Clone Wars CGI Series

[ILikeDeathNote]

That would be even worse for them, because nothing in the movies support the ICS...

You clearly don't have a lot of experience dealing with Warsies, don't you? ;)

[watchdog]

Never discount peoples ability to compleatly delude themselves. I havent really seen the clone wars yet, I breifly caught the first episode while I was on leave in L.A. I tried the link to cartoon network but as I am back in Iraq now, it will only play for people in the U.S. I'll see if I can find it elsewhere. I fully expect that we will never see the type of firepower the warsies always claim, Lucas doesnt work that way. For our warsie friends the evidence of multi gigaton firepower will always be circumstantial and questionable :D

[ILikeDeathNote]

Lucas doesnt work that way.

The only way Lucas works is by trying to tell the story he's trying to tell. Now, granted, the prequels taught us that he might not always be able to tell it the way he meant for it to be experienced, but it's clear that Warsies forget it's a story first.

[Mith]

As noted on SB.com, I thought it was a great episode. Despite the constant crying of a few hardcore warsies, General Grievous is actually smarter than I would often give SW villians credit for. We saw his clever trick with the asteroids, then he ordered that all the fighters be launched to destroy one fighter (given how lucky Anakin has been in their engagements, that's saying something). Really, when you look at it, he has shown himself to be all that incompetent, just incredibly unlucky.

Debate analysis

The frigates having to put all power towards the forward shields clearly shows that these aren't as powerful as some nut jobs would have us believe. The only thing here is that a warsie might try and claim that they were just double fronting the forward shields for enemy weapons because they didn't need it for the aft.

I also found it strange that during the attack, that the CIS ships were only firing with their forward main guns...but didn't vaporize the fighters when they were hit (the attack didn't show any other guns firing, but it is possible that this might have been the case).

The AT-TEs being able to tear apart capital ships is downright astonishing, and really takes another shot at ICS. Of course, a warsie might claim dialed up firepower, but we have no evidence of this being the case.

Finally, the ships don't last nearly as long as we're told by some sources; the one Venator didn't last long before she took some heavy damage.

[Mike DiCenso]

As noted on SB.com, I thought it was a great episode. Despite the constant crying of a few hardcore warsies, General Grievous is actually smarter than I would often give SW villians credit for. We saw his clever trick with the asteroids, then he ordered that all the fighters be launched to destroy one fighter (given how lucky Anakin has been in their engagements, that's saying something). Really, when you look at it, he has shown himself to be all that incompetent, just incredibly unlucky.

Heh. Do you have a link to the SB.com thread?

The frigates having to put all power towards the forward shields clearly shows that these aren't as powerful as some nut jobs would have us believe. The only thing here is that a warsie might try and claim that they were just double fronting the forward shields for enemy weapons because they didn't need it for the aft.

Do we have any good estimates of the relative impact velocities of the asteroids as well as their size/mass? I've seen 60 or so meters bantered about, but is that reliable?

I also found it strange that during the attack, that the CIS ships were only firing with their forward main guns...but didn't vaporize the fighters when they were hit (the attack didn't show any other guns firing, but it is possible that this might have been the case).

Ah, but you see it was the starfighters' googleplexwatt shields with neutrino sinks and neutronium hull plating that prevented them from being vaporized! ;-)

The AT-TEs being able to tear apart capital ships is downright astonishing, and really takes another shot at ICS. Of course, a warsie might claim dialed up firepower, but we have no evidence of this being the case.

Based on the AT-ATs from nearly a generation later, I seriously doubt that the AT-AEs have better than single-digit gigajoule range firepower.
-Mike

[Mith]

Heh. Do you have a link to the SB.com thread?

Of course:

http://forum.spacebattles.com/showthread.php?t=140426

You'll note my post there about how pathetic and childish some of these people are being. Even more so because they want to keep getting away from the main characters of Star Wars. I find it odd that these people love it so much...but hate the main characters =P

Do we have any good estimates of the relative impact velocities of the asteroids as well as their size/mass? I've seen 60 or so meters bantered about, but is that reliable?

I haven't really seen anything yet, but they aren't likely to be any larger than that.

Ah, but you see it was the starfighters' googleplexwatt shields with neutrino sinks and neutronium hull plating that prevented them from being vaporized! ;-)

Indeed. Although in this case even I want to look the other way, given just how absurd it is, but I'm sure it's probably just an outlier.

Based on the AT-ATs from nearly a generation later, I seriously doubt that the AT-AEs have better than single-digit gigajoule range firepower.
-Mike

Indeed, although the AT-ATs are really not that impressive. Their heavy armor grants them some nice defensive capabilities, but their design is so horribly flawd and silly that it is rather apparent why they're designed that way as opposed to the AT-AEs; they're meant to be scary, not tactically sound. That matches up with everything we know about the Empire though, so I don't really see the problem with that.

[2046]

In this episode, Grievous talks about moving through the rocks to attack the Republic Venators while said Venators are plainly visible outside the window.

Yet another low-range incident.

And how about that sensor technology? No picking up power emissions or lifesigns or anything so long as the AT-TEs were parked behind a rock.

I am interested in the solid asteroid bouncing off the forward shield/hull . . . that might not be a bad incident. See also the refire rates of most weapons.

[Praeothmin]

I am interested in the solid asteroid bouncing off the forward shield/hull . . . that might not be a bad incident.

The shields were up at that moment, because immediately after the jolt, Grevious orders shields to be doubled in front, not raised and doubled.

Also, is it me, or are all the droids in the SW galaxy even stupider then an old Mac?
Battledroids are dumber then a brick, the new and improved R3 unit was even more innefficient then battledroids...

Why can't anybody program anything correctly in SW?

Still, yes, I do enjoy it, and I will want it when it comes out on DVD... :)

[l33telboi]

I am interested in the solid asteroid bouncing off the forward shield/hull . . . that might not be a bad incident. See also the refire rates of most weapons.

I did a quick scaling on the matter and then ran the numbers:



All in all, you'll be hard pressed to get the incident beyond the terajoule range (more likely either double-digit gigajoule or triple-digit gigajoule). But yes, this is generally higher then what we see in visual Sci-fi. Momentum is a little more impressive, but then again this episode shows us that it's not momentum that's the problem but the kinetic energy. Why project shields double-front if the shield generator is the weak link?

EDIT: Alright, it seems photobucket both reduced the size of the pic, so it's not quite accurate.

[watchdog]

You'll note my post there about how pathetic and childish some of these people are being. Even more so because they want to keep getting away from the main characters of Star Wars. I find it odd that these people love it so much...but hate the main characters =P

People can be pretty funny, I suspect that most of these people dont really care about star wars, they just want to use the fan-wank to club star trek like a baby seal.
One thing I found kind of interesting was my nephews, 10, 8 and 5 knew almost nothing about the original trilogy aside from the fact that Darth Vader is in it. They could name every jedi seen on screen easily but I could easily stump them with questions from the original. For them, it's all about the jedi, they dont know much about anything else.

Indeed, although the AT-ATs are really not that impressive. Their heavy armor grants them some nice defensive capabilities, but their design is so horribly flawd and silly that it is rather apparent why they're designed that way as opposed to the AT-AEs; they're meant to be scary, not tactically sound. That matches up with everything we know about the Empire though, so I don't really see the problem with that.

This reminds me of something I read years ago, someone asked an Army officer what he thought of the AT-AT's. His response was that they were everything you would not want in a troop transport; slow, shakes the troops up to much and big top-heavy targets.

I really do need to find an online video site where I can view these episodes, this sounds pretty interesting. I'm also wondering about how these new shows fit in with the original animated clone wars show on CN, is that show now forgotten and ignored?

[Mike DiCenso]

I did a quick scaling on the matter and then ran the numbers:

All in all, you'll be hard pressed to get the incident beyond the terajoule range (more likely either double-digit gigajoule or triple-digit gigajoule). But yes, this is generally higher then what we see in visual Sci-fi. Momentum is a little more impressive, but then again this episode shows us that it's not momentum that's the problem but the kinetic energy. Why project shields double-front if the shield generator is the weak link?

I'am not sure if I understand your little quickie graphic, l33telboi. I get that the Munificent is supposed to be 825 meters long, but are the other lines supposed to be representive of the asteroids' sizes? So are the asteroids 29 and 43 meters wide by your reckoning?
-Mike

[Mike DiCenso]

You'll note my post there about how pathetic and childish some of these people are being. Even more so because they want to keep getting away from the main characters of Star Wars. I find it odd that these people love it so much...but hate the main characters =P

I wonder how they'll react when the upcoming live-action TV series comes along with characters who have nothing to do with the main SW OT and PT storyline.

Indeed, although the AT-ATs are really not that impressive. Their heavy armor grants them some nice defensive capabilities, but their design is so horribly flawd and silly that it is rather apparent why they're designed that way as opposed to the AT-AEs; they're meant to be scary, not tactically sound. That matches up with everything we know about the Empire though, so I don't really see the problem with that.

Actually, there isn't all that much that is tactically "sound" as far as SW is concerned. AT-AEs and AT-ATs are pointless precisely because someone with a little basic knowlege in tactics could employ trenches, pits and mines, special commandoes to slow down or destroy them. They're worthless, except for their armor, and even that is not all that impressive given the actual demonstrated firepower involved.
-Mike

[Mith]

People can be pretty funny, I suspect that most of these people dont really care about star wars, they just want to use the fan-wank to club star trek like a baby seal.

That's really all it has ever been about. Claiming inflated yields for something they really don't even like themselves.

Even more amusing? The next episode (the one after this week) includes Jar-Jar.

God that is going to be painful.

He's probably going to make everyone cry when he manages to out wit B1s and B2s.

One thing I found kind of interesting was my nephews, 10, 8 and 5 knew almost nothing about the original trilogy aside from the fact that Darth Vader is in it. They could name every jedi seen on screen easily but I could easily stump them with questions from the original. For them, it's all about the jedi, they dont know much about anything else.

Yeah, after A New Hope, the focus on the Jedi has grown.

This reminds me of something I read years ago, someone asked an Army officer what he thought of the AT-AT's. His response was that they were everything you would not want in a troop transport; slow, shakes the troops up to much and big top-heavy targets.

Of course they are. They're meant to indimidate civilians. That's it. Their military capabilities are just downright zero. Simply digging a series of large trenches would be enough to seriously slow down or even stop an AT-AT. Not to mention the horrid weak point of the legs.

I really do need to find an online video site where I can view these episodes, this sounds pretty interesting. I'm also wondering about how these new shows fit in with the original animated clone wars show on CN, is that show now forgotten and ignored?

Youtube has them, the SW.com website, and probably Cartoon Network.com.

And the old show is being overwritten I'm guessing, given the events occuring in this series, which is good since it had a lot of wankish and somewhat absurd moments (like clones boarding an enemy ship...in space by simply jumping onto it when they lost their own ship.

[GStone]

Surfthechannel used to have it, but the main page is down.

[ILikeDeathNote]

A quick question:

They did the "hide AT-TEs in the asteroid" trick in the first part of the last story arc, but wasn't that also tried in the movie?