Starfleet Jedi

A baryon sweep removes baryon particles from a ships hull, but baryons are just normal matter.

What the bleep types of matter does the United Federation of Planets make their ships out of?

What are the implications of this?

Do you think the writer just goofed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baryon
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Baryon_sweep

Lucky wrote:A baryon sweep removes baryon particles from a ships hull, but baryons are just normal matter.

What the bleep types of matter does the United Federation of Planets make their ships out of?

What are the implications of this?

Do you think the writer just goofed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baryon
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Baryon_sweep

I found this:

Baryons are heavy subatomic particles, including protons and neutrons. As all compounds in the universe contain these particles, a process which eliminates baryons wouldn't leave much behind. We can assume that the baryon sweep refers to a specific type of heavy subatomic particle created by the subspace field of warp drive, rather than the entire family of them. A baryon sweep would thus indeed be dangerous to organic matter, for the reason stated above.

I suppose it is just another one of those things you chalk up to being a kind of contraction in regards to the process, we use them ourselves as items, effects and conditions become common place but to somebody from the past who was around when the processes ect were first used our contractions would seem inaccurate or even nonsensical.

Kor_Dahar_Master wrote:

Lucky wrote:A baryon sweep removes baryon particles from a ships hull, but baryons are just normal matter.

What the bleep types of matter does the United Federation of Planets make their ships out of?

What are the implications of this?

Do you think the writer just goofed?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baryon
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Baryon_sweep

I found this:

Baryons are heavy subatomic particles, including protons and neutrons. As all compounds in the universe contain these particles, a process which eliminates baryons wouldn't leave much behind. We can assume that the baryon sweep refers to a specific type of heavy subatomic particle created by the subspace field of warp drive, rather than the entire family of them. A baryon sweep would thus indeed be dangerous to organic matter, for the reason stated above.

I suppose it is just another one of those things you chalk up to being a kind of contraction in regards to the process, we use them ourselves as items, effects and conditions become common place but to somebody from the past who was around when the processes ect were first used our contractions would seem inaccurate or even nonsensical.

But it is theoretically possible that the fictional material the ships hulls are made of are not baryonic. We know almost nothing about Tritanium, and Duranium, and being exotic forms of matter may explain some of their quirks.

Baryons are heavy subatomic particles, including protons and neutrons. As all compounds in the universe contain these particles,

Lucky, how could Tritanium and Duranium not contain Baryons if all the compounds in the universe contain them?
Baryons are part of all atoms, so unless Tritanium and Duranium do not contain atoms, then they have them...

Baryons are heavy subatomic particles, including protons and neutrons. As all compounds in the universe contain these particles,

Praeothmin wrote:Lucky, how could Tritanium and Duranium not contain Baryons if all the compounds in the universe contain them?
Baryons are part of all atoms, so unless Tritanium and Duranium do not contain atoms, then they have them...

They wouldn't be baryons to begin with?

Why should we assume something like Tritanium, Duranium, and the other weird stuff in Star Trek isn't made out of something like mesons or something else? It's theorized that dark matter is primarily non-baryonic, and it is canon that they remove baryonic particles from the hulls of their ships.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_particles

And how would hulls made from mesons interact with the rest of the universe, or even living beings touching the ship's hulls?

Praeothmin wrote: And how would hulls made from mesons interact with the rest of the universe, or even living beings touching the ship's hulls?

Who knows, we have never found stable mesons to begin with in the real world.

The point is not all matter is baryonic, and Star Fleet makes a point to remove baryons from the hull every so often.

It may explain some of the odd properties of the material we see.

Nothing I read on Mesons and Baryons makes me believe it can be even remotely possible...

Praeothmin wrote: Nothing I read on Mesons and Baryons makes me believe it can be even remotely possible...

One way or another you have to come up with some form of fictional matter that is stable.

Why the focus on mesons?

Well, you brought it up as a possible alternative, so I guess I stuck with it...

and the other weird stuff in Star Trek isn't made out of something like mesons or something else?

Anyway, Baryons comprise matter as we know it, so there needs to be an explanation which does not invent new particles never mentioned, or new type of material never seen before...

Praeothmin wrote:Well, you brought it up as a possible alternative, so I guess I stuck with it...

and the other weird stuff in Star Trek isn't made out of something like mesons or something else?

Anyway, Baryons comprise matter as we know it, so there needs to be an explanation which does not invent new particles never mentioned, or new type of material never seen before...

Actually It is believed by many that dark matter may be non-baryonic, and we know of non-baryonic particles.

The Sweep removes baryons from the hull. Either they are removing some form of fictional particle that happens to be called a baryon from the hull, or baryons as we know them are removed from the hull, and the hull is not baryonic matter.

Where is it stated Tritanium and Duranium are baryonic matter?

Lucky wrote:Actually It is believed by many that dark matter may be non-baryonic, and we know of non-baryonic particles.

The Sweep removes baryons from the hull. Either they are removing some form of fictional particle that happens to be called a baryon from the hull, or baryons as we know them are removed from the hull, and the hull is not baryonic matter.

Where is it stated Tritanium and Duranium are baryonic matter?

Believed and theorized is not the same thing.
And where does it say Tritanium and Duranium are made from "Dark Matter"?
Baryons comprise most matter, as in, matter with Protons and Neutrons (Baryons).
Tritanium and Duranium can be affected by photon torpedoes, by crashing on a planet, and can be worked into different materials, so they act and behave as "normal" Baryonic matter...
This episode makes no sense, but it makes more sense than "non-Baryonic" hull matter...

Praeothmin wrote: And where does it say Tritanium and Duranium are made from "Dark Matter"?

All I claim is that Duranium and Tritanium are exotic forms of matter, and that is canon no matter what they are.

Praeothmin wrote: Baryons comprise most matter, as in, matter with Protons and Neutrons (Baryons).

Most visible matter, Baryons compose most of the visible matter.

Praeothmin wrote: Tritanium and Duranium can be affected by photon torpedoes,

Yay, they can be effected by gamma and X-rays. What isn't?

Praeothmin wrote: by crashing on a planet,

Your point being? What form of matter can't be smashed into another?

Praeothmin wrote: and can be worked into different materials,

Like some races do with neutronium alloys? ^_^

You lost me, why should they not be able to mix stable matter?

Praeothmin wrote: so they act and behave as "normal" Baryonic matter...

They act like stable matter.

Praeothmin wrote: This episode makes no sense, but it makes more sense than "non-Baryonic" hull matter...

Why does non-baryonic matter not make sense? Is it a silly thing like we have yet to find any stable non-baryonic matter in the real world?

Protons and neutrons aren't the only types of baryons that exist in the real world. Baryons are made up of three quarks apiece, and there are six types of quarks. The heaviest baryon is the Omega particle (yes, this really exists, but it doesn't have the properties the Omega molecule in ST has), so maybe the sweep is designed to remove baryons that aren't protons or neutrons.

Oh, and BTW, yes, there is such a thing as non-baryonic matter. We call it dark matter.