Starfleet Jedi

In the ANH novelization, Han says "no ship can track another at lightspeed."
Clearly that's a limitation for SW ships, not Federation, which can fight and maneuver at warp. So in warp-combat, the Empire would literally never know what hit them!

The issue is proving that warp combat will happen, since the empire can not go to warp.


The far more logical conclusion is that warping around (mere light seconds) would be devastating to the empire.

Trinoya wrote:The issue is proving that warp combat will happen, since the empire can not go to warp.

Warp-combat doesn't require both ships going to warp. It just means that the attacking ship can attack while at warp.
Example: in "The Ultimate Computer," the Enterprise attacks at warp against other Starfleet ships that are doing sublight. (This is as opposed to warp-attacks by other ships like the Orion and Klingon-ships, to provide precedent of a Federation-ship doing it).

If you mean ST ships being able to track and hit hit SW ships in hyperspace, I'd say yes, since in the ANH novelization Han Solo says "We're almost ready to make the jump. It could get bad if we take a near-burst at the wrong moment."

And likewise, we know that ST sensors can track objects moving FTL.
As long as the weapons can catch the SW ship, they can destroy it.

The far more logical conclusion is that warping around (mere light seconds) would be devastating to the empire.

If the Starfleet ships simply stay at warp, then the Empire won't even be able to detect them. Their ships will simply begin blowing up before they can even raise shields.
And Starfleet ships can acquire multiple targets, so they should be able to hit multiple SW ships while at warp.

I've been at this for a very long time, I'm well aware of the nature of warp strafing. It still hasn't been definitively proven to exist, especially once the remastered TOS stuff came out.

Furthermore; there is no way to prove that you can attack a ship while it is inside of hyperspace, just that they can collide with gravity shadows of large stellar bodies.


Like I said, a much more viable tactic would be just using the warp drive to make it impossible to actually find you... a 10 light second jump away, followed by a 10 second light jump away, would have the enemy shooting at where you were, rather than where you are since they do not have FTL sensors.

Trinoya wrote:I've been at this for a very long time, I'm well aware of the nature of warp strafing. It still hasn't been definitively proven to exist, especially once the remastered TOS stuff came out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZWUa5OR3Ho

PROVEN.

At 0:47:

Chekov: "Deflector shield just came on. Speed increasing to WARP FOUR."
Sulu: "Phasers locking on lead ship sir. Power-levels at full strength."

I don't even think Mike Wong himself could be twisted enough to deny that.

And the digitally remastered version doesn't change the script, just the on-screen appearance.

Furthermore; there is no way to prove that you can attack a ship while it is inside of hyperspace, just that they can collide with gravity shadows of large stellar bodies.

If the phaser can go faster than the ship, it is deeper in hyperspace.
It's absurd to say that a SW ship becomes invulnerable to attack the second they go to hyperspace, it's a deus ex machina.

MauriceWindows wrote:If the phaser can go faster than the ship, it is deeper in hyperspace.
It's absurd to say that a SW ship becomes invulnerable to attack the second they go to hyperspace, it's a deus ex machina.

Prove that...
Prove that Phasers can go in Hyperspace, when TL bolts can't...

Praeothmin wrote:

MauriceWindows wrote:If the phaser can go faster than the ship, it is deeper in hyperspace.
It's absurd to say that a SW ship becomes invulnerable to attack the second they go to hyperspace, it's a deus ex machina.

Prove that...
Prove that Phasers can go in Hyperspace, when TL bolts can't...

Phasers are FTL, and therefore automatically in hyperspace to the degree of the beam-speed. TL bolts are STL, and therefore in flat-space.

In the film, Han Solo said that the Falcon would be destroyed if i passed through a star, or got too close to a supernova. Phasers have more power than either one, over the beam-width.

I this case, think of hyperspace like altitude in comparison to sea-travel. In order to travel faster, you have to get higher. Here, TL bolds would be like torpedoes, i.e. they couldn't hit an aircraft at any altitude above sea-level, while a missile could hit a plane if it could get high enough.
2046 has proven that hyperdrive isn't faster than 20,000C, and phasers are much faster than that.

MauriceWindows wrote:

Praeothmin wrote:

MauriceWindows wrote:If the phaser can go faster than the ship, it is deeper in hyperspace.
It's absurd to say that a SW ship becomes invulnerable to attack the second they go to hyperspace, it's a deus ex machina.

Prove that...
Prove that Phasers can go in Hyperspace, when TL bolts can't...

Phasers are FTL, and therefore automatically in hyperspace to the degree of the beam-speed. TL bolts are STL, and therefore in flat-space.

In the film, Han Solo said that the Falcon would be destroyed if i passed through a star, or got too close to a supernova. Phasers have more power than either one, over the beam-width.

I this case, think of hyperspace like altitude in comparison to sea-travel. In order to travel faster, you have to get higher. Here, TL bolds would be like torpedoes, i.e. they couldn't hit an aircraft at any altitude above sea-level, while a missile could hit a plane if it could get high enough.
2046 has proven that hyperdrive isn't faster than 20,000C, and phasers are much faster than that.

Prove it...
Prove that Hyperspace and Warp are the same thing...
It's not the first time we've tackled this issue, KSW, and you've yet to provide any evidence for that...
Just as you've yet to provide any evidence ST ships could detect ships in Hyperspace...

(sigh) Go troll someone else.

MauriceWindows wrote:(sigh) Go troll someone else.

So that's your evidence?
You fail at debate hard, KSW, as usual...
You calim that Phaser can go in Hyperspace, prove it...
You claim that ST ships can detect SW ships in Hyperspace, prove it...

See, there's this little concept called "burden of proof", and it's on you right now, and you're failing it very hard...

"PROVE that a plane flying at 200 feet can't fly over a 300-foot high wall... after I insult you."

That's really rich LOL

Pardon me for not talking down to a troll's level.

MauriceWindows wrote:"PROVE that a plane flying at 200 feet can't fly over a 300-foot high wall... after I insult you."

That's really rich LOL

Pardon me for not talking down to a troll's level.

In other words:
You can't!

Understood, KSW, you've basically gone back to bullshitting your way through a debate and running away from the counters like a little kid with his fingers in his ears yelling "LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" when someone asks for evidence of your bullshit...

Okay, KSW, you're on the ragged edge here again. As with SWST, f you can't support what you're saying, don't get pissy with people who ask you for evidence. Now you were doing really well there for a while, don't ruin it.

Praeo, ease up a bit, baiting people so they get pissed at you isn't cool.

Now, gentlemen, I trust this is all that will be needed here?
-Mike

Yeah, sorry, I know better... :(

I agree, they should put up or shut up.