Starfleet Jedi

For those of you who don't remember, the Wells class was the 29th century starship from Voyager's relativity. This is also the ship from the same time as the Aeon time ship from Future's End.

Sources:
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Wells_class
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Aeon_type

Now granted, there is a deal of things we don't know about these ships, but what we did learn about the Aeon class was that it was fully capable of punching through Voyager's shields with a subatomic disruptor. In addition, Voyager's phasers had absolutely no effect upon the ship itself, though whether these are shields or armor is not really said. It wasn't specifically said that the Aeon had raised shields--or even had them, but I think it would be best to assume that it did and that Voyager may not have been able to detect them. After all, we did see later in the episode that a man using crude 20th century imitation of that technology was able to beam off of Voyager through the shields.

We also learn that from yet another computer designed from the Aeon, that the same man was also able to hack Voyager through its transporter link and was able to steal 20% of Voyager's data in one go. He also had a tricorder that according to Janeway, would have allowed him to disrupt the transporter beam if he had known how to use it correctly. We know that the Aeon--or at least the 29th Federation, can scan from 900 years into the past to detect Voyager's presence, though it seemed that Voyager was around for about a day or two before they noticed, though it's also possible that they decided to hold off because maybe they knew that Voyager was going to solve the temporal incursion and didn't want to get involved.

As far as engines, we're told that the rift had been created from the Sol system in the 29th century. It apparently traveled tens of thousands of light years near instantly, making any sort of comparison with any other drive somewhat laughable, save for maybe a Dalek saucer or a Time Lord TARDIS.

In any case, we also know that the Wells class is able to beam people to and out of the past by at least 500 years. We also know that Relativity is armed with temporal shielding and what looks to be phaser arrays. According to the DITL, it has a length of 335 meters, which would be fairly small for ships of that time, considering that the Enterprise J of the 26th century is supposed to be about 3 km long according to the person who designed the ship.

Anyway, if a 6 meter long ship with like, one weapon, is capable of disabling Voyager's shields with one shot and is unaffected by her phasers, a ship 343 about the same size as the Wells, then how strong would the Wells class be if we built up from the Aeon?

Mith wrote:As far as engines, we're told that the rift had been created from the Sol system in the 29th century. It apparently traveled tens of thousands of light years near instantly, making any sort of comparison with any other drive somewhat laughable, save for maybe a Dalek saucer or a Time Lord TARDIS.

Or Atlantis' wormhole drive. That said the term instantly is often abused in many shows. There's always, at the very least, several seconds elapsing before the process is completed.

I think you listed off just about everything we already can know about the Wells class timeships, Mith. The transporter that can send people just about anywhere at anyt ime in the galaxy is an extremely powerful thing in it's own right. As a rule of thumb, I think for conventional firepower, just look at the apparent factor of ten increase in firepower that seems to occur each century; the ships of the 22nd century were totally outclassed by a single ship of the 23rd and ships of the early to mid 23rd century were totally outclassed by a single mining vessel (abeit super massive one) of the late 24th century.
-Mike

It's also possible that the ship may rely on some spacetime distortion, although invisible, to suck any damage away.

Mike DiCenso wrote:I think you listed off just about everything we already can know about the Wells class timeships, Mith. The transporter that can send people just about anywhere at anyt ime in the galaxy is an extremely powerful thing in it's own right. As a rule of thumb, I think for conventional firepower, just look at the apparent factor of ten increase in firepower that seems to occur each century; the ships of the 22nd century were totally outclassed by a single ship of the 23rd and ships of the early to mid 23rd century were totally outclassed by a single mining vessel (abeit super massive one) of the late 24th century.
-Mike

The way Abrams did the Romulan thing sort of bugged me. I mean, ignoring the non-canon comics, does this mean that the Romulans are now experimenting with borg nano-technology? I mean, they refit an old minning vessel with it. Even assuming it's a military grade ship carrying valuable materials, that's still an impressively large ship. Makes me wonder what their version of a Romulan Warbird is.

Still, I did like the BoBW refence.

Mr. Oragahn wrote:It's also possible that the ship may rely on some spacetime distortion, although invisible, to suck any damage away.

Well no, I'm guessing that Voyager's sensors would have picked something like that up.

Mith wrote:

Mr. Oragahn wrote:It's also possible that the ship may rely on some spacetime distortion, although invisible, to suck any damage away.

Well no, I'm guessing that Voyager's sensors would have picked something like that up.

Unless their fork was broken.

Mith wrote: The way Abrams did the Romulan thing sort of bugged me. I mean, ignoring the non-canon comics, does this mean that the Romulans are now experimenting with borg nano-technology? I mean, they refit an old minning vessel with it. Even assuming it's a military grade ship carrying valuable materials, that's still an impressively large ship. Makes me wonder what their version of a Romulan Warbird is.

I don't have a problem with the size of the Narada, especially given that the Federation was able to construct a fair number 14-18 km space stations without going bankrupt. The 1.3 km D'Deridex and the Scimitar warbirds are indicative that the Romulans have put a great deal of effort into solving any problems in making starships of large size. Also another thing to bear in mind is that the Narada has a great deal of internalized open space, probably dedicated to the carrying of large amounts of ore and their processessing.

If that isn't enough, remember that the relatively primitive Kazons had those 2 km Predator class warships. If they can build warp drives and such for big ships, so should just about anyone else.

Mith wrote:Still, I did like the BoBW refence.

What reference was that?
-Mike

Mike DiCenso wrote:I don't have a problem with the size of the Narada, especially given that the Federation was able to construct a fair number 14-18 km space stations without going bankrupt. The 1.3 km D'Deridex and the Scimitar warbirds are indicative that the Romulans have put a great deal of effort into solving any problems in making starships of large size. Also another thing to bear in mind is that the Narada has a great deal of internalized open space, probably dedicated to the carrying of large amounts of ore and their processessing.

If that isn't enough, remember that the relatively primitive Kazons had those 2 km Predator class warships. If they can build warp drives and such for big ships, so should just about anyone else.

Not the size so much as the advanced borg technology on the ship.

What reference was that?
-Mike

The Narada being borg tech and taking out roughly the same amount of ships in the movie as to BoBW was the reference. Mind you, BoBW was still a thousand times better, but it's also some of the best of Trek.

Mith wrote:Not the size so much as the advanced borg technology on the ship.

What advanced Borg technology was there on the the Narada? There was no sign of regeneration, no sign of adaptation of shields or weapons. It was a dank, dark ship with big open interior space, and was loaded for bear with missiles. That's all.
-Mike

Mike DiCenso wrote:

Mith wrote:Not the size so much as the advanced borg technology on the ship.

What advanced Borg technology was there on the the Narada? There was no sign of regeneration, no sign of adaptation of shields or weapons. It was a dank, dark ship with big open interior space, and was loaded for bear with missiles. That's all.
-Mike

In the book it was explained that it had stopped at a romulan military research centre and been modified by reprogrammed borg nanites and tech before going back in time. That is why it could so easily tank and kill the klingon fleet and later the fed fleet, after all a normal mining ship from the future should never be able to tank and kill entire fleets of warships from the past when you consider the relative tech levels.

But then the book explained a lot of things that were not explained in the movie.

Unfortunately, neither the comic book series, nor the movie novelization is considered canon.
-Mike

Mike DiCenso wrote:Unfortunately, neither the comic book series, nor the movie novelization is considered canon.
-Mike

Do you happen to know what the canon explanation for the "supernova that can destroy a galaxy" and a mining ship that can defeat entire fleets of warships, cos the books explanations were better than the large dose of bugger all we got from the movie?.

I am actually very interested in how canon explains these and other certain aspects of the movie if the novelisation does not count.

Unfortunately that's not yet available. You can maybe consider the exploding star destroying the galaxy to be a hyperbolic statement. But there is nothing shown us or stated in the movie that indicates the Narada itself is possessed of Borg technology. It just kinda looks Borg-like on the outside.
-Mike

Mike DiCenso wrote:Unfortunately that's not yet available. You can maybe consider the exploding star destroying the galaxy to be a hyperbolic statement.

Id rather they made up ANY sort of stupid sciencey sounding excuse that explained it than that, after all the comment was made by the original Spock making even the most absurd sounding science explanaion plausable compared to him making such a comment.

Mike DiCenso wrote:But there is nothing shown us or stated in the movie that indicates the Narada itself is possessed of Borg technology. It just kinda looks Borg-like on the outside.
-Mike

The movie needed some sort of explanation of these things because without them it seemed rushed and poorly scripted.