly attacked at the time.

i won't even pretend, though, that i gave wilga a sufficient amount of time to respond. i will say however that i never would've posted in the thread again without provocation. both locke and i would have waited for wilga to respond if we had not been attacked.

the whole thing was apparently a misunderstanding in the first place, but i can't believe that we were the only people who saw it in that light. members of my own forum saw the same thing we saw and had the same interpretation. i apologized for jumping the gun, i don't know what else i can do.

[Cocytus]

and while I can't pretend that I was similarly polite in my later post, I was being directly attacked at the time.

Both Locke and I would have waited for WILGA to respond if we had not been attacked.

Let me see. I pointed out your misunderstanding, and for that I've been called blind, accused of not caring, told I was kissing WILGA's ass and that I was flaming (that last one is hysterical) and YOU'RE the ones being attacked?

Ridiculous.

You are right about one thing, though. I did read into your post the bit about "you can't criticize America or you're unpatriotic." See, it doesn't feel good when people read things into other people's posts that aren't there, does it?