United Federation of Planets vs Galacitic Empire

[KirkSkyWalker]

Exactly what it says in title. Who wins an all-out war? How their militaries compare? (And yes, Starfleet IS Federation military).

Exactly what it says in title. Who wins an all-out war? How their militaries compare? (And yes, Starfleet IS Federation military).

It's more complicted than that:
----------------------------------------------------------
KIRK: Bones, your report?
MCCOY: "Way-ul, Jim, it seems that their entire galaxy is... infested, with some sort of microscopic parasites, or symbiants, I don't know what they are. In some ways they resemble the ones that invaded our own galaxy-- the ones that killed your brother, Sam.
SPOCK: Indeed, Captain; my own analysis of this species, reveals that they have a similar telepathic collective intelligence, and can control the behavior of their host-organisms.
MCCOY: Now just a minute, Spock, there's more to it than that. They're not micro-organisms-- they're organelles: they inhabit every single cell of certain host-organisms. It seems that they work with every organism's bio-electric erergy field, and help regulate its whole system somehow.
SPOCK: And likewise these creatures can control the organism itself, even reading its innermost thoughts, impulses, and controlling its actions..
KIRK: Spock, you said the operate-- "collectively?"
SPOCK: A collective intelligence, Captain; however unlike those we encountered, they are much smaller, and seem confined to this galaxy only, rather than existing outside of it as well.
KiIRK: Is it possible, then, that they're able to control these-- bio-energy fields collectively as well?
SPOCK: Captain?
MCCOY: I don't see what difference that makes, Jim; an organism can't produce more than a little bit of bio-energy, it couldn't possibly affect anything outside of it.
KIRK:Not by itself, Bones; but Spock, you said that there were over a million inhabited worlds in that galaxy, and maybe billions of others with life on them, in some form or another; is it possible that these creatures could control bio-energy outside of themselves as well, and it collectively?
SPOCK: Fascinating. It would seem to explain the strange energy-field which we seemed to detect from our scans of their galaxy.
MCCOY: Even if they could, Jim, what could they possibly do with it?
SPOCK: It is possible that they could utilize this energy locally in some areas, around any organism that carries these parasites.
KIRK: Bones?
MCCOY: I've never quite seen anything like this, Jim; its as if their entire galaxy is completely under the control of these... "creatures" in some way.
KIRK: So you two are saying that the entire galaxy is under mind-control byf these organisms?
MCCOY: I'm afraid it's not only that, Jim; it seems that certain individuals have extremely high levels of them; perhaps they[re are able to control this energy-field the most.
SPOCK: It would seem that these are the ones who act as minions to lead and manipulate the others.
KIRK: But why? What do they stand to gain from it-- what's their motive?
SPOCK: If they feed off of bio-energy, then it is indeed possible that they also feed off of emotion; they may manipulate the sentients of the galaxy, leading them into war and discord for this reason. We have certainly experienced something similar.
MCCOY: But that was only on our one ship; are you saying that a whole galaxy could be locked forever in a state of war, just to entertain some alien parasites?
SPOCK: I did not speak on their enjoyment, doctor; I am simply stating that if they require emotion in order to survive, then they would simply be acting in accordance.
MCCOY: Well, it would tend to explain their rather primitive state of development; they're using some of the most archaic medical techniques I've seen outside of a pre-warp civilization.
KIRK: Wait a minute Bones-- you say that their medical technology hasn't advanced in thousands of years either?
MCCOY: Not only that, Jim, they don't even seem to have any doctors! All they seem to have are medical-robots, which I wouldn't even trust as a last resort.It's almost as if their medical-technology is even less advanced than their other technology.
KIRK: Spock, could it be that this was to keep then from curing themselves of these parasites?
SPOCK: That would seem to be the most logical answer' however, it's possible that the inhabitants of this galaxy may not even know they are are parasites.
MCCOY: What are you saying Spock; that these people want to be infected under mind-control?
SPOCK: Emotionally stated, but that is exactly what I am saying. After thousands of years, a civilization which is knowledgable of its captors and oppressors, will tend to view them as their benefactors and dieties.
KIRK: Gentlemen, I don't intend to get into the ethics of this; we are at war, and this is no time to argue over the scruples of it. Now Bones, can you get rid of these parasites, or not?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And you can write your own follow-up from there; it's not about itnergalactic war, but something far more significant regarding what The Force really is, and whether it's even a good thing, or just a mythical false prophecy based on an unknown enemy who's causing it.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Exactly what it says in title. Who wins an all-out war? How their militaries compare? (And yes, Starfleet IS Federation military).

Exactly what it says in title. Who wins an all-out war? How their militaries compare? (And yes, Starfleet IS Federation military).

It's more complicted than that:
----------------------------------------------------------
KIRK: Bones, your report?
MCCOY: "Way-ul, Jim, it seems that their entire galaxy is... infested, with some sort of microscopic parasites, or symbiants, I don't know what they are. In some ways they resemble the ones that invaded our own galaxy-- the ones that killed your brother, Sam.
SPOCK: Indeed, Captain; my own analysis of this species, reveals that they have a similar telepathic collective intelligence, and can control the behavior of their host-organisms.
MCCOY: Now just a minute, Spock, there's more to it than that. They're not micro-organisms-- they're organelles: they inhabit every single cell of certain host-organisms. It seems that they work with every organism's bio-electric erergy field, and help regulate its whole system somehow.
SPOCK: And likewise these creatures can control the organism itself, even reading its innermost thoughts, impulses, and controlling its actions..
KIRK: Spock, you said the operate-- "collectively?"
SPOCK: A collective intelligence, Captain; however unlike those we encountered, they are much smaller, and seem confined to this galaxy only, rather than existing outside of it as well.
KiIRK: Is it possible, then, that they're able to control these-- bio-energy fields collectively as well?
SPOCK: Captain?
MCCOY: I don't see what difference that makes, Jim; an organism can't produce more than a little bit of bio-energy, it couldn't possibly affect anything outside of it.
KIRK:Not by itself, Bones; but Spock, you said that there were over a million inhabited worlds in that galaxy, and maybe billions of others with life on them, in some form or another; is it possible that these creatures could control bio-energy outside of themselves as well, and it collectively?
SPOCK: Fascinating. It would seem to explain the strange energy-field which we seemed to detect from our scans of their galaxy.
MCCOY: Even if they could, Jim, what could they possibly do with it?
SPOCK: It is possible that they could utilize this energy locally in some areas, around any organism that carries these parasites.
KIRK: Bones?
MCCOY: I've never quite seen anything like this, Jim; its as if their entire galaxy is completely under the control of these... "creatures" in some way.
KIRK: So you two are saying that the entire galaxy is under mind-control byf these organisms?
MCCOY: I'm afraid it's not only that, Jim; it seems that certain individuals have extremely high levels of them; perhaps they[re are able to control this energy-field the most.
SPOCK: It would seem that these are the ones who act as minions to lead and manipulate the others.
KIRK: But why? What do they stand to gain from it-- what's their motive?
SPOCK: If they feed off of bio-energy, then it is indeed possible that they also feed off of emotion; they may manipulate the sentients of the galaxy, leading them into war and discord for this reason. We have certainly experienced something similar.
MCCOY: But that was only on our one ship; are you saying that a whole galaxy could be locked forever in a state of war, just to entertain some alien parasites?
SPOCK: I did not speak on their enjoyment, doctor; I am simply stating that if they require emotion in order to survive, then they would simply be acting in accordance.
MCCOY: Well, it would tend to explain their rather primitive state of development; they're using some of the most archaic medical techniques I've seen outside of a pre-warp civilization.
KIRK: Wait a minute Bones-- you say that their medical technology hasn't advanced in thousands of years either?
MCCOY: Not only that, Jim, they don't even seem to have any doctors! All they seem to have are medical-robots, which I wouldn't even trust as a last resort.It's almost as if their medical-technology is even less advanced than their other technology.
KIRK: Spock, could it be that this was to keep then from curing themselves of these parasites?
SPOCK: That would seem to be the most logical answer' however, it's possible that the inhabitants of this galaxy may not even know they are are parasites.
MCCOY: What are you saying Spock; that these people want to be infected under mind-control?
SPOCK: Emotionally stated, but that is exactly what I am saying. After thousands of years, a civilization which is knowledgable of its captors and oppressors, will tend to view them as their benefactors and dieties.
KIRK: Gentlemen, I don't intend to get into the ethics of this; we are at war, and this is no time to argue over the scruples of it. Now Bones, can you get rid of these parasites, or not?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And you can write your own follow-up from there; it's not about itnergalactic war, but something far more significant regarding what The Force really is, and whether it's even a good thing, or just a mythical false prophecy based on an unknown enemy who's causing it.

"KirkSkywalker"

What's that?
Youngla 2.0? JMS' secret brother?

[KirkSkyWalker]

"KirkSkywalker"

What's that?
Youngla 2.0? JMS' secret brother?

Well, HALF-brother perhaps, if I know anything about Kirk....

[Who is like God arbour]

I enjoyed to read that dialogue.

I thought it "sounded" more or less exactly like what Bones, Spock and Kirk would have said.

And the theory about the FORCE is ... fascinating and of consequence.

I'd like to read an elaborated fanfiction from which that dialogue is a part of.

[Mike DiCenso]

Actually, that would make for the basis of a good fanfic, as the dialog is fairly well written, and KirkSkywalker shows a pretty good understanding of the characters. Furthermore, this is actually an excellent point being made here about the nature of the Force as a totalitarian entity oppressing the SW galaxy's peoples for it's own ends, and it fits well with the Force allowing countless billions of sapients to die horribly so it can seek balance with itself or whatever, or to perhaps provide itself with amusement.

In fact, this would make a rather interesting counterpoint to the Wong/SDN "The Federation is Communist state that uses mind control on people" BS propadanda they keep spreading about.
-Mike

[KirkSkyWalker]

For the record, Mike Wong also accused Today's Parent magazine, a delightful parenting magazine and website, of being "white supremacist" simply because they didn't consider racial quotas when ranking the best cities in Canada for parents to raise children-- and it's not surprising that Mike also hypocritically chose their #1 top-rated city to raise his children-- but then bashes the magazine for recommending it: i.e. it's ok when he does it, but when anyone else does it then he paints a "white hood" on them.

So you have to take all Mike's claims with a grain (or more) of Prozac; to wit from his personal home page (of which the links supply "too much information," if you konw what I mean):
"Rebecca and I came from different worlds. I grew up in Toronto, which is the fifth largest metropolitan city in North America. It's the most racially and culturally diverse city in Canada and it's a great place to live, unless you're a white supremacist and you agree with Today's Parent magazine, which picked the monocultural, nearly 100% white enclave of Quebec City as Canada's best city, and ranked the two most multicultural and multiracial cities in the country (Toronto and Vancouver) at the very bottom. My parents were scientists (my mother holds a master's degree in chemistry and my father holds a doctorate in nuclear physics), and they raised me to be a rationalist."

Didn't work, IMHO.

As for the fanfic: I just made that piece up yesterday on the spot, to illustrate that all war is typically based on misinformation; and when you're talking about a war between different galaxies, then there's something seriously wrong going on in at least one of them. And Kirk usually didn't just go launching into war without first finding the causes behind it, and how to stop it; the only exception was in "Arena," when he ignored Spock's warning that they didn't know all the facts, and so Kirk ended up learning a valuable lesson in both military restraint and makeshift gunnery.

And the situation in the Star Wars galaxy, seems to combine at least several situations faced by Kirk&Co:

1. In "Operation: Annhilate!", the galaxy was being invaded by a species of collectively-intelligent parasites, who could control their hosts; and by destroying them, the Enterprise thereby narrowly averted our own galaxy from becoming infected. This seems similar to the midichlorians, and how Luke says that the Force controls a Jedi's actions.

2. Likewise in "Plato's Stepchildren," a few aliens are able to use psychic-powers to control the entire Enterprise and crew-- but couldn't survive a simple paper-cut because of it; and this race likewise become corrupted to evil by them. This also seems similar to the Force, with regard to how Obi-wan responds that the Force also obeys a Jedi's commands-- and how the Sith abuse these powers to become evil.

3. In "The Paradise Syndrome," the entire crew is infected with symbiotic spores which also control their thoughts, preventing them from leaving the planet, in exchange for giving them perfect health and mental tranquility.This seems to resemble the benefits that the midichlorians bestow on the Jedi.

4. Finally, In "Day of the Dove," there's a powerful alien that tricks people into making war on each other-- and healing them-- in order to feed off of their emotions.This seems to be why the Sith would use the Force to create war.

So it seems that the Star Wars galaxy suffered all four of these same maladies-- in one-- via the midichlorians, and is being controlled by them. Combining these four plots, we can arrive at a situation similar to that faced by the Star Wars galaxy-- and which traps them in a cycle of war; that's the Empire didn't last long, since it was only about 20 years until Luke was allowed to start the whole war over again.

I also wrote the piece in order to address the religious/philosophical elements addressed by Star Wars and Star Trek; for example, the original Star Trek had faced similar situations before, such as an entire race of people being enslaved to feed Val, and being kept from progressing and living their own lives.
This parallels how political rulers use religion to create false beliefs among people, in order to keep them from getting wise; they likewise use war to keep the people divided and conquered, and from also getting wise to the rulers's ways.

Not surprisingly, Mike Wong resembles Stalin and other communist despots in his pro-statist attitudes, i.e in claiming that it's the free-market proponents in the Federation, who are the oppressors-- just like Karl Marx etc did as well. Meanwhile he cheers the idea of blowing up peaceful inhabited planets (and likewise weighs and measures the POWER required to do it), and the irony is clear-- as is the hypocrisy. Consider the "recruiting poster" from his own website:

-------------------------------------------------
Darth Vader pointing: "I WANT YOU for the Imperial Navy."

(Star Dstroyer pic) UNITY! STRENTH! VICTORY!
Enlist Now!

Join the Imperial Navy, Unity is strength!

(Tie-fighter pic)SPEED! RESILIENCE! VICTORY!
Enlist Now!
Join the Imperial fighter squadrons!


Do you have what it takes to become part of something greater than yourself? Do you have what it takes to serve the Empire? To help maintain peace and order throughout the galaxy? To stamp out the forces of evil and chaos that threaten the fabric of our society? If you do, then there is a place waiting for you in the Imperial Armed Forces' new EG Division.

What is EG? EG is the Imperial Armed Forces' Extra-Galactic Division (sometimes referred to as ExGal), which was created specifically to deal with alien threats and neutrals from outside our galaxy such as this mysterious human "Federation" that we have recently encountered. Its mission is to promote Imperial values and help bring the isolated, oppressed peoples of the Federation into the mainstream of Imperial society. It is also an intelligence-gathering organization, with a mandate to enhance our military, technological, and anthropological understanding of our long-lost human brethren.

Why join the Imperial Armed Forces? There are many reasons to join, from the comprehensive benefits plan to the knowledge that you are helping fulfill your civic duty by keeping the galaxy safe, the opportunity to discover new worlds and new places, and the advanced technical training that you can carry into a rewarding civilian career after your term of service ends. We also offer cash incentives for joining, and our popular Relocation Program, where you can have your family relocated to a Core world of your choice, with instant planetary citizenship and all moving expenses paid for, courtesy of the Empire.

Meet Jarren Korr, seen here with some of the men under his command. Jarren Korr has had a diverse, rewarding, and distinguished career in the Imperial Army. In the Third Fornax Uprising, his squad was pinned down by heavy fire from a nearby pillbox. He exposed himself to enemy fire in order to launch a thermal detonator at the target: an act for which he received a commendation for valour. Now, he is a member of EG Division, specializing in alien contact. "It is incredibly rewarding work" he says. "These aliens have been living for hundreds of years without hyperdrive, without decent pan-galactic travel, without even simple necessities such as droids and bacta. They're constantly under threat of extinction from other species and even a cyborg army. By bringing them into the Empire, we bring them not just civilization, but hope for the future. It can be hard work; you will always find people who oppose change, even positive change such as the Empire brings. But it's well worth it."

Pre-Emptive Defense is more than just an Imperial doctrine dating back to the discovery of the Kerenos sector wormhole. For EG Division, pre-emptive defense is a way of life. It is a philosophy which guides our actions and informs us of our duty. Every member of EG Division knows this. Even after we annex this human "Federation", that duty will remain. Eternal vigilance."
------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like a Nazi-propoganda campaign-- literally; consider one 1936 poster urges people to vote for Hitler, by noting what he has done to promote automobile ownership in Germany. The caption:
“The Führer promised to motorize Germany. In 1932, 104,000 motor vehicles were manufactured, 33,000 people were employed, and goods with a total value of 295,000,000 marks were produced. In 1935, 353,000 vehicles were manufactured, Over 100,000 people were employed, and the value of goods produced was 1,150,000,000 marks. The Führer gave 250,000 people’s comrades jobs in the auto industry and its suppliers. German people: Thank the Führer on 29 March! Give him your vote!”
Another one reads more like Mike's: it shows Hitler with the caption "“I now ask the German people to strengthen my faith and to give me through the strength of its will the strength I need to continue to fight courageously at any time for its honor and its freedom, and to be able to further its economic prosperity. I ask it particularly to support me in my struggle for true peace.”
And consider Mike's line (aka Jarren Korr): "our long-lost human brethren," ala "Aryan brotherhood--" as well as the line that "they are constantly under threat of extinction from other species." Compare this to the Nazi-ads which read "“Get the Jewish-Bolshevist warmongers out of Europe!” and "This genetically ill person will cost our people’s community 60,000 marks over his lifetime. Citizens, that is your money. Read Neues Volk, the monthly of the racial policy office of the NSDAP.” And he accuses others of being "white supremacist!"

What's even more ironic, however, is that Mike Wong would use "eternal vigilance," the words of Thomas Jefferson-- for what Jefferson declared to be the price of freedom -- in advancing what Palpatine himself declared to be a cause for "Unlimited POWER!!!"
One gets the idea, rather, that something more along the lines of "RESISTANCE IS FEUDAL" would be more appropriate.

But as Senator Padme said, "so this is how freedom ends-- with thundrous applause." If so, then the Senate must have been filled with the denizens of SD.net... and Wong would be "applauding" the loudest.

In any event, it's clear that Wong is actually KANG, i.e. he's completely under the control of the war-mongering alien, and even his wife can't talk him out of it.

The solution, is course, is for the crew to find a cure for the midichlorian parasites, which won't harm the hosts; then, maybe they can avoid being infected themslves-- which a war would surely bring. Kirk's victory, meanwhile, would bring freedom AND peace to BOTH sides.

[Khas]

Sometimes I ponder a question only Wong would know the answer to. What IS the weather like that far up his ass?

[KirkSkyWalker]

Sometimes I ponder a question only Wong would know the answer to. What IS the weather like that far up his ass?

Apparently the kind of weather where you need to wear a foil-hat, straightjacket and jackboots because he continually wears all three.

[Mike DiCenso]

Not surprisingly, Mike Wong resembles Stalin and other communist despots in his pro-statist attitudes, i.e in claiming that it's the free-market proponents in the Federation, who are the oppressors-- just like Karl Marx etc did as well. Meanwhile he cheers the idea of blowing up peaceful inhabited planets (and likewise weighs and measures the POWER required to do it), and the irony is clear-- as is the hypocrisy. Consider the "recruiting poster" from his own website:

If what you are saying about this is correct, Wong is a bigger hypocrite than I thought since he clearly has an essay as well as a fanfic that make out the Federation to be a communistic state. He cannot both point out that the Federation's free-market, then condem it for that, and later proclaim it communist, then condemn it for that.

Oh, the whole original idea behind his SDN site was to mirror propagandist styles of the Nazis (who were actually a form of left-wing socialists), which was not necessarily intended to be true, but was being pushed that way in order to gain new recuits. Sadly it appears to have worked too well. My personel theory is that Wong was attempting a "The Wave" style experiment, only he got seduced by the power, and never made any attempt to shut it down.
-Mike

[KirkSkyWalker]

Subject: United Federation of Planets vs Galacitic Empire

Not surprisingly, Mike Wong resembles Stalin and other communist despots in his pro-statist attitudes, i.e in claiming that it's the free-market proponents in the Federation, who are the oppressors-- just like Karl Marx etc did as well. Meanwhile he cheers the idea of blowing up peaceful inhabited planets (and likewise weighs and measures the POWER required to do it), and the irony is clear-- as is the hypocrisy. Consider the "recruiting poster" from his own website:

If what you are saying about this is correct, Wong is a bigger hypocrite than I thought since he clearly has an essay as well as a fanfic that make out the Federation to be a communistic state. He cannot both point out that the Federation's free-market, then condem it for that, and later proclaim it communist, then condemn it for that.

Oh, the whole original idea behind his SDN site was to mirror propagandist styles of the Nazis (who were actually a form of left-wing socialists), which was not necessarily intended to be true, but was being pushed that way in order to gain new recuits. Sadly it appears to have worked too well. My personel theory is that Wong was attempting a "The Wave" style experiment, only he got seduced by the power, and never made any attempt to shut it down.
-Mike

I got that idea myself, from the repeated “STRENGTH THROUGH UNITY” crap; however here it seems pretty clear that Wong is bragging about how great the Empire is, and how puny and pathetic the Federation is; that’s all one is allowed to talk about over on his site, unless you like being flame-bait.
As for the Federation being socialist, that’s maybe, sadly, more true under later revisions, but TOS definitely ran up some credits. But in “Mudd’s Women,” for example, Kirk tried to buy some dilithium crystals from the miners, but they refused to sell them except in exchange for wives; if the Federation were socialist, then Kirk would have just taken the crystals by force, forced them to turn over the crystals under pain of death etc. Clearly, the Federation respects private property and trade; and seriously, how can you have a communist regime with a ship named Enterprise?
I also don’t get where Wong gets his point about “mind-control;” the only mention of mind-control, in the non-canon “Star Trek: The Motion Picture” novel, where Roddenberry says that some people during the 21st century were controlled by government brain-implants, leading to “The bloody mind-control riots.”
If he means brainwashing, OTOH, that’s completely different, and refers to indoctrination to a philosophy. While this might be true of The Next Gerneration to some extent with their extreme liberalism, I don’t see it with Kirk.
However, the Empire is definitely liberal extremism to the nth power—just not pacifism iike Picard preached; so I don’t see where he has room to talk here either.

[Mike DiCenso]

I also don’t get where Wong gets his point about “mind-control;” the only mention of mind-control, in the non-canon “Star Trek: The Motion Picture” novel, where Roddenberry says that some people during the 21st century were controlled by government brain-implants, leading to “The bloody mind-control riots.”

If he means brainwashing, OTOH, that’s completely different, and refers to indoctrination to a philosophy. While this might be true of The Next Gerneration to some extent with their extreme liberalism, I don’t see it with Kirk.

Wong appears to have mixed in elements of brainwashing with mind control in there, in essence making his version of the UFP out of the Terran Federation from the British sci-fi TV series "Blake's 7". He probably figured no one would notice.

As for the whole socialist thing, that is something that was seen throughout TOS as well, though to a lesser extent until about around the fourth movie. But even in TNG and it's spin off series, there were considerable signs of capitalism and the owning of private property throughout the Federation itself, such as the Picard family farm, or the Sisko cajun restaurant, and the use of money, except on Earth. Hell, the Vulcans still use money as per "The Gift", and even maintain a merchant fleet as per "Unification, Part 1". Many other examples have been given in this thread and several recent others. So this whole idea of no capitalism or private enterprise in the Federation because it's a communist state is pure horse hockey.
-Mike

[KirkSkyWalker]

Wong appears to have mixed in elements of brainwashing with mind control in there, in essence making his version of the UFP out of the Terran Federation from the British sci-fi TV series "Blake's 7". He probably figured no one would notice.

If he wants to mix up facts because he can't handle the truth, then he doesn't need a website, he needs a shrink.

As for socialism however, is he claiming that the Empire isn't socialist? Let's remember that actual socialism murdered about 150 million people during the last century; that sounds like the Empire right there.

Meanwhile the Federation is simply populist; I just don't see any absence of free trade anywhere in the Federation. There might not be a lot of comparative private wealth and poverty, but that can be a good thing-- not necessarily a sign of socialism; but here I think we see Wong's elitist hypocrisy, as well as how he confuses communism with simple equality-- just like he confuses objective neighborhood-assessment by parenting-magazines, with White Supremacy, on his personal website, where he both brags about his ethnically-diverse hometown and his parents' superior social status-- like the typical limousine-liberal hypcrite who openly pities the poor by giving out handouts on everyone's nickel but his own, and doing everything to create "equality" by making everyone poor and miserable but himself (i.e. brags about living in an integrated city-- inside a mansion-fortress gated community); and then he shamelessly attributes this to his superior intelligence, which he also lauds as proof of his qualification to "lead" others-- by which he really means rob and rule in the finest tradition of aristocratic imperialism.

In this sense, Wong would call the federation "communist," simply on the grounds that it opposes feudal aristocracy ala Marx; however no one's methods of imposing "equality" come closer to Marx's than Wong's... along with for achieving it.
Here, his logic ranks consistently with his speeches about canon, which he likewise twists to arrive at the result he wants-- i.e. the oppposite of their actual meaning (while cursing a blue streak at anyone who objects).

In reality, like most liberal hypcorites, Wong wants poverty so that he'll have someone to whom to he can feel superior, taking credit for his superior social status through "hard work" and superior intelligence despite inheriting things, while accusing those who aren't poor (other than himself, and those who think like him) of being corrupt and dishonest (as well as stupid, contrast to his delusions of brilliance-- despite his glaring errors).

Stop me if this doesn't sound like Wong, because it appears to follow in line with his rabid jealousy and hatred of anyone who also doesn't agree with him about anything else, either.
Overall, it's a blazing example of pathological narcissism-- as well Napoleonic syndrome.In truth, I kinda feel sorry for the little guy; he really doth protest too much.

[Praeothmin]

And while I enjoy your little "conversation", KirkSkywalker, the Wong bashing seems a bit too much.
There isn't anything that was said here that has never been said before.
Do we really need to talk about him?

[Mike DiCenso]

I have to step in and disagree somewhat. While the conversation has taken a turn that would require it to be posted in another forum than Trek/Wars, he is bringing up a critical point that goes all the way back to Youngla's cut and pasting of Wong's anti-Federation diatribes at the begining of this and other threads of his.
-Mike

[Praeothmin]

What point?
His post about Wong is essentially:
"Wong says: Do as I say, not as I act"
And then demonstrates Wong acting as a hypocrite.
All this has been said over and over in the past.
I see nothing new here...
Just my opinion anyways... :)