Starfleet Jedi

On the DITL website forum, someone pointed out that the massive saucer that the E-Alt dodges in that scene is far too large to belong to any of the starships seen leaving Earth orbit earlier in the film. In addition, much of the debris seems far too numerous to belong to so few vessels, even if they are ships 8-10 times larger than their Prime timeline counterparts. So what are they? Vulcan starships, or the remains of Vulcan defense fortifications and starbases? What?
-Mike

On the DITL website forum, someone pointed out that the massive saucer that the E-Alt dodges in that scene is far too large to belong to any of the starships seen leaving Earth orbit earlier in the film.

They just didn't watch the film with sufficient scrutiny. I commented after watching in the theater that there's a top-down scene of the Monsterprise approaching the saucer, and it's no bigger than an Altstitution saucer. But it looks positively huge-mongous in the next scene because of three things:

1. The destroyed arc of saucer is filling the width and height of the screen.
2. The Monsterprise is rolled almost 90 degrees port, with most of its saucer invisible.
3. The Monsterprise nacelles are much closer together relative to the saucer width, so there is an unconscious assumption that you're seeing almost the whole Monsterprise, instead of the reality of a lot being left over above and below the screen.

This is the view in question here. You have to do a cut and past since the image is bigger than the SFJN forum permits and ExAstris Scientia doesn't permit hotlinking:

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/scans ... saucer.jpg


While I can see what you're trying to say, Robert, I have to disagree somewhat since after careful study of the image, the mystery saucer is still about 15-20% larger than the E-Alt, even after taking into account the perspective and how much of the E-Alt's saucer is out of frame. And mind you, I'am not taking into account that the E-Alt is still some distance away from the saucer.
-Mike

Mike DiCenso wrote:after careful study of the image, the mystery saucer is still about 15-20% larger than the E-Alt

Well if you're arguing around 15%, then that's within margins of error so do whatever you like. I thought you were going with those "OMG it's HUGE!!!" folks who were saying it was half again (or even twice) the size of Monsterprise or else had to be a starbase.

I'am not prepared to say that the Mystery Saucer is half again or twice as larger as the E-Alt saucer. Not at least without having watched the scene more closely on DVD to scale it as the E-Alt gets closer. Could it be a space station/starbase saucer? Possibly. Now mind you, in reality, the saucer is likely supposed to be one of the seven starships as part of the rescue fleet that leaves Earth, but it was probably badly scaled upwards for dramatic effect by ILM as they are often known for doing. That being said, in-universe, we have to find an explanation for this and the excessive amount of debris in the field..
-Mike

I haven't seen it yet (waiting for Blu-Ray) but I'd guess that there would be a fair number of freighters, passenger vessels and the like in orbit, Vulcan being a major Federation world and all. Nero would have shot them down as well I would think.

First off, welcome to the forum, Dude.

Yes, all of that is possible, though I doubt that Nero would waste too much time trying to actively hunt down every little tramp freighter he could find. However fighting the Federation fleet and the Vulcan defense forces prior to that would explain not only the debris field size, but the hours it took him to get around to the drilling operation.
-Mike

Mike DiCenso wrote:
Yes, all of that is possible, though I doubt that Nero would waste too much time trying to actively hunt down every little tramp freighter he could find.

He spent 25 years floating around in space waiting for Spock. Given his shaky mental state (almost as shaky as the script period ;) ) and the capabilities of his ship I wouldn't put it past him.

Not to mention he grew bald, got tattoos and found some slugs ;)

I would think he would hunt down anything with a long range transmitter so he could delay any interference but then didn't he deal with the Kelvin rather quickly?

ILikeDeathNote wrote:

Mike DiCenso wrote:
Yes, all of that is possible, though I doubt that Nero would waste too much time trying to actively hunt down every little tramp freighter he could find.

He spent 25 years floating around in space waiting for Spock. Given his shaky mental state (almost as shaky as the script period ;) ) and the capabilities of his ship I wouldn't put it past him.

Actually, all joking aside, the script had scenes of what Nero and company were doing for most of those 25 years, and they were even filmed, too, but were unfortunately edited out to shorten the movie's running time. After the battle with the Kelvin, the Narada, as you may recall, was disabled. As it turns out, the Klingons came (remember that line about them being 75,00 km from Klingon space?), captured it, and tossed the crew into the Rura Penthe penal colony. Nero and crew years later escape and retake the Narada, then go rampaging through Klingon space on the way back to intercept Spock (that's what that whole thing about 47 destroyed Klingon warbirds is about).
-Mike

Roondar wrote:Not to mention he grew bald, got tattoos and found some slugs ;)

Nero and crew were bald and tattoed before they came back through time, though. :-)
-Mike

Mike DiCenso wrote:

Roondar wrote:Not to mention he grew bald, got tattoos and found some slugs ;)

Nero and crew were bald and tattoed before they came back through time, though. :-)
-Mike

See, now there's dedication for ya. He started getting in character before he needed to be crazy!

What a guy ;)

Mike DiCenso wrote:Actually, all joking aside, the script had scenes of what Nero and company were doing for most of those 25 years, and they were even filmed, too, but were unfortunately edited out to shorten the movie's running time. After the battle with the Kelvin, the Narada, as you may recall, was disabled. As it turns out, the Klingons came (remember that line about them being 75,00 km from Klingon space?), captured it, and tossed the crew into the Rura Penthe penal colony. Nero and crew years later escape and retake the Narada, then go rampaging through Klingon space on the way back to intercept Spock (that's what that whole thing about 47 destroyed Klingon warbirds is about).
-Mike

You sure about that? The novelization allegedly had all the missing scenes, and it doesn't mention any of that. It did show the other cut stuff though, like Spock's birth, why Jim stole his dad's car, etc.

l33telboi wrote:

Mike DiCenso wrote:Actually, all joking aside, the script had scenes of what Nero and company were doing for most of those 25 years, and they were even filmed, too, but were unfortunately edited out to shorten the movie's running time. After the battle with the Kelvin, the Narada, as you may recall, was disabled. As it turns out, the Klingons came (remember that line about them being 75,00 km from Klingon space?), captured it, and tossed the crew into the Rura Penthe penal colony. Nero and crew years later escape and retake the Narada, then go rampaging through Klingon space on the way back to intercept Spock (that's what that whole thing about 47 destroyed Klingon warbirds is about).
-Mike

You sure about that? The novelization allegedly had all the missing scenes, and it doesn't mention any of that. It did show the other cut stuff though, like Spock's birth, why Jim stole his dad's car, etc.

Quite sure.
-Mike