Warp-combat superiority

[Lucky]

A ship in hyperspace can run into a star or too close to a supernova; so it stands to reason that the can be tracked by Federation starship sensors, since they should be able to detect anything that can be affected by such.
We also know that ships can be tracked by homing-devices placed on the hull, so it's not like the ship disappears from the universe; rather, if sensors can penetrate far enough into subspace then it should accomplish the same effect-- and they definitely penetrate farther than stars or supernovas.

So do phasers and quantum torpedoes.

Phasers aren't gravity or sub-space weapons last time I checked. What makes you think they are?

[KSW]

A ship in hyperspace can run into a star or too close to a supernova; so it stands to reason that the can be tracked by Federation starship sensors, since they should be able to detect anything that can be affected by such.
We also know that ships can be tracked by homing-devices placed on the hull, so it's not like the ship disappears from the universe; rather, if sensors can penetrate far enough into subspace then it should accomplish the same effect-- and they definitely penetrate farther than stars or supernovas.

So do phasers and quantum torpedoes.

Phasers aren't gravity or sub-space weapons last time I checked. What makes you think they are?

Check again. They'd have to be subspace-based in order to move FTL. That's basic physics, i.e. nothing in normal space can move FTL. E=MC^2 etc.

Again, the visible portion of the phaser is just decay, otherwise it wouldn't be visible.

[WARNING: GEEK-ALERT!!!]

We know that a star's gravity cannot penetrate into subspace at an intensity of more than 28,000 G's; since otherwise it wouldn't be a star, but a BLACK HOLE, as its escape-velocity would be higher than lightspeed; and thus its mass would collapse entirely, like the planet Vulcan on red-matter.

(Calculations: 1 G = escape velocity of 11,000m/s.
Therefore 28,000 G's = 28,000 x 11,000 m/s = 308,000,000m/s = 1.03C))

Meanwhile a ship's phaser moves at least tens of thousands of times faster than lightspeed, so that's tens of thousands of times deeper into subspace than even the most densely massive star.

Therefore if the phasers can move faster than the ship in hyperspace, then it can hit the ship, since it penetrates deeper. And a phaser is far more destructive than a star's gravity; since not only does it penetrate deeper into subspace than a star's gravity, but the effect is far more disruptive-- i.e. a star's gravity is fairly constant, while a phaser is designed to disrupt things as much as possible, literally to rip things apart at the quantum level through subspace disruption; that's why things struck with a disruptor-phaser would simply "disappear" without a trace.

So in conclusion: if a star's gravity would destroy a ship in hyperspace, then a phaser-strike would really give it an owie... while a quantum torpedo would likewise "bring their little trip to an end real quick," even if it were the Death Star.

Anyway, thanks for the good questions!

[KSW]

Who says the trackers are working in Hyperspace?
It can simply be a matter of getting the tracker signal back after the ship exits Hyperspace...

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but we do know from TCW episodes like "Supply Lines" that transmissions to and from ships in hyperspace is possible.
-Mike

Not only that, but if the signal can get back to another ship light-years away, and do so instantly, then the signal must be traveling through hyperspace in order to get there at faster than lightspeed.

And if the signal is travelling through hyperspace, then it really wouldn't matter whether the ship (and tracking-device) was in hyperspace or not at the time, since the signal would be there either way.

Finally, in order for Obi-wan to follow Jango Fett from Kamino to Geonosis-- and engage him in hot pursuit in the rings of Geonosis-- then Obi-wan would have follow Jango while he was still in hyperspace. This is because hyperspace-travel takes days or weeks in normal-space time (though it's only minutes or hours in actual ship-time, due to some relatavistic time-dilation effect).

And thus if Obi-wan waited for Jango Fett to come out of hyperspace before following, then he'd have to wait days or weeks before going into hyperspace himself. And of course that would mean Jango Fett would arrive at Geonosis some days before Obi-wan.

Since this didn't happen, it's clear that Obi-wan followed Jango Fett directly into hyperspace... and this means that the tracking-device functioned in hyperspace.

[KSW]

Well, your definition seems to indicate hyperspace = subspace, and ST sensors are subspace-based... althought we don't have any proof either way that I'm aware of.

Yes we do: Solo's statements that the ship can be destroyed by passing through a star, or close to a supernova (or in the novel, "or some other friendly spatial phenom like a black hole").
This can only pertain to subspace, not some unknown dimension outside the universe.
As I've explained, that also leaves it subject to subspace-based sensors, weapons, communications etc.

[Trinoya]

So in short there is zero evidence and you're talking out your ass on a level that makes swst look like a honest debater.

[Praeothmin]

Who says the trackers are working in Hyperspace?
It can simply be a matter of getting the tracker signal back after the ship exits Hyperspace...

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but we do know from TCW episodes like "Supply Lines" that transmissions to and from ships in hyperspace is possible.
-Mike

But how does it work?
Does the tracker use Hyperspace beacons, does it use the ship Systems to send signal bursts out of Hyperspace?

Meanwhile a ship's phaser moves at least tens of thousands of times faster than lightspeed, so that's tens of thousands of times deeper into subspace than even the most densely massive star.

Prove it!

[Khas]

To further debunk KSW's theories, according to Star Wars: The New Essential Guide To Weapons And Technology, subspace and hyperspace both exist in SW, but are said to be two different things. Also, hyperspace IS part of the universe, much like how our Universe is theorized to have eleven dimensions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-theory

[Trinoya]

That would seem to put the matter to rest then.

[Mike DiCenso]

But how does it work?
Does the tracker use Hyperspace beacons, does it use the ship Systems to send signal bursts out of Hyperspace?

Looking at the one Obi-Wan tossed up onto Slave-I in AoTC, the beacons appear to be very small (fits within the palm of your hand), and operated on it's own internal power. It can't be too invasive, or it would have been noticed by Jango and Boba, and it's transmissions low-level, narrow-beam, or encrypted enough that the Fetts couldn't detect it.
-Mike

[Praeothmin]

Then it could be a Hyperspace beacon...
We know Hyperdrives are not that big compared to normal Ion Drives in SW, so why could the trackers not be the SW equivalent of ST communicators?
St communicators send subspace signals, yet are no bigger than a regular decorative pin...

[KSW]

But how does it work?
Does the tracker use Hyperspace beacons, does it use the ship Systems to send signal bursts out of Hyperspace?

Looking at the one Obi-Wan tossed up onto Slave-I in AoTC, the beacons appear to be very small (fits within the palm of your hand), and operated on it's own internal power. It can't be too invasive, or it would have been noticed by Jango and Boba, and it's transmissions low-level, narrow-beam, or encrypted enough that the Fetts couldn't detect it.
-Mike

Also the one placed on the Falcon in "A New Hope" couldn't be found by Han before they already knew where the Rebel Base was.
However it's likely that once the ship goes to hyperspace, the tracking-device detects and broadcasts that jump-vector, so that others know exactly where they're going by their route alone. That's why Han couldn't just drop out of hyperspace and remove the device, i.e. it was too late.
Leia was just to dumb to realize this before giving him the coords.

[Lucky]

A ship in hyperspace can run into a star or too close to a supernova; so it stands to reason that the can be tracked by Federation starship sensors, since they should be able to detect anything that can be affected by such.
We also know that ships can be tracked by homing-devices placed on the hull, so it's not like the ship disappears from the universe; rather, if sensors can penetrate far enough into subspace then it should accomplish the same effect-- and they definitely penetrate farther than stars or supernovas.

So do phasers and quantum torpedoes.

Phasers aren't gravity or sub-space weapons last time I checked. What makes you think they are?

Check again. They'd have to be subspace-based in order to move FTL. That's basic physics, i.e. nothing in normal space can move FTL. E=MC^2 etc.

Again, the visible portion of the phaser is just decay, otherwise it wouldn't be visible.

[WARNING: GEEK-ALERT!!!]

We know that a star's gravity cannot penetrate into subspace at an intensity of more than 28,000 G's; since otherwise it wouldn't be a star, but a BLACK HOLE, as its escape-velocity would be higher than lightspeed; and thus its mass would collapse entirely, like the planet Vulcan on red-matter.

(Calculations: 1 G = escape velocity of 11,000m/s.
Therefore 28,000 G's = 28,000 x 11,000 m/s = 308,000,000m/s = 1.03C))

Meanwhile a ship's phaser moves at least tens of thousands of times faster than lightspeed, so that's tens of thousands of times deeper into subspace than even the most densely massive star.

Therefore if the phasers can move faster than the ship in hyperspace, then it can hit the ship, since it penetrates deeper. And a phaser is far more destructive than a star's gravity; since not only does it penetrate deeper into subspace than a star's gravity, but the effect is far more disruptive-- i.e. a star's gravity is fairly constant, while a phaser is designed to disrupt things as much as possible, literally to rip things apart at the quantum level through subspace disruption; that's why things struck with a disruptor-phaser would simply "disappear" without a trace.

So in conclusion: if a star's gravity would destroy a ship in hyperspace, then a phaser-strike would really give it an owie... while a quantum torpedo would likewise "bring their little trip to an end real quick," even if it were the Death Star.

Anyway, thanks for the good questions!

Where are you getting the idea that Star Trek ships are submerged in Subspace?

I'm pretty sure Subspace weapons are band by treaty.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Subspace_weapon

If Phasers are gravity weapons then why are graviton beams something different?

_____
General Relativity does not say things can not go faster then the speed of light. It states things can not accelerate to speeds faster then the speed of light.

Tachyons are theoretical particles that move faster then light.

[Lucky]

To further debunk KSW's theories, according to Star Wars: The New Essential Guide To Weapons And Technology, subspace and hyperspace both exist in SW, but are said to be two different things. Also, hyperspace IS part of the universe, much like how our Universe is theorized to have eleven dimensions. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-theory

I'm pretty sure La Forge describes sub-space as a honeycomb with an infinite number of cells in Schisms, and Star Trek does have something they call hyper-space, but I'm not sure what that is really.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Subspace
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Hyperspace

[Khas]

So, now that we know that both subspace and hyperspace exist in both ST and SW, and are said to be two different things, well, there goes a lot of fan theories out the window.

[KSW]

Where are you getting the idea that Star Trek ships are submerged in Subspace?

I didn't say they were submerged, that would be a wormhole. Warp means that the remains in normal-space while also in subspace.

If Phasers are gravity weapons then why are graviton beams something different?

When did I say they were gravity-weapons?

General Relativity does not say things can not go faster then the speed of light. It states things can not accelerate to speeds faster then the speed of light.
Tachyons are theoretical particles that move faster then light.

Who says tachyons exist in normal space?