Yield of a Spatial Torpedo

[Mith]

Everyone remembers the episode Minefield right? No? Well, it's an Enterprise episode regarding a cloaked minefield (continuity!--maybe Starfleet wanted to keep it a secret?) over a Romulan planet. The Romulans had planted what are estimated by Reed to be a quarter of a kiloton (250 tons) bomb and is in fact, similar to a Triton Class Spatial Torpedo.

Quotes:

ARCHER: How good a theory?
REED [OC]: The closest thing I'm familiar with that this device resembles is a Triton-Class spatial torpedo. I've disarmed at least half a dozen of those. I believe I can do it, sir.

--------much later---------

ARCHER: How many seconds?
REED: I don't remember. Ten, maybe twelve.
ARCHER: It felt more like twenty.
REED: Ten, twenty, what's the difference?
ARCHER: If it had exploded, how big would the yield have been?
REED: Judging by the damage the first mine caused, I'd guess about a quarter of a kiloton. What are you getting at, sir?

I would think this would be a good basis to assume that the Spatial Torpedoes we see are at least one kiloton, though we don't know if that's the exact class, so the yield could be more or less. I doubt it's all that different though, given the rather large hole it put into the Enterprise.

[Lucky]

Everyone remembers the episode Minefield right? No? Well, it's an Enterprise episode regarding a cloaked minefield (continuity!--maybe Starfleet wanted to keep it a secret?) over a Romulan planet. The Romulans had planted what are estimated by Reed to be a quarter of a kiloton (250 tons) bomb and is in fact, similar to a Triton Class Spatial Torpedo.

Quotes:

ARCHER: How good a theory?
REED [OC]: The closest thing I'm familiar with that this device resembles is a Triton-Class spatial torpedo. I've disarmed at least half a dozen of those. I believe I can do it, sir.

--------much later---------

ARCHER: How many seconds?
REED: I don't remember. Ten, maybe twelve.
ARCHER: It felt more like twenty.
REED: Ten, twenty, what's the difference?
ARCHER: If it had exploded, how big would the yield have been?
REED: Judging by the damage the first mine caused, I'd guess about a quarter of a kiloton. What are you getting at, sir?

I would think this would be a good basis to assume that the Spatial Torpedoes we see are at least one kiloton, though we don't know if that's the exact class, so the yield could be more or less. I doubt it's all that different though, given the rather large hole it put into the Enterprise.

Would this information be useful in finding out the yields of Photonic torpedos?

[sonofccn]

I've always assumed that yes. Through I suppose it could only mean a similar type of warhead, say fusion, rather than any actual statment on the yield.

I just think 1/4 kiloton yield fits well with the spatial torpedo's place in the weapon heiarchy, just above spitballs.

Would this information be useful in finding out the yields of Photonic torpedos?

Unfortantly I don't believe we have any clear linkage between spatial and Photonic yields save a couple of Photonics set to "low" hit harder than a pair of Spatials.

[Lucky]

Would this information be useful in finding out the yields of Photonic torpedos?

Unfortantly I don't believe we have any clear linkage between spatial and Photonic yields save a couple of Photonics set to "low" hit harder than a pair of Spatials.

I thought there was an episode where they compare the capabilities of the two types of torpedos.

[Mike DiCenso]

You maybe thinking about this line from "The Expanse":

photonic torpedoes. Their range is over fifty times greater than our conventional torpedoes, and they have a variable yield. They can knock the comm. array off a shuttlepod without scratching the hull or they can put a three kilometre crater into an asteroid.

The only thing directly compared is range.
-Mike

[2046]

Regarding the opening post:

1. I am not aware that the Enterprise spatial torpedoes were ever identified as Triton Class.

2. There is no clear indication that the mine is similar to the Triton in terms of yield . . . if anything, given the aspect of a planned disarming, yield would seem to be the least likely comparative in that instance.

[Mith]

Regarding the opening post:

1. I am not aware that the Enterprise spatial torpedoes were ever identified as Triton Class.

Not specifically no.

I said that it would point to it at least being around a quarter kiloton is a safe assumption. It could be higher and it could be lower. Chances are though, it's probably less. The mine detonated when the ship wasn't using its armor enhancement and Reed said he'd taken apart half a dozen of them. That seems to suggest to me at least, that he learned it as part of training, which would probably suggest an older warhead.

2. There is no clear indication that the mine is similar to the Triton in terms of yield . . . if anything, given the aspect of a planned disarming, yield would seem to be the least likely comparative in that instance.

I've seen the episode only once, what are you refering to?

[Mike DiCenso]

A pity in "Fight or Flight" that we don't get to see Reed's little test of the spatial torpedoes against asteroids go off as planned. It would have given us a very good indicator of the warhead's yield.

The only other possibility is in "Dead Stop" when spatial torpedoes are used to destroy the automated station's docking clamp holding the ship when the NX-01 is trying to escape. You can see them shoot here at 1:27 onwards. It's hard to tell, but the arm appears to be 3-4 meters thick. The first torpedo does a little bit of vaporization, but we see a fair amount of fragmentation with glowing pieces flying off at a few meters a second. The second torpedo not only severs the arm, but makes a bigger explosion, and with far less debris (perhaps Reed ramping up the yield a bit?).
-Mike

[Mith]

That station had an impressive array of tools. It uses the same technology the UFP has had for some time. If they utilized half the things on that station, it would make the UFP a giant in industry.

[Jedi Master Spock]

A pity in "Fight or Flight" that we don't get to see Reed's little test of the spatial torpedoes against asteroids go off as planned. It would have given us a very good indicator of the warhead's yield.

The only other possibility is in "Dead Stop" when spatial torpedoes are used to destroy the automated station's docking clamp holding the ship when the NX-01 is trying to escape. You can see them shoot here at 1:27 onwards. It's hard to tell, but the arm appears to be 3-4 meters thick. The first torpedo does a little bit of vaporization, but we see a fair amount of fragmentation with glowing pieces flying off at a few meters a second. The second torpedo not only severs the arm, but makes a bigger explosion, and with far less debris (perhaps Reed ramping up the yield a bit?).
-Mike

That station had an impressive array of tools. It uses the same technology the UFP has had for some time. If they utilized half the things on that station, it would make the UFP a giant in industry.

Impressive or not, it doesn't look like the sort of explosion we'd rate at more than a terajoule. Perhaps that's a heavy-duty duratanium arm, but we don't have a good reason to conclude more than a terajoule from that.

Another point of comparison is that the spatial torpedoes are what the NX had before shifting to mostly using phase cannons. Since the nominal yield of the phase cannons was 500 gigajoules with a 5 terajoule overload exhibited, 1 terajoule fits in nicely with the level of firepower the NX already had.

I'm inclined to take "Minefield" as an indication of yield as well as warhead type. That seems the most reasonable thing to do.

[Mith]

A pity in "Fight or Flight" that we don't get to see Reed's little test of the spatial torpedoes against asteroids go off as planned. It would have given us a very good indicator of the warhead's yield.

The only other possibility is in "Dead Stop" when spatial torpedoes are used to destroy the automated station's docking clamp holding the ship when the NX-01 is trying to escape. You can see them shoot here at 1:27 onwards. It's hard to tell, but the arm appears to be 3-4 meters thick. The first torpedo does a little bit of vaporization, but we see a fair amount of fragmentation with glowing pieces flying off at a few meters a second. The second torpedo not only severs the arm, but makes a bigger explosion, and with far less debris (perhaps Reed ramping up the yield a bit?).
-Mike

That station had an impressive array of tools. It uses the same technology the UFP has had for some time. If they utilized half the things on that station, it would make the UFP a giant in industry.

Impressive or not, it doesn't look like the sort of explosion we'd rate at more than a terajoule. Perhaps that's a heavy-duty duratanium arm, but we don't have a good reason to conclude more than a terajoule from that.

Another point of comparison is that the spatial torpedoes are what the NX had before shifting to mostly using phase cannons. Since the nominal yield of the phase cannons was 500 gigajoules with a 5 terajoule overload exhibited, 1 terajoule fits in nicely with the level of firepower the NX already had.

I'm inclined to take "Minefield" as an indication of yield as well as warhead type. That seems the most reasonable thing to do.

At a quarter kiloton, that would make the output around 104.5 gigajoules, with the ship recieving about 25% of that, around 26 gigajoules. Mind you, this would be with the armor enhancement off.

EDIT: I always took the phase cannons as an upgrade over the spatial torpedoes. It always sorta made sense that they moved away from that to something stronger (from a Enterprise-centric perspective, not a series one, given the context of the others...but I just assume that the NX and a few other were test-bedding the technology or that Earth reverted to the larger stocks of fusion/fission warheads they probably had over antimatter ones).