Starfleet Jedi

Ok so for those who have not watched the episode "half a life" the E-D picks up a scientist from a world who's sun is old, with his help modifyng torps they can heat his home star up using existing "helium fusion enhancement" methods that have been around for a hundred years according to the episode.

They try it on a star simular to his own and the temperature increases to the required amount and initially stabilises, but then the reaction continues and the star superheats and they need to warp away just before it goes nova.

Important points.

1. The enhanced fusion method has been theorised for a century or so but no practical method of application was available.

2. The heating of the star was considered doable it was the stabilising at the correct temperature that was the big issue.

3. They scan the surrounding area for life and ships before starting.

4. It initially succeeds in stabilising at the required temperature but the stabilisation method fails and it starts to overheat.

5. Nobody is surprised when the star explodes although they are disappointed that it did not stabilise.

Now considering the circumstances do you think that this modification can be used as a nova causing weapon or if not be easily weaponised into one.

Here is the script if you wanna check it out:-

http://www.st-minutiae.com/academy/lite ... 29/196.txt


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What exactly is the point of focus for this thread? Is this to be an analysis of the event? To prove that the Federation has methods of making stars go "boom" other than using trilithium-protomatter weapons, like those in Star Trek Generations or Deep Space Nine's "By Inferno's Light"?

I mean, you could also point out, as others have before, that it is proof of technological feats like photon torpedoes accelerating to high relativisitic speeds, or low FTL warp speeds. Or you might also point out that the shields on the torpedoes held while burrowing deep inside the target star, ect.

Nowhereman10 wrote:What exactly is the point of focus for this thread? Is this to be an analysis of the event? To prove that the Federation has methods of making stars go "boom" other than using trilithium-protomatter weapons, like those in Star Trek Generations or Deep Space Nine's "By Inferno's Light"?

It is for a analysis of the event and then arguments for and against the capability of using this tech on other stars to cause novas.

Since the star wasn't "special", and the failed experiment was the stabilization of the core's temperatures at the desired one, and not the heating of the core, then yes, they should be able to do so...

Praeothmin wrote:Since the star wasn't "special", and the failed experiment was the stabilization of the core's temperatures at the desired one, and not the heating of the core, then yes, they should be able to do so...

The script and visuals show it is likely a red giant and they choose it because it is a close as possible match to the star wil a population around it, do you think this makes a difference and why or if not why not.

A Red Giant isn't a special star, it's a normal stage of life for main sequence stars.
Unless the script or show specifically state that the star was special, like "It has a different Quantum flux resolution matrix which makes this process possible", then no, it makes no difference at all.
If the process works on this Red Giant, it should logically work on all Red Giants...

Just like your DS and Alderaan example:
By that mindset, since we only saw Alderaan get destroyed by the DS, we have no reason to believe the DS can blow up any planet, like Earth for example...
Stupid excuse, at best...

this makes me wonder why the Dominion had the bashir changeling use a trilithium weapon..and not just do this it seems vastly cheaper less suicide happy and probably wouldn't get noticed since tweaking the photon torps seem to be pretty common

This makes the presumption that the Dominion had access to Dr. Timicin 's theories, or had developed it in parallel on their own. While possible, it is not necessarily true that the Dominion would have access to the technology.
-Mike

Mike DiCenso wrote:This makes the presumption that the Dominion had access to Dr. Timicin 's theories, or had developed it in parallel on their own. While possible, it is not necessarily true that the Dominion would have access to the technology.
-Mike

well they had infiltrated the AQ for a decent amount of time before the war so you'd think they'd have access to the research assuming it wasn't basic knowledge to any Fed level plus civilization..and it seemed allot cheaper

Admiral Breetai wrote:

Mike DiCenso wrote:This makes the presumption that the Dominion had access to Dr. Timicin 's theories, or had developed it in parallel on their own. While possible, it is not necessarily true that the Dominion would have access to the technology.
-Mike

well they had infiltrated the AQ for a decent amount of time before the war so you'd think they'd have access to the research assuming it wasn't basic knowledge to any Fed level plus civilization..and it seemed allot cheaper

Even if the changeling had the research it may not have been able to get what it needed. It would for example depend on what a doctor can more easily get his hands on, and who knows what the differences are between the various star popping methods.

Regarding Dominion issue...
1) Federation is pretty much science-oriented civilization... "science-happy", to put it that way, while Dominion is just "bullet happy" and exists far longer. So it is possible, and actually quite probable, that Federation has overall technological edge.
2) Why Dominion did not steal it? Well, Federation does not go on star-blowing carnage every time someone declares war on it. As such, research was probably classified or destroyed. Former is more likely, if anything, then due to Section 31. Also, Dominion does not need it... it already has its own star-busting bomb, and I see no reason why not to simply pack that bomb in standard torpedo casing and fire it at star. Reason why Changeling Bashir did not do that is simply secrecy. If he went around trying to buy photon torpedo casing, it is quite probable that he would have Starfleet Intelligence and/or Starfleet Investigations hanging around his neck in no time.

Picard wrote:Regarding Dominion issue...
1) Federation is pretty much science-oriented civilization... "science-happy", to put it that way, while Dominion is just "bullet happy" and exists far longer. So it is possible, and actually quite probable, that Federation has overall technological edge.

I wouldn't be so sure of that. The Dominion seemed to be portrayed as the UFP's equal or better from what I saw.

Picard wrote:2) Why Dominion did not steal it? Well, Federation does not go on star-blowing carnage every time someone declares war on it. As such, research was probably classified or destroyed. Former is more likely, if anything, then due to Section 31. Also, Dominion does not need it... it already has its own star-busting bomb, and I see no reason why not to simply pack that bomb in standard torpedo casing and fire it at star. Reason why Changeling Bashir did not do that is simply secrecy. If he went around trying to buy photon torpedo casing, it is quite probable that he would have Starfleet Intelligence and/or Starfleet Investigations hanging around his neck in no time.

The experiment in "Half a Life" was not to see if they could blow up a star, but to see if they could stop the reaction before the Star blew up.

Um no. They were looking into things like helium reaction enhancement, which implies strongly that the Kaelon star was going out with a wimper, not a bang.
-Mike

Admiral Breetai wrote:

Mike DiCenso wrote:This makes the presumption that the Dominion had access to Dr. Timicin 's theories, or had developed it in parallel on their own. While possible, it is not necessarily true that the Dominion would have access to the technology.
-Mike

well they had infiltrated the AQ for a decent amount of time before the war so you'd think they'd have access to the research assuming it wasn't basic knowledge to any Fed level plus civilization..and it seemed allot cheaper

The Dominion only had a few years at best to learn such things. It is possible, but as has already been pointed out, the research would likely have been kept classified to prevent someone else from perverting Timicin's research into a weapon.
-Mike

Picard wrote:Regarding Dominion issue...
1) Federation is pretty much science-oriented civilization... "science-happy", to put it that way, while Dominion is just "bullet happy" and exists far longer. So it is possible, and actually quite probable, that Federation has overall technological edge.
2) Why Dominion did not steal it? Well, Federation does not go on star-blowing carnage every time someone declares war on it. As such, research was probably classified or destroyed. Former is more likely, if anything, then due to Section 31. Also, Dominion does not need it... it already has its own star-busting bomb, and I see no reason why not to simply pack that bomb in standard torpedo casing and fire it at star. Reason why Changeling Bashir did not do that is simply secrecy. If he went around trying to buy photon torpedo casing, it is quite probable that he would have Starfleet Intelligence and/or Starfleet Investigations hanging around his neck in no time.

You are missing another vitial issue here: it takes not one, but several photon torpedo volleys acting in concert to produce the shockwave pattern necessary to start the helium fusion enhancement process.






The video here shows the process and how fast the torpedoes accelerated to reach the star from the E-D's position. This is one of the longest range showings for torpedoes since Star Trek: The Motion Picture. The torpedoes appearing to cover millions of kilometers.

Obtaining the torpedoes and then having a platform, either an appropriately sized spacecraft, or a station that can hold and launch them off would be far less efficent than what Changeling Bashir had planned in the first place. The process he'd rather have is Solian Toran's method, which only required a single slender little missile less than 2 meters tall.
-Mike