Power Generation calculations

[Mike DiCenso]

And I would agree with you, except that the example in question doesn't support that within the given context. We have an actual interior scene where we can time how long it takes the BoP to reach above cloud top with, and the ship doesn't go into space on impulse power, it jumps to warp, which is totally different.

On top of that, I hate having to resort to a "Two Wrongs Make a Right" fallacy, except to demonstrate their dishonesty. Not that it'll work on them anyway since they'll probably just ignore. I think it was Picard or WILGA who used the E-E jumping to warp in "First Contact" and the subsequent jump cut to the Borg ship at Earth, followed less than a couple minutes later, coupled with the canonical distance given to Romulan territory in ST:ENT's "Dead Stop" to get a ridiculously high warp speed. The point was lost on Warsies then, and it'll likely be lost on them now.
-Mike

[Praeothmin]

And I would agree with you, except that the example in question doesn't support that within the given context. We have an actual interior scene where we can time how long it takes the BoP to reach above cloud top with, and the ship doesn't go into space on impulse power, it jumps to warp, which is totally different.
-Mike

The goes from right above sea level and accelerates to high atmosphere within a few seconds, acceleration in atmosphere, going towards space, and reaches at least a couple thousand feet before going to Warp...
That gives us an acceleration figure, and thus we can extrapolate a power generation level as well...
If the ship massing, say, 100 000 metric tons, travels from height 1 meter to height 4000 meters in less than 20 seconds, does it not need to generate sufficient power to perform this?

[Mike DiCenso]

It takes about 45 seconds, actually. If we assume that Sulu began climbing the BoP from the jump cut following the scaring off of the whaling ship at a low hover to when we next cut to the exterior scene of them flying above cloud top and then going to warp. Because there is no visual indication, we can't say with any certainty how long it took. The most impressive thing the BoP does that way is the earlier scene of them flying through the atmosphere across 600 nautical miles (1,111 km) in just about 2 minutes to intercept George and Gracie, and save them from the whalers.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

Interesting how the warp system completely circumvents obvious friction problems and other massive matter displacements.
At least this was consistently brought in nuTrek with the arrival into Jupiter's rings.

[Khas]

[Canon Nazi Mode]
It was Saturn's rings, not Jupiter's.
[/Canon Nazi Mode]

[Mike DiCenso]

Interesting how the warp system completely circumvents obvious friction problems and other massive matter displacements.
At least this was consistently brought in nuTrek with the arrival into Jupiter's rings.

Saturn's moon Titan's atmosphere, but yes. But this shouldn't come as any suprise they can do that since the warp bubble is creating a distortion of space-time around the ship, plus the navigational deflectors probably push most of the matter out of the way without too many effects. I mean, think about it. In every series, the ships go to high impulse speed or go to warp and the interstellar gas and dust doesn't even light up on the nav deflector beam. Not once ever.
-Mike

[Mr. Oragahn]

[Canon Nazi Mode]
It was Saturn's rings, not Jupiter's.
[/Canon Nazi Mode]

Saturn's moon Titan's atmosphere, but yes.
-Mike

Wait guys. I watched Star Wars one eyed. I barely paid any attention to astronomical details from the plot. So was it Saturn's rings or Titan's atmosphere?

[Mike DiCenso]

The Alt-E warped into Titan's atmosphere:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/thum ... 450&page=2

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/thum ... 450&page=3

The confusion probably stems from having Saturn in the background as the ship rises out of it.
-Mike

[Lucky]

I've been thinking about how CS came to calculate his ICS firepower figures, and how many Warsies use those, even though the effects of such power generation in an atmosphere would be devastating to the environment...
Since most Warsies ignore this, and say that the energy has to be generated, and don't explain where it goes since it magically doesn't go into its environment as Science would say it should, then couldn't ST also use this method?

In ST, we see Starships leave planetary surfaces many times:
-The BoP in ST IV;
-Voyager in "the 37s", "Demon", the episode where they have to land to repair Warp Coils, and in that episode where they are fired upon by alien ships while leaving the planetary surface.

In all these cases, the ships travel from the surface to high orbit, if not space, in a matter of seconds, just as fast as in SW...
Since these ships are using thrusters (as mentioned in "Demon" and "the 37s"), and nowhere in ST is mass-lightening mentioned at STL, then what kind of power would Voyager, a 700 000 metric ton ship, need to travel from the surface of an M-Class world (Earth) to space in a few seconds?
In a minute?
In an hour?

I believe the Phoenix's flight in Star Trek: First Contact is what you are looking for.

[Praeothmin]

True, I forgot about that one...

There's also the BoP leaving Vulcan in ST: IV...

[Mike DiCenso]

If you want to add more atmospheric flight episodes to the list, just consider the NX-01 diving into and out of gas giant atmospheres in "Broken Bow" and "Sleeping Dogs". Or the Defiant flying around down into and then inside of a gas giant in "Starship Down". There is also on the conservative side of things the badly crippled E-1701's flying inside of and then out of Earth's atmosphere in "Tomorrow is Yesterday".
-Mike

[Lucky]

Interesting how the warp system completely circumvents obvious friction problems and other massive matter displacements.
At least this was consistently brought in nuTrek with the arrival into Jupiter's rings.

It's the navigational deflector that lets the ship do stuff like that. Without a working ND the ship will basically be sandblasted to death if it even tries to use its warp drive and possibly Impulse drive.

[Lucky]

True, I forgot about that one...

There's also the BoP leaving Vulcan in ST: IV...

[Phoenix cockpit]

LAFORGE: Plasma injectors are on-line. Everything's looking good. I think we're ready.

RIKER: They should be out there right now. We better break the warp barrier in the next five minutes if we're going to get their attention.

LAFORGE: Main cells are charged and ready.

RIKER: Let's do it.

COCHRANE: Engage.

LAFORGE: Warp field is looking good. Structural integrity is holding.

RIKER: Speed, twenty thousand kilometres per second.

COCHRANE: Sweet Jesus!

(Cochrane has spotted the Enterprise in orbit)

RIKER: Relax, Doctor. I'm sure they're just here to give us a send-off.

[Enterprise-E engineering]
(Picard is on the Borg bio-bed)

DATA: I am bringing the external sensors on-line.

(the Phoenix appears on the viewscreen)

[Phoenix cockpit]

RIKER: Thirty seconds to warp threshold. ...Approaching light-speed.

COCHRANE: We're at critical velocity.

20,000 kps to 300,000 kps in a few minutes?

[Mike DiCenso]

Looks like we'll be adding another one to the books:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albu ... _hd_25.jpg

The Alt-E either landed in the ocean and is bobbing around, or is actually surfacing up from under the waves. Either way, very impressive.
-Mike

[Lucky]

Looks like we'll be adding another one to the books:

http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albu ... _hd_25.jpg

The Alt-E either landed in the ocean and is bobbing around, or is actually surfacing up from under the waves. Either way, very impressive.
-Mike

What is that from?