Commentary on StarWarsStarTrek v. Admiral Breetai

[StarWarsStarTrek]

I have no desire to revisit a debate where my opponents gonna do nothing but make up stories..and come at me with non canon fan numbers
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Non canon fan numbers? You called it non canon fan math. Apparently, you think that math is some warsie invention, and that kinetic energy or the formula for density was also invented by Mike Wong.

Also, why are you accusing me of trolling and insulting you when you accused people of being cyber terrorists and said that all of my posts were biased and trolling? Why do you have such double standards.

Numbers don't lie, but people do.

Manipulating people by using proper math, but improper reasoning for said math isn't new nor is it particularly clever save to those ignorant of the subject matter. We aren't on about Wong's math formula. We're talking about the reason behind said formula.

Except that if he were to make that claim; and he did, that my calculations are off, he'd have to prove it. He has literally actively refused to prove his assertion. When asked to, his response it that it's irrelevant and even that "oh other people think it's wrong!" Seriously?

Are you guys even reading the debate? I post a calculation involving math and science principles that are quite absolute, and he says that they're invalid because they're inflated. When asked for proof, he literally refuses.

Me:

You think that my math is biased? Prove it. I gave my math. If you think it's biased and not objective, examine it line for line and reveal the inconsistencies. Otherwise, your accusation has no evidence or logic to back it up.

Him:

every one thinks your math is biased man even the fringe warsies..on SB think its biased

Seriously?

how about this..start going by consistent feats form the primary canon using nothing that can possibly used to inflate and aggrandize..simple feats..debate that way instead of parroting some other guy..and insulting my intelligence

That's right; he actually requested for simple feats, because he's incapable of reading and understanding anything that involves exponents or multiplication/division.

[Admiral Breetai]

I like how you accuse me of not knowing math...when that's not the reason why I'm outright rejecting all of your stuff

that's also flaming

[Admiral Breetai]

in any case you never ever answered my question which is a testament to your habitual need to dodge...and hide..

regarding the EU and your denying what GL has said about it as per quotes picard and Ds have provided

what if Lucas came out and said "i honestly feel the Galactic Empire couldn't hope to beat the UFP much less the bigger fish in fiction" "that a single GCS could take out six ISD's" or something like that..yet Chee contradicts this and keeps shilling out the cash cow that is the EU

my question is then would you accept the main mans word on the matter or continue to fanatically cling the way you have

[Mike DiCenso]

Breetai, while it is true that SWST's assumptions are faulty given that many people here, including myself, have pointed out what those flaws are, it is up to you to make sure that you also point out how SWST's assumptions are faulty and why. Otherwise he/she/it does have a legitimate grievance here.
-Mike

[Admiral Breetai]

Breetai, while it is true that SWST's assumptions are faulty given that many people here, including myself, have pointed out what those flaws are, it is up to you to make sure that you also point out how SWST's assumptions are faulty and why. Otherwise he/she/it does have a legitimate grievance here.
-Mike

the problem is he is not providing anything official merely his interpretations on what's official they have no validity then anything else hence why I'm only accepting feats from the films..not his take on it..I'm taking an extremely black and white approach to this because most of this debates seem to become "a math off" as opposed to actually debating the capabilities of the two universes..I'd rather discuss what happens on panel as it where then what some one thinks happened and I don't think theres anything officially against such a stance, rules wise or anything esle accepting calcs is a courtesy refuting them with match..is a choice neither of which I feel is an efficient way to settle affairs with a poster on the level SWST not after the level of arrogance and elitist hostility he's leveled against me

and SWST has shown me nothing that leads me to believe his ability to calc trek or wars..is remotely objective..so I'd much rather go by feats

[Praeothmin]

How do you quantify feats if you don't calc'em?

[Admiral Breetai]

How do you quantify feats if you don't calc'em?

the example i always use comes from some one trying to explain that to a poster from SB on rumbles and he got a little mad but it was basically superman vs gladiator and they where arguing "with out cals how do you know that Gladz is stronger then supes when they've both busted up celestial bodies" his reply was ''da one who broke da biggur rock" LOL'd pretty hard but it remains a decent answer "the one with the better feats wins" based off what you can see to be superior consistently -may not be the most scientific way but the discussion shifts from who's analysis is correct to "is this consistent or not..is this better then the other sides feats" etc etc

essentially all I'm asking is the guy eliminate the controversy his math seems to create every thread by simply going by what happens on screen the larger scale destruction the superior range based off what you can see plainly and so on I think you guys refer to it as visuals...although I would stress consistency being important to both sides

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Your points do make sense, in that it might not be consistent. However, if you think that mine are not consistent, you need to prove your accusation. Otherwise, my point counts as true. That's how a debate works.

But look at your claims:

Me:

Appeal to popularity fallacy.

You:

hiding behind those terms only proves your a terrible debater

Ridiculous. Pointing out a logical fallacy is terrible?

And your hypocrisy shows, since you're hiding behind other people to try to disprove me.


You:

your math isn't canon and isn't objective..deal with it

Oh, ok. Surely you have proof for this claim, right?

Your next line:

I don't have to prove anything it's unusable

Oh...my...this is ridiculous. "I don't have to prove anything" = instantly invalid in a formal debate. If you were in a debate class, you would lost long ago. The fact is, you made a claim, and you have to prove it.

So I'll say it again:

PROVE that my calculations are biased and wrong. PROVE it. It's a debate. A debate. You have to prove everything you claim, because that's how a debate works.

If you can't prove it or at least back it up, then your claim is about as valid as me saying that the moon is made out of cheese.

[Admiral Breetai]

Your points do make sense, in that it might not be consistent. However, if you think that mine are not consistent, you need to prove your accusation. Otherwise, my point counts as true. That's how a debate works.]

no because your entire basis for this thread is simply to have a hissy fit that I dislike your agenda ridden posts...I mean seriously

"breetai dislikes me therefor I will debate him" there is nothing legit about your threads or attempts..and your challenge to darkstar was merely you trying to be the big man on campus and frankly I have no idea why he's even bothering if I was in his place you wouldn't be given the time of day

you have shown no objectivity no willingness to listen to the other side you've shown a strong desire to win to the extent of setting the terms in a debate you have no basis too..both of your threads aren't debate threads they are flat out ambushes to try and make yourself look cool in the eyes of what ever of your pals on that other site lurk here..and frankly my ability to tolerate that type of behavior does not exist

so long as you continue this way I will hound you relentlessly you will not get any formality out of me only the most basic and aggressive of tactics and I will continue to do this until you show me that your actually here for a constructive civil purpose as opposed to declaring what you view to be right and cowardly running from anything that challenges it...then hurling fits when called out on it

case in point I never accepted your challenge..but here you go..like as if you have something to prove

Ridiculous. Pointing out a logical fallacy is terrible?

yes it is it is using those terms is the mark of a typical Sd/net fanatic DOW you people throw everything and the kitchen sink at the opposition to avoid actually arguing and it's a cop out and beyond contemptible

And your hypocrisy shows, since you're hiding behind other people to try to disprove me.

perhaps I am in need of repeating myself so that you will understand..calculations and applying science to friggen fantasy especially one in which green decrepit midgets fight hobbled deformed old people in throne rooms in superhuman battles where they toss junk with they're minds and toss lighting out of they're hands...where magical germs give people super powers and knock slaves up and produce psychotic emo jesus babies..is the single most implausible and incredible thing I have ever heard and the idea that your offended when some one refuses to take seriously your attempt to apply math and scientific standards to it you react by calling them stupid is only hilarious and suggests some type of problem

in short..the premises is ridiculous and your a star wars fanboy..so leave your math at home *it will not be acknowledge by me..when ever you post it up*

conversely you don't see me offering up my own math because I don't expect you to waste your time on a premises so irrational as quantifying a universe that seems to fly in the face of all we understand

Oh, ok. Surely you have proof for this claim, right?

did you just ask me to prove your mathematics isn't canon?

Oh...my...this is ridiculous. "I don't have to prove anything" = instantly invalid in a formal debate. If you were in a debate class, you would lost long ago. The fact is, you made a claim, and you have to prove it.

if we where in a debate class the teacher would of flunked you or remanded you to some type of other program..type class for not being capable of actually grasping a basic point you have continued to miss
[

So I'll say it again:

PROVE that my calculations are biased and wrong. PROVE it. It's a debate. A debate. You have to prove everything you claim, because that's how a debate works.

debate? you aren't interested in debating you have never been interested in debating you didn't make that thread to debate me...you stacked the deck spouted off nonsense..and from day 1 have attempted to ensure everything is in your hands..to ensure you win..you aren't interested in debating just brow beating us with your theories

when the actual debating starts I'll take you seriously

If you can't prove it or at least back it up, then your claim is about as valid as me saying that the moon is made out of cheese.

the problem is..your completely missing the point..and my claim is valid that your analysis is baseless and any attempt to apply real world science to fiction is silly and it isn't canon meaning I am under no obligation to entertain it

[Admiral Breetai]

you know whats sad..stumbling into this clueless and arrogant as you are you do show potential.and can stand your ground even if you don't know how to do it properly which is very very very important in a vs debate career .which is why I'm so harsh with you if this kind of poor conduct and bad attitude is beaten out of you early..your gonna turn out into a great one..but you cannot keep going on like this..it really is doing nothing positive for any one

whether you choose to believe this post or not or even think my appraisal worth anything I'd thought I'd toss it out there

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Since you cannot prove anything that you just posted and refuse to prove anything that you just posted, it is all by default invalid due to burden of proof.

You lose.

Seriously. Nothing that you posted in your post; which, BTW, had horrible grammar and sentence structure filled with run on sentences and "..."'s, had even one shred of evidence backing it up. None of it actually had anything to do with the topic.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

no because your entire basis for this thread is simply to have a hissy fit that I dislike your agenda ridden posts...I mean seriously

"breetai dislikes me therefor I will debate him" there is nothing legit about your threads or attempts..and your challenge to darkstar was merely you trying to be the big man on campus and frankly I have no idea why he's even bothering if I was in his place you wouldn't be given the time of day

you have shown no objectivity no willingness to listen to the other side you've shown a strong desire to win to the extent of setting the terms in a debate you have no basis too..both of your threads aren't debate threads they are flat out ambushes to try and make yourself look cool in the eyes of what ever of your pals on that other site lurk here..and frankly my ability to tolerate that type of behavior does not exist

so long as you continue this way I will hound you relentlessly you will not get any formality out of me only the most basic and aggressive of tactics and I will continue to do this until you show me that your actually here for a constructive civil purpose as opposed to declaring what you view to be right and cowardly running from anything that challenges it...then hurling fits when called out on it

case in point I never accepted your challenge..but here you go..like as if you have something to prove

None of this has anything to do with what I said. Stop insulting me and start actually debating.

Ridiculous. Pointing out a logical fallacy is terrible?

yes it is it is using those terms is the mark of a typical Sd/net fanatic DOW you people throw everything and the kitchen sink at the opposition to avoid actually arguing and it's a cop out and beyond contemptible

No, pointing out logical fallacy is not avoiding arguing, it's an argument into itself. It's the reason why they exist. Gosh.

And your hypocrisy shows, since you're hiding behind other people to try to disprove me.

perhaps I am in need of repeating myself so that you will understand..calculations and applying science to friggen fantasy especially one in which green decrepit midgets fight hobbled deformed old people in throne rooms in superhuman battles where they toss junk with they're minds and toss lighting out of they're hands...where magical germs give people super powers and knock slaves up and produce psychotic emo jesus babies..is the single most implausible and incredible thing I have ever heard and the idea that your offended when some one refuses to take seriously your attempt to apply math and scientific standards to it you react by calling them stupid is only hilarious and suggests some type of problem

in short..the premises is ridiculous and your a star wars fanboy..so leave your math at home *it will not be acknowledge by me..when ever you post it up*

conversely you don't see me offering up my own math because I don't expect you to waste your time on a premises so irrational as quantifying a universe that seems to fly in the face of all we understand

So I'm bad because I decide to use a Scientific approach to the debate? Why does everybody have to accept your simplistic way of debating? Does everybody have to debate like you?

Is darkstar a Star Trek fanboy because he uses calcs? Is Jedi Master Spock?

Oh, ok. Surely you have proof for this claim, right?

did you just ask me to prove your mathematics isn't canon?

No, I asked your to prove that it's biased. Have fun doing that.

Oh...my...this is ridiculous. "I don't have to prove anything" = instantly invalid in a formal debate. If you were in a debate class, you would lost long ago. The fact is, you made a claim, and you have to prove it.

if we where in a debate class the teacher would of flunked you or remanded you to some type of other program..type class for not being capable of actually grasping a basic point you have continued to miss

The concept that you refuse to accept math and Science in a debate, even though this site is specifically a technical based site? You don't decide the rules here.

[

So I'll say it again:

PROVE that my calculations are biased and wrong. PROVE it. It's a debate. A debate. You have to prove everything you claim, because that's how a debate works.

debate? you aren't interested in debating you have never been interested in debating you didn't make that thread to debate me...you stacked the deck spouted off nonsense..and from day 1 have attempted to ensure everything is in your hands..to ensure you win..you aren't interested in debating just brow beating us with your theories

when the actual debating starts I'll take you seriously

Nitpicking. None of this has anything to do with the debate/whatever you want to call it.

If you can't prove it or at least back it up, then your claim is about as valid as me saying that the moon is made out of cheese.

the problem is..your completely missing the point..and my claim is valid that your analysis is baseless and any attempt to apply real world science to fiction is silly and it isn't canon meaning I am under no obligation to entertain it

Is silly? So darkstar and Jedi Master Spock are silly? Why don't you quit this forum then and go go movie lounge forums or some other bullshit site? Or go to a creationist site where they don't allow Science.

[Picard]

@AdmiralBreetai Both ST and SW are presumed to use real world physics, and indeed, they are required to. Do you know how much universe will change if you try to change only one law of physics? No, attempting to apply real world science to world of fiction is not baseless except when proven otherwise, and even then only in that particular instance. Lord of the Rings have lot of magic and fantasy elements. Are we required to ignore all of laws of physics when thinking about it? No, it would just be silly. And it is fantasy world, not science fiction.

[Admiral Breetai]

Since you cannot prove anything that you just posted and refuse to prove anything that you just posted, it is all by default invalid due to burden of proof.

are unable to grasp even the most basic of concepts?

]You lose.

aint this a bannable offense?

Seriously. Nothing that you posted in your post; which, BTW, had horrible grammar and sentence structure filled with run on sentences and "..."'s, had even one shred of evidence backing it up. None of it actually had anything to do with the topic.

this be flaming

[Admiral Breetai]

The concept that you refuse to accept math and Science in a debate, even though this site is specifically a technical based site? You don't decide the rules here.

no I refuse to accept numbers posted by fans..and official numbers that contradict the movies..as fan numbers have no canon basis..and the other namely the ICS is a biased heap of nonsense..that does not match with the primary canon

as for the rules..you don't you issued the challenge for no other reason then absolute pettiness and immaturity I will do as i like..since this debate and your intentions are in no way serious

Nitpicking. None of this has anything to do with the debate/whatever you want to call it.

your conduct has everything to do with why this entire situation is a joke

Is silly? So darkstar and Jedi Master Spock are silly? Why don't you quit this forum then and go go movie lounge forums or some other bullshit site? Or go to a creationist site where they don't allow Science.

I have never seen Darkstar or JMS..shove their calcs down a persons throat and pass them off as official...nor have I seen them insult their intelligence when they point out that while their calcs are informative and help us better understand feats..they aren't official

@AdmiralBreetai Both ST and SW are presumed to use real world physics, and indeed, they are required to. Do you know how much universe will change if you try to change only one law of physics? No, attempting to apply real world science to world of fiction is not baseless except when proven otherwise, and even then only in that particular instance. Lord of the Rings have lot of magic and fantasy elements. Are we required to ignore all of laws of physics when thinking about it? No, it would just be silly. And it is fantasy world, not science fiction.

in many instances the laws of physics as we understand them are put into a blender then tossed into a ring with Mike Tyson fused with a super saiyan and conventional biology was put into a meat grinder then fed to a T rex..when anakin was conceived by germs and Wesley became a traveler

I'm advocating taking a more laid back approach to it..is all and demanding some one accept your stuff when its based on speculation and non primary canon? tsk tsk