For polite and reasoned discussion of Star Wars and/or Star Trek.
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KSW
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by KSW » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:46 am
Something I just noticed
"How long before you can make the jump?" Kenobi inquired easily, apparently unconcerned that at any second they all might cease to exist.
"We're still within the gravitational influence of Tatooine," came the
cool response. "It will be a few minutes yet before the navigation computer
can compensate and effect an accurate jump. I could override its
decision, but the hyperdrive would likely shred itself. That would give me a nice hold
full of scrap metal in addition to you four."
"A few minutes," Luke blurted, staring at the screens. "At the rate they're gaining..."
"Traveling through hyperspace isn't like dusting crops, boy. Ever tried calculating a hyperspace jump?" Luke had to shake his head. "It's no mean trick. Be nice if we rushed it and passed right through a star or some other friendly spatial phenom like a black hole. That would end our trip real quick."
So calculating the jump isn't what takes time, but rather doing it within the gravitational influence of a nearby planet, in order to
compensate.
And that can make a difference!
Likewise, even a weak gravitational influence like a Starfleet tractor-beam at very long range, can throw off the ship's course and cause bad things to happen.
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Praeothmin
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by Praeothmin » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:17 pm
MauriceWindows wrote:Likewise, even a weak gravitational influence like a Starfleet tractor-beam at very long range, can throw off the ship's course and cause bad things to happen.
And here you go again, stating things without evidence...
The quote you presented is talking about
the gravitational influence of a planetary body, not the weak tractor emitters from a starship...
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Picard
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by Picard » Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:45 pm
Gravitational influence is gravitational influence, source doesn't matter.
Unless, of course, tractor beam doesn't work via gravitons. But warp drive could, theoretically, be used to simulate mass.
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Praeothmin
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by Praeothmin » Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:15 pm
While I agree source doesn't matter, please remember that Interdictors blocked Hyperspace travel by creating mass shadows equivalent to those of planetary bodies, not low mass spaceships...
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Lucky
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by Lucky » Wed Mar 28, 2012 7:20 am
Praeothmin wrote:While I agree source doesn't matter, please remember that Interdictors blocked Hyperspace travel by creating mass shadows equivalent to those of planetary bodies, not low mass spaceships...
The quote provided is talking about entering Hyperspace. It means that any unaccounted for gravitational field can drastically throw off course and even destroy a ship as it enter hyperspace.
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Praeothmin
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by Praeothmin » Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:21 pm
The quote specifically states:
"We're still within the gravitational influence of Tatooine," came the
cool response. "It will be a few minutes yet before the navigation computer
can compensate and effect an accurate jump.
Last time I watched SW, Tattoine was a planet, so no, the quote does not support the assumption that
any unaccounted for gravitational field can drastically throw off course and even destroy a ship as it enter hyperspace.
...
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Picard
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by Picard » Wed Mar 28, 2012 2:30 pm
Praeothmin wrote:While I agree source doesn't matter, please remember that Interdictors blocked Hyperspace travel by creating mass shadows equivalent to those of planetary bodies, not low mass spaceships...
Who said anything about "low mass spaceships"? With Interdictors being non-canon material, that doesn't leave us with much. Do we know how large mass can starship's warp drive simulate?
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Praeothmin
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by Praeothmin » Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:35 pm
The quote still talks about a planet, so unless you provide evidence that a ST ship can simulate a planetary mass with their tractor beams...
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KSW
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by KSW » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:02 pm
Picard wrote:Gravitational influence is gravitational influence, source doesn't matter.
.
And tractor-beams are clearly much
stronger than a planet's gravity, particularly from a distance. That's why Han Solo wouldn't just break the Death Star's tractor beam by jumping to hyperspace.
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KSW
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by KSW » Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:03 pm
Lucky wrote:Praeothmin wrote:While I agree source doesn't matter, please remember that Interdictors blocked Hyperspace travel by creating mass shadows equivalent to those of planetary bodies, not low mass spaceships...
The quote provided is talking about entering Hyperspace. It means that any unaccounted for gravitational field can drastically throw off course and even destroy a ship as it enter hyperspace.
And that hyperspace jumps don't take very long to calculate otherwise.
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Lucky
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by Lucky » Thu Mar 29, 2012 5:48 am
Praeothmin wrote:The quote still talks about a planet, so unless you provide evidence that a ST ship can simulate a planetary mass with their tractor beams...
The quote is spoken when the Falcon is being chased by Star Destroyers as it leave Tatooine. That would imply Hyperdrives are very sensitive to gravity, and you don't even need 1g.
For a warp drive to work you need to warp space/time in a very notable way last time I checked, and gravity on a macro level was just the warping of space/time. Just having a warp field near the ship trying to enter hyperspace would be a hazard.
A navigational deflector can create a wormhole by directly manipulating gravitons. That means navigational deflectors being turned on could be a major hazard to someone trying to enter hyperspace near by.
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KSW
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by KSW » Thu Mar 29, 2012 11:59 am
Lucky wrote:Praeothmin wrote:The quote still talks about a planet, so unless you provide evidence that a ST ship can simulate a planetary mass with their tractor beams...
The quote is spoken when the Falcon is being chased by Star Destroyers as it leave Tatooine. That would imply Hyperdrives are very sensitive to gravity, and you don't even need 1g.
For a warp drive to work you need to warp space/time in a very notable way last time I checked, and gravity on a macro level was just the warping of space/time. Just having a warp field near the ship trying to enter hyperspace would be a hazard.
A navigational deflector can create a wormhole by directly manipulating gravitons. That means navigational deflectors being turned on could be a major hazard to someone trying to enter hyperspace near by.
Navigational deflectors aren't as powerful as tactical-deflectors, either.
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Praeothmin
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by Praeothmin » Thu Mar 29, 2012 12:45 pm
The quote is spoken when the Falcon is being chased by Star Destroyers as it leave Tatooine. That would imply Hyperdrives are very sensitive to gravity, and you don't even need 1g.
The quote is spoken when the Falcon is
still within Tattoine's gravity well, and in order to go in Hyperspace,
a separate entity from normal space, you need to calculate things very precisely in order
not to come out too close to a dangerous spacial phenomena, or even run into a spacial object's mass shadow...
The only thing I see here is the limited SW sensors having trouble rapidly accounting for a planet's gravity well and its influence on the necessary path calculations for when the ship is in Hyperspace, cut off from any sensor readings...
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KSW
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by KSW » Fri Mar 30, 2012 6:44 pm
Praeothmin wrote:The quote is spoken when the Falcon is being chased by Star Destroyers as it leave Tatooine. That would imply Hyperdrives are very sensitive to gravity, and you don't even need 1g.
The quote is spoken when the Falcon is
still within Tattoine's gravity well, and in order to go in Hyperspace,
a separate entity from normal space, you need to calculate things very precisely in order
not to come out too close to a dangerous spacial phenomena, or even run into a spacial object's mass shadow...
The only thing I see here is the limited SW sensors having trouble rapidly accounting for a planet's gravity well and its influence on the necessary path calculations for when the ship is in Hyperspace, cut off from any sensor readings...
And a tractor-beam bends space
more than a planet's gravity-well, at least for the affected area. It's like having an oil-well vs. the Grand Canyon, i.e. it's not as wide but you fall a helluva lot further if you step in.
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Praeothmin
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by Praeothmin » Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:05 pm
MauriceWindows wrote:And a tractor-beam bends space more than a planet's gravity-well, at least for the affected area. It's like having an oil-well vs. the Grand Canyon, i.e. it's not as wide but you fall a helluva lot further if you step in.
And of course, you have
evidence of this, right?