Does The Borg actually want to assimilate the UFP?

[Lucky]

The Borg could logically assimalate the United Federation of Planets any time it choses to simply by sending a hand full of cubes, but it chooses not to. The question is why? Below are some theories as to why the Borg does not seriously try to assimilate the UFP.

(1) Temporal Paradoxes
We know that in Star Trek: First Contact the Borg go back in time to assimilate pre-warp Earth, but they already know they will fail from the information they gained from the two surviving drones Archer had to deal with, 7of9's parents, and data taken from Federation computers. So it appears The Borg might be taking part in a predestined paradox on a conscious level, but each knew time travel event from the future means a new loop that must be completed, and we know those loops reach at least thousands of years beyond the 24th century.

(2) Nigh Omnipotent Beings
The area the United Federation of Planets is in seems to have a glut of entities who could seemingly destroy The Borg with a stray thought. A simple scan of a Federation ship like the Enterprise-D would show this, and it is likely the Borg know of the Q. Risking the anger of a being like Kevin Uxbridge or a Q may be far more trouble then the Federation and other local powers are worth in the eyes of The Borg.

(3) The UFP and similar local powers are still progressing
The United Federation of Planets, The Romulan Empire, and The Klingon Empire are all creating new technologies, and improving old ones at a pace that seems to exceed most other power seen in Star Trek. The Borg may be waiting for them to reach a plateau where technological progression slows to a stop. This point may never come, or they may wait too long, but a properly aged peace of beef is very tasty.

(4) Alpha Quadrant Races Are Still Mutating, and Evolving
Throughout Star Trek we see a large number of humans and other races suddenly gain powers. The Borg may be waiting for the Alpha Quadrant races to reach what the Borg think is an evolutionary plateau. This point may never come, or they may wait too long, but a properly aged peace of beef is very tasty.

(5) The Borg are from Section 31(Pure Speculation)
The Borg may be dependents of the nanites Wesley Crusher created on a mission for S31 to ensure the Federation's survival.

(6) Uniqueness
In all of Star Trek the only group similar to the United Federation of Planets is The Borg. The borg may want to see what will happen if it lets the UFP grow, or it may not be sure how to go about assimilating the UFP.

[2046]

I applaud your effort to try to make sense of this issue, but it's going to be troublesome at best.

Everyone recognizes that if the Borg came in force and didn't do things piecemeal (to borrow from Guinan), the Federation would be doomed.

Put simply, we never got an adequate explanation for their self-nerfing in regards to the Federation or even Voyager, other than ill-defined fascination with Picard, Janeway, and Seven that was almost invariably poorly-executed.

If you're the Queen, the cyborg-girl-who-has-everything, why would you let your favorite human pet go, especially when you love it even when it bites you?

Even factoring in Q's involvement as a possible cause for Borg caution, and even factoring in the resistance quotient for humanity being really high in Borg eyes thanks to various events (e.g. the BoBW Data Hack, knowledge of Picard, et cetera), and even factoring in the silly "fascination with humanity" idea, it just makes little sense that the Borg, if truly interested in assimilation, wouldn't have just swarmed in with a hundred cubes and had a wankfest.

[Mike DiCenso]

Logistics is another possible answer. Humanity is too far away to send more than a few ships at a time. The first cube is one that happened to be relatively near that area of space. This explains why the transwarp hub was under construction in "Endgame", as it would have allowed hundreds, or even thousands of Borg vessels to attack the Alpha and Beta quadrants in appropriate force, rather than coming at it piecemeal.

With species in the Delta quadrant, like Arturis' from "Hope and Fear" where after the Borg had repelled the Species 8472 incursion, they went with hundreds of cubeships against his people and assimilated them. But Arturis' people were practically "next door neighbors" to the Borg.

So effectively they were making probing, long-distance attacks. If they happened to succeed, great. Now there's a foothold in that area of space, but if they fail, there will be another time, and in the meantime, the infrastructure that allows very fast transwarp conduit travel will be constructed.
-Mike

[Admiral Breetai]

one of the possibilities is that the federation seemed to have "ancient" races as members and the Borg feared an all out attack would cause said old farts to get to high tech stomping?

another possibility is they fear the Humans might actually find a way to exterminate the Borg or cripple them beyond repair. This or more less happens during End Game

[Mike DiCenso]

The first possiblity has already been covered in the the OP, the second makes no sense since the Borg would want to send as many ships as they can to completely and utterly stomp the Federation and it's allies as quickly as possible.
-Mike

[Picard]

Logistics is another possible answer. Humanity is too far away to send more than a few ships at a time. The first cube is one that happened to be relatively near that area of space. This explains why the transwarp hub was under construction in "Endgame", as it would have allowed hundreds, or even thousands of Borg vessels to attack the Alpha and Beta quadrants in appropriate force, rather than coming at it piecemeal.

True. While Borg don't have problem deploying dozens of cubes in their own territory, Federation is far away.

Also, first time they attacked, one cube was almost enough. It was only after "First Contact" that Borg concluded "one cube at a time" may not be enough to assimilate Federation, since that one was stopped by fleet, not by one-shot wonder weapon.

[Admiral Breetai]

The Voth also run wild unopposed in Borg suburbs and yet they do nothing to stop them

[Lucky]

Everyone recognizes that if the Borg came in force and didn't do things piecemeal (to borrow from Guinan), the Federation would be doomed.

That just means the Borg does not want to.

Put simply, we never got an adequate explanation for their self-nerfing in regards to the Federation or even Voyager, other than ill-defined fascination with Picard, Janeway, and Seven that was almost invariably poorly-executed.

Voyager is just a single ship with technologies and life forms the Borg already had samples of. There was no reason for the Borg to really care about it.

The Borg is not actually trying to assimilate planets in the Alpha and Beta quadrant explains a lot. That means that there is something in the Alpha/Beta quadrants that interests the Borg that it can not get through assimilating The Borg may also lie about it's true goals.

If you're the Queen, the cyborg-girl-who-has-everything, why would you let your favorite human pet go, especially when you love it even when it bites you?

The Queen is just a mouth peace for the Borg designed to be disturbing to the Federation. It's like what you talk to at the drive-through lane at a fast food place, and explained in BOBW as i recall when it used Picard that way.

Even factoring in Q's involvement as a possible cause for Borg caution, and even factoring in the resistance quotient for humanity being really high in Borg eyes thanks to various events (e.g. the BoBW Data Hack, knowledge of Picard, et cetera), and even factoring in the silly "fascination with humanity" idea, it just makes little sense that the Borg, if truly interested in assimilation, wouldn't have just swarmed in with a hundred cubes and had a wankfest.

There are a lot more N.R.O.B. that the Federation deals with the just the Q. They like the Federation in many cases, and or would not be happy with the Borg. As I stated the borg would know this simply from scanning the E-D's computer.

This was talked about in the OP
_____
The Borg has never had much interest in humans, or any one Alpha or Beta quadrant race. It seems interested in the United Federation of Planets, but the UFP is not a single race. Humans might have played an important role in it's creation, but after that humans are just part of the UFP.

This was actual talked about in the OP

[Lucky]

one of the possibilities is that the federation seemed to have "ancient" races as members and the Borg feared an all out attack would cause said old farts to get to high tech stomping?

This was talked about in the OP. There are a lot of NROB that live in the Alpha and Beta quadrants.

another possibility is they fear the Humans might actually find a way to exterminate the Borg or cripple them beyond repair. This or more less happens during End Game

The Borg are interesting in the United Federation of Planets for some reason, but humans are just a small part of thr whole of the Federation.

[Lucky]

After writing up the OP I remembered this Blog article.

A civilization knows that the Borg will assimilate them eventually. They know that the Borg's goal is to add their biological and technological distinctiveness to the Borg. They come up with a plan. Assemble a ship containing the latest technology. Put on that ship their most advanced computer containing all the collected knowledge they are able to including a complete digital version of their genetic data. Fill the ship with biological samples (blood samples, skin samples, etc..) of all species with in the civilization including a large collection of plant and animal life and make sure that the genetic material is from multiple different beings so that it contains a diverse and more accurate sampling of the genetics. Then send the ship to the Borg.

Would the Borg leave the civilization alone? The Borg were given exactly what they wanted the collected knowledge of the species as well as the biological data of the species which the Borg could be incorporated into the Borg.

In many ways it seems like the UFP has done what the article suggests.

[2046]

Everyone recognizes that if the Borg came in force and didn't do things piecemeal (to borrow from Guinan), the Federation would be doomed.

That just means the Borg does not want to.

Only for certain values of "want". One can have capability and desire but the act remains undone because of a lack of opportunity, distraction of higher-priority events, or simply an overabundance of patience.

Put simply, we never got an adequate explanation for their self-nerfing in regards to the Federation or even Voyager, other than ill-defined fascination with Picard, Janeway, and Seven that was almost invariably poorly-executed.

Voyager is just a single ship with technologies and life forms the Borg already had samples of. There was no reason for the Borg to really care about it.

Um, no. The Borg already knew of the Federation and its technology, but were very interested in the Enterprise-D showing up on their frontier. Remember, they'd already assimilated multiple Starfleet ships and installations even at this point.

To then have Voyager rolling up in their 'hood ought to have been very intriguing by default. But again, when Voyager arrived the Borg had 8,472 higher-priority items on their list.

[/quote]The Borg is not actually trying to assimilate planets in the Alpha and Beta quadrant explains a lot. That means that there is something in the Alpha/Beta quadrants that interests the Borg that it can not get through assimilating The Borg may also lie about it's true goals.[/quote]

What?

If you're the Queen, the cyborg-girl-who-has-everything, why would you let your favorite human pet go, especially when you love it even when it bites you?

The Queen is just a mouth peace for the Borg designed to be disturbing to the Federation.

Huh?

It's like what you talk to at the drive-through lane at a fast food place, and explained in BOBW as i recall when it used Picard that way.

Locutus was a facilitator . . . a rather unusual Borg tactic when compared to their usual unstoppable juggernaut approach as is commonly imagined, again based on Guinan's statement.

Come to think of it, it's rather unfortunate that Voyager made reference (and appearance) of a swarm of cubes, or in the case of Species 10026 (IIRC) showing a good assimilation event, because beyond that we've never actually seen an assimilation swarm. Without that, we could actually hypothesize that the Borg really don't come with brute force in that way (losing their own drones and frequently destroying potential drones), but that instead they prefer to try to be at least a little more suave.

N.R.O.B.

What?

that the Federation deals with the just the Q. They like the Federation in many cases, and or would not be happy with the Borg. As I stated the borg would know this simply from scanning the E-D's computer.

This was talked about in the OP

Perhaps I wasn't talking about the same thing you want to talk about.

The Borg has never had much interest in humans, or any one Alpha or Beta quadrant race.

What?

It seems interested in the United Federation of Planets, but the UFP is not a single race. Humans might have played an important role in it's creation, but after that humans are just part of the UFP.

This was actual talked about in the OP

Perhaps, but not with my skill. Seriously, why post a mew topic on a discussion board if the first response is dismissed with multiple statements of "oh, we've been over that already".

In any case, I see no evidence of a UFP-wide interest by the Borg. If anything, they seem far more interested in humans than, say, Vulcans. Remember, after all, that the Queen was all about some human assimilation when planning the airborne Borg nanoprobe virus thingy.

[sonofccn]

Do the Borg want to assimulate the UFP? Lock stock and barrel? I'd say no. As others have stated they Borg could send dozens, hundreds of Borg cubes which the total naval strenght of Starfleet would be all but impotent against. But why would they? The Federation is nothing compared to the Borg, at best its a long term problem, and the resources expended taking the whole thing by sheer force of arms could be better expended in "local" matters. Instead, in my opinon, the Borg are attempting to destroy the Federation with the least amount of "investment", by assimulating Earth which nets them a foothold in the Alpha quadrent to expand operations, in the BOBW era Borg drives were apparently slower than they later obtained making it more important to have assets Alpha side, and removes the lynchpin which binds the UFP togather. With it gone the other races will began to bicker amongst themselves once again as they did in the 22nd century or will scramble to unit behind a new central leader in either event hampering thier abilities and prospects while granting the Borg more time to deal with the "UFP problem".

After writing up the OP I remembered this Blog article.

Well if all the Borg truly wanted was raw data and genetic code they'd have no need to assimulate or carve up worlds like turkeys. Just a few little nicks and a computer download would suffice. While fancy tech or unique biology may bump you up the list in the end I think we're all just meat to be industrilized to the Collective's whim.

2) Nigh Omnipotent Beings

I'm not following, if the Borg were afraid of ROBs why persist in attacking the Federation? Assimulating Earth your still playing russian roulette about not enraging an Omnipotent being.

[Admiral Breetai]

The Queen is just a mouth peace for the Borg designed to be disturbing to the Federation. It's like what you talk to at the drive-through lane at a fast food place, and explained in BOBW as i recall when it used Picard that way.

no she was very much her own person or women..assuming there was more than one and did have a great deal of control

her fetish for Picard...her disturbing molesty squick for seven

The Borg has never had much interest in humans, or any one Alpha or Beta quadrant race. It seems interested in the United Federation of Planets, but the UFP is not a single race. Humans might have played an important role in it's creation, but after that humans are just part of the UFP.

This was actual talked about in the OP

and this requires that you functionally ignore word of god that humanity is the unifying force, that humanity is special that humanity will surpass the Q that humanity was a such a threat to their existence they needed to try and retcon punch it away

The Borg are interesting in the United Federation of Planets for some reason, but humans are just a small part of thr whole of the Federation.

without homo sapiens the UFP would not exist at all this has been shown as absolute fact multiple times

In any case, I see no evidence of a UFP-wide interest by the Borg. If anything, they seem far more interested in humans than, say, Vulcans. Remember, after all, that the Queen was all about some human assimilation when planning the airborne Borg nanoprobe virus thingy.

you hit the nail on the head there it requires one to dismiss and ignore canon to say "they aren't interested in humanity" when they seem to consider it, either the greatest threat to their existence or a massive curiosity

Queens have even had disturbing preferences for humans

[KSW]

I applaud your effort to try to make sense of this issue, but it's going to be troublesome at best.

Everyone recognizes that if the Borg came in force and didn't do things piecemeal (to borrow from Guinan), the Federation would be doomed.

Put simply, we never got an adequate explanation for their self-nerfing in regards to the Federation or even Voyager, other than ill-defined fascination with Picard, Janeway, and Seven that was almost invariably poorly-executed.

If you're the Queen, the cyborg-girl-who-has-everything, why would you let your favorite human pet go, especially when you love it even when it bites you?

Even factoring in Q's involvement as a possible cause for Borg caution, and even factoring in the resistance quotient for humanity being really high in Borg eyes thanks to various events (e.g. the BoBW Data Hack, knowledge of Picard, et cetera), and even factoring in the silly "fascination with humanity" idea, it just makes little sense that the Borg, if truly interested in assimilation, wouldn't have just swarmed in with a hundred cubes and had a wankfest.

The Borg assumed that a single cube could do it-- and they were right, except for Picard's inside-information. They were busy assimilating all races, not just humans.
That's what they did: rather than integrate with others, they assimilated and conquered.
And when a cube failed, they'd taken to time-travelling.
This obviously didn't work in BobW, because they were put to sleep and magically self-destructed because Picard was their nexus, so apparently when that failed, the Queen took a royal cube to do it herself.

[Mr. Oragahn]

one of the possibilities is that the federation seemed to have "ancient" races as members and the Borg feared an all out attack would cause said old farts to get to high tech stomping?

And would tolerate a few incursions and massacres, until they'd think the Borg need a slap on the hand?
That's not really UFPish at all.

another possibility is they fear the Humans might actually find a way to exterminate the Borg or cripple them beyond repair. This or more less happens during End Game

They're certainly letting the humans maximizing such chances by not assimilating them.

As for most of Lucky's points', it's been clear that they don't care about UFP tech. They don't seem to consider the UFP that important. It's possible the Borg focused on something much more important, even requiring plenty of Cubes.
Who knows? Like, say, creatures capable of making simple stars produce supernovas that threaten several star systems for example? :)
Creatures that may literally nova stars as a kickstart reaction to produce entire geysers of omega particles which in return amplify the supernova. Dunno, just speculating.