Why no reason believe MACO does not existed in DS9 and TNG

[359]

Sisko and O Brian know about it however they could easily cover it up. Fact if starfleet classified weapon systems been used not openly admit to it they well likely us coverup story.

By that logic one could assume Sisko to actually be a Romulan hologram designed to infiltrate and manipulate the Bajoren's religion, but that is un-warented and ridiculous. Albeit, my example is a little more far fetched than your claim, but not by that much.

Because we are given information, the TR-116 is an unused prototype, and there is no evidence to the contrary, no evidence of Sisko and O'Brien covering up its true use, we are forced to accept that concept as fact within that universe.

[Jasonb]

Sisko and O Brian know about it however they could easily cover it up. Fact if starfleet classified weapon systems been used not openly admit to it they well likely us coverup story.

By that logic one could assume Sisko to actually be a Romulan hologram designed to infiltrate and manipulate the Bajoren's religion, but that is un-warented and ridiculous. Albeit, my example is a little more far fetched than your claim, but not by that much.

Because we are given information, the TR-116 is an unused prototype, and there is no evidence to the contrary, no evidence of Sisko and O'Brien covering up its true use, we are forced to accept that concept as fact within that universe.

Beside factor see UFP personal give cover story classified piece equipment left another problem unless the UFP has stander issues mirco transporters available easily and the fact

[359]

Beside factor see UFP personal give cover story classified piece equipment left another problem unless the UFP has stander issues mirco transporters available easily and the fact

why wouldn't a small transporter be readily available or a replicator pattern? Even if it wasn't, O'Brien had plenty of time to construct one in a workshop on the station. They were trying to figure out how the pilot had been killed, O'Brien figures it out, runs off and builds the transporter and attaches it to the TR-116, and finally calls the others for a demo and explanation. Just as it happened in the episode.

[Jasonb]

Beside factor see UFP personal give cover story classified piece equipment left another problem unless the UFP has stander issues mirco transporters available easily and the fact

why wouldn't a small transporter be readily available or a replicator pattern? Even if it wasn't, O'Brien had plenty of time to construct one in a workshop on the station. They were trying to figure out how the pilot had been killed, O'Brien figures it out, runs off and builds the transporter and attaches it to the TR-116, and finally calls the others for a demo and explanation. Just as it happened in the episode.

Another problem found what O Brian explain is DS9 to Death. If they could just replication that kind rifle. They would have done it in that Star Terk DS9 espidoe To the death. Get few UFP officer beam up to USS Defiant replication those rifles and then greater upper hand fire fight. Instead they want basic mission fight blade weapons when bullet give great upper hand. We see Compression phaser rifle able fire eniverment that O Brian talk about so he also get the name wrong. Meaning O Brian and Sisko were tell more tall at best.

[359]

Just because they do not use the weapon in situations where it would make sense is not proof of their inability to use it.

We see Compression phaser rifle able fire eniverment that O Brian talk about so he also get the name wrong. Meaning O Brian and Sisko were tell more tall at best.

When? Anyway, why couldn't a compression rifle use regenerative phaser technology.

[Jasonb]

Just because they do not use the weapon in situations where it would make sense is not proof of their inability to use it.

We see Compression phaser rifle able fire eniverment that O Brian talk about so he also get the name wrong. Meaning O Brian and Sisko were tell more tall at best.

When? Anyway, why couldn't a compression rifle use regenerative phaser technology.

I admit the our heroes and people fight beside often under equement just make look more effective. Like tie one hands behind back enter a fight just show good fighter are.

Oda lying is head off at least which make one wounder why as well. Saying no one us projective weapons as more. More few crew-member collection guns we know at least one personal that did Federation he unlikely Federation officer. It likley other races do well collection guns even play now and then. Even some evidence Cardassion still us projective weapons even that up to debate. So he either try get some information Sisko and O Brian which both had cover story for or something else about very fishes ask me about Oda saying.

[359]

Oda lying is head off at least which make one wounder why as well. Saying no one us projective weapons as more. More few crew-member collection guns we know at least one personal that did Federation he unlikely Federation officer. It likley other races do well collection guns even play now and then.

Odo was talking about people using guns as weapons instead of collectibles for hobbyists. Also there is no reason for him to lie, and it doesn't fit with his character. The only times we see projectile weapons in use is either as collectibles (such as Sulu and the pistol in TOS: "Shore Leave"), in use by primitive non-space faring peoples (the Romans in TOS: "Bread and Circus"), or as makeshift weapons when nothing else is available (Nimbus III "The Final Frontier"). The weapons in use by non-space faring civilizations are irrelevant as they could not be aboard DS9.

Even some evidence Cardassion still us projective weapons even that up to debate.

When is there evidence of this?

[Jasonb]

Oda lying is head off at least which make one wounder why as well. Saying no one us projective weapons as more. More few crew-member collection guns we know at least one personal that did Federation he unlikely Federation officer. It likley other races do well collection guns even play now and then.

Odo was talking about people using guns as weapons instead of collectibles for hobbyists. Also there is no reason for him to lie, and it doesn't fit with his character. The only times we see projectile weapons in use is either as collectibles (such as Sulu and the pistol in TOS: "Shore Leave"), in use by primitive non-space faring peoples (the Romans in TOS: "Bread and Circus"), or as makeshift weapons when nothing else is available (Nimbus III "The Final Frontier"). The weapons in use by non-space faring civilizations are irrelevant as they could not be aboard DS9.

Even some evidence Cardassion still us projective weapons even that up to debate.

When is there evidence of this?

Let see were to being first human still using fire arms in Star Terk Enterprise on cargo ships. The Evora all honestly just gain warp drive few years early. Likelihood cargo arm stander handle phaser energy base weapon been near zero.

As for Oda statement no us projectile weapon anymore be unlikely say least just that information alone we also see Evora on DS9 or race look slimier.

As for Nimbus III idea that Kirk men equipment shield bullet resistance shields seem very effective. Why world Kirk men equipment bullet prof shields also weapon also Colonel West sniper might projectile base

[Lucky]

Oda lying is head off at least which make one wounder why as well. Saying no one us projective weapons as more. More few crew-member collection guns we know at least one personal that did Federation he unlikely Federation officer. It likley other races do well collection guns even play now and then. Even some evidence Cardassion still us projective weapons even that up to debate. So he either try get some information Sisko and O Brian which both had cover story for or something else about very fishes ask me about Oda saying.

Could you provide the quote please? There is a chance that you are taking what was said too literally.

It seems like the most common weapons used by space fairing races are "energy" weapons.

[Jasonb]

Oda lying is head off at least which make one wounder why as well. Saying no one us projective weapons as more. More few crew-member collection guns we know at least one personal that did Federation he unlikely Federation officer. It likley other races do well collection guns even play now and then. Even some evidence Cardassion still us projective weapons even that up to debate. So he either try get some information Sisko and O Brian which both had cover story for or something else about very fishes ask me about Oda saying.

Could you provide the quote please? There is a chance that you are taking what was said too literally.

It seems like the most common weapons used by space fairing races are "energy" weapons.

Oda statement was No one uses projectile weapons
anymore.

http://www.st-minutiae.com/academy/lite ... 29/563.txt

[Lucky]

Oda statement was No one uses projectile weapons
anymore.

http://www.st-minutiae.com/academy/lite ... 29/563.txt

Odo has no reason to lie. It is an Overgeneralization fallacy, and therefor not meant to be taken literally. What Odo is saying is that slug throwers are rarely used as weapons by the people who come through Deep Space Nine, and possibly most space going races.

Energy weapons are very logistics friendly when you can easily recharge the power packs.

[Jasonb]

Oda statement was No one uses projectile weapons
anymore.

http://www.st-minutiae.com/academy/lite ... 29/563.txt

Odo has no reason to lie. It is an Overgeneralization fallacy, and therefor not meant to be taken literally. What Odo is saying is that slug throwers are rarely used as weapons by the people who come through Deep Space Nine, and possibly most space going races.

Energy weapons are very logistics friendly when you can easily recharge the power packs.

Odo no reason us that statement in first place. If maybe 5 race used projectile weapons they be first search out. Instead Odo made sound like no race even start search in first place. Sounds to me more like try hid classified technology as for Sisko he and O Brian did not seem to quick openly admit that weapon existed either. One thought Bertram get the weapon pattern lot early maybe day or week before first assassination began sound fishes say the least. When he could real republication he done a lot early I mean years early. It more likley that he stole it then republication it just timing it self.

[Lucky]

Odo no reason us that statement in first place. If maybe 5 race used projectile weapons they be first search out. Instead Odo made sound like no race even start search in first place. Sounds to me more like try hid classified technology as for Sisko he and O Brian did not seem to quick openly admit that weapon existed either. One thought Bertram get the weapon pattern lot early maybe day or week before first assassination began sound fishes say the least. When he could real republication he done a lot early I mean years early. It more likley that he stole it then republication it just timing it self.

Read the entire scene. You are taking statements out of context.

[Ilario's quarters]

(Odo, Bashir and security are with a body) 

EZRI: What happened? 

ODO: Lieutenant Ilario has been killed. 

EZRI: Killed? How? 

BASHIR: It appears someone shot him. 

(After the opening titles, Sisko has arrived and O'Brien is doing the CSI tricorder thing.) 

ODO: He was killed by what appears to have been some kind of chemically propelled projectile weapon. 

SISKO: A gun? 

ODO: Doctor Bashir recovered a single tritanium bullet from Ilario's chest. 

BASHIR: He was shot through the heart. 

O'BRIEN: You don't see one of those every day. 

ODO: No one uses projectile weapons anymore. 

SISKO: You said this is tritanium, right? 

ODO: That's correct. 

SISKO: Chief, did you ever hear of a TR one one six rifle? 

O'BRIEN: It was a prototype. Developed by Starfleet Security to operate in energy dampening fields or radiogenic environments. 

SISKO: That's right. Anywhere where a normal phaser would be useless. If I'm not mistaken, the TR one one six rifle fired a chemically propelled tritanium bullet. 

ODO: You say a prototype. Were they ever mass produced? 

O'BRIEN: No. Starfleet abandoned the TR one one six in favour of regenerative phasers. 

SISKO: That doesn't mean the killer couldn't have gotten hold of the rifle's replication patterns. 

O'BRIEN: But only Starfleet officers have access to those files. 

SISKO: Disturbing thought, isn't it? 

BASHIR: Starfleet officers do not go around murdering other officers. 

ODO: Not usually, anyway. 

O'BRIEN: Hold on a minute. That's odd. According to these readings, the bullet only travelled eight or nine centimetres. 

SISKO: Then the killer must have fired at point blank range. 

ODO: I don't think so. There are no powder burns on the body. 

BASHIR: What are powder burns? 

ODO: At close range, chemically propelled weapons leave residual combustion products on the skin and clothing of the victims. 

SISKO: How did you know that? 

ODO: I read twentieth century crime novels. Raymond Chandler, Mike Hammer, that sort of thing. 

SISKO: So, if the killer did fire from close range, why aren't there any powder burns? 

O'BRIEN: I don't know. 

ODO: But we'll find out. 

EZRI: What was the time of death? 

BASHIR: Oh three seventeen. 

EZRI: That's only ten minutes after I left. 

SISKO: Was he alone? 

EZRI: I didn't see anyone, but I wasn't here for very long. 

SISKO: What do we know about Ilario, outside of his service record? 

ODO: Not a great deal. He's only been on the station for ten days. 

EZRI: As far as I could tell, he was intelligent, dedicated, eager to please. Everyone liked him. 

SISKO: Not everyone. I want to know everything there is to know about him. Who his friends were, if he made any enemies. I also want increased security throughout the station. 

ODO: Yes, sir. 

SISKO: And Constable 

ODO: You want whoever did this caught. I understand, Captain.

Odo only knows about powder burns because he read a 20th century Earth crime novel, and Bashir didn't even know what powder burns were. The entire scene illustrates that that the use of firearms as weapons is extremely rare for space going races. Odo's statement about no one using firearms is an over generalization, and everyone present knows what Odo means, and do not take him literately.

Sisko and O'Brian are talking very openly about the TR-116, and it is clearly stated that any Star Fleet officer could get access to the information the weapon can't be a secret.

[Jasonb]

Odo no reason us that statement in first place. If maybe 5 race used projectile weapons they be first search out. Instead Odo made sound like no race even start search in first place. Sounds to me more like try hid classified technology as for Sisko he and O Brian did not seem to quick openly admit that weapon existed either. One thought Bertram get the weapon pattern lot early maybe day or week before first assassination began sound fishes say the least. When he could real republication he done a lot early I mean years early. It more likley that he stole it then republication it just timing it self.

Read the entire scene. You are taking statements out of context.

[Ilario's quarters]

(Odo, Bashir and security are with a body) 

EZRI: What happened? 

ODO: Lieutenant Ilario has been killed. 

EZRI: Killed? How? 

BASHIR: It appears someone shot him. 

(After the opening titles, Sisko has arrived and O'Brien is doing the CSI tricorder thing.) 

ODO: He was killed by what appears to have been some kind of chemically propelled projectile weapon. 

SISKO: A gun? 

ODO: Doctor Bashir recovered a single tritanium bullet from Ilario's chest. 

BASHIR: He was shot through the heart. 

O'BRIEN: You don't see one of those every day. 

ODO: No one uses projectile weapons anymore. 

SISKO: You said this is tritanium, right? 

ODO: That's correct. 

SISKO: Chief, did you ever hear of a TR one one six rifle? 

O'BRIEN: It was a prototype. Developed by Starfleet Security to operate in energy dampening fields or radiogenic environments. 

SISKO: That's right. Anywhere where a normal phaser would be useless. If I'm not mistaken, the TR one one six rifle fired a chemically propelled tritanium bullet. 

ODO: You say a prototype. Were they ever mass produced? 

O'BRIEN: No. Starfleet abandoned the TR one one six in favour of regenerative phasers. 

SISKO: That doesn't mean the killer couldn't have gotten hold of the rifle's replication patterns. 

O'BRIEN: But only Starfleet officers have access to those files. 

SISKO: Disturbing thought, isn't it? 

BASHIR: Starfleet officers do not go around murdering other officers. 

ODO: Not usually, anyway. 

O'BRIEN: Hold on a minute. That's odd. According to these readings, the bullet only travelled eight or nine centimetres. 

SISKO: Then the killer must have fired at point blank range. 

ODO: I don't think so. There are no powder burns on the body. 

BASHIR: What are powder burns? 

ODO: At close range, chemically propelled weapons leave residual combustion products on the skin and clothing of the victims. 

SISKO: How did you know that? 

ODO: I read twentieth century crime novels. Raymond Chandler, Mike Hammer, that sort of thing. 

SISKO: So, if the killer did fire from close range, why aren't there any powder burns? 

O'BRIEN: I don't know. 

ODO: But we'll find out. 

EZRI: What was the time of death? 

BASHIR: Oh three seventeen. 

EZRI: That's only ten minutes after I left. 

SISKO: Was he alone? 

EZRI: I didn't see anyone, but I wasn't here for very long. 

SISKO: What do we know about Ilario, outside of his service record? 

ODO: Not a great deal. He's only been on the station for ten days. 

EZRI: As far as I could tell, he was intelligent, dedicated, eager to please. Everyone liked him. 

SISKO: Not everyone. I want to know everything there is to know about him. Who his friends were, if he made any enemies. I also want increased security throughout the station. 

ODO: Yes, sir. 

SISKO: And Constable 

ODO: You want whoever did this caught. I understand, Captain.

Odo only knows about powder burns because he read a 20th century Earth crime novel, and Bashir didn't even know what powder burns were. The entire scene illustrates that that the use of firearms as weapons is extremely rare for space going races. Odo's statement about no one using firearms is an over generalization, and everyone present knows what Odo means, and do not take him literately.

Sisko and O'Brian are talking very openly about the TR-116, and it is clearly stated that any Star Fleet officer could get access to the information the weapon can't be a secret.

You can not hide a weapon existed once put out in open.Cover story what design for would smart. Why did Bashir not know about it let face why Bertram only find out about weapon few days before murder happen. He colluction guns think replication before get on station first place. Bertram delay getting weapon first place replication before he on the DS9 pritty strong evidence must starfleet office unaware existed. He might found some UFP special forces. Beside those target sensor had design for some kind special force rifle used bullet even not from that kind rifle.

[Lucky]

Odo no reason us that statement in first place. If maybe 5 race used projectile weapons they be first search out. Instead Odo made sound like no race even start search in first place. Sounds to me more like try hid classified technology as for Sisko he and O Brian did not seem to quick openly admit that weapon existed either. One thought Bertram get the weapon pattern lot early maybe day or week before first assassination began sound fishes say the least. When he could real republication he done a lot early I mean years early. It more likley that he stole it then republication it just timing it self.

Read the entire scene. You are taking statements out of context.

[Ilario's quarters]

(Odo, Bashir and security are with a body) 

EZRI: What happened? 

ODO: Lieutenant Ilario has been killed. 

EZRI: Killed? How?
BASHIR: It appears someone shot him. 

(After the opening titles, Sisko has arrived and O'Brien is doing the CSI tricorder thing.) 

ODO: He was killed by what appears to have been some kind of chemically propelled projectile weapon. 

SISKO: A gun? 

ODO: Doctor Bashir recovered a single tritanium bullet from Ilario's chest. 

BASHIR: He was shot through the heart. 

O'BRIEN: You don't see one of those every day. 

ODO: No one uses projectile weapons anymore. 

SISKO: You said this is tritanium, right? 

ODO: That's correct. 
SISKO: Chief, did you ever hear of a TR one one six rifle? 

O'BRIEN: It was a prototype. Developed by Starfleet Security to operate in energy dampening fields or radiogenic environments. 

SISKO: That's right. Anywhere where a normal phaser would be useless. If I'm not mistaken, the TR one one six rifle fired a chemically propelled tritanium bullet. 

ODO: You say a prototype. Were they ever mass produced? 

O'BRIEN: No. Starfleet abandoned the TR one one six in favour of regenerative phasers. 

SISKO: That doesn't mean the killer couldn't have gotten hold of the rifle's replication patterns. 

O'BRIEN: But only Starfleet officers have access to those files. 
SISKO: Disturbing thought, isn't it? 

BASHIR: Starfleet officers do not go around murdering other officers. 

ODO: Not usually, anyway. 

O'BRIEN: Hold on a minute. That's odd. According to these readings, the bullet only travelled eight or nine centimetres. 

SISKO: Then the killer must have fired at point blank range. 

ODO: I don't think so. There are no powder burns on the body. 

BASHIR: What are powder burns? 

ODO: At close range, chemically propelled weapons leave residual combustion products on the skin and clothing of the victims. 

SISKO: How did you know that? 

ODO: I read twentieth century crime novels. Raymond Chandler, Mike Hammer, that sort of thing. 

SISKO: So, if the killer did fire from close range, why aren't there any powder burns? 

O'BRIEN: I don't know. 

ODO: But we'll find out. 

EZRI: What was the time of death? 

BASHIR: Oh three seventeen. 

EZRI: That's only ten minutes after I left. 

SISKO: Was he alone? 

EZRI: I didn't see anyone, but I wasn't here for very long. 

SISKO: What do we know about Ilario, outside of his service record? 

ODO: Not a great deal. He's only been on the station for ten days.
EZRI: As far as I could tell, he was intelligent, dedicated, eager to please. Everyone liked him. 

SISKO: Not everyone. I want to know everything there is to know about him. Who his friends were, if he made any enemies. I also want increased security throughout the station. 

ODO: Yes, sir. 

SISKO: And Constable 

ODO: You want whoever did this caught. I understand, Captain.

Odo only knows about powder burns because he read a 20th century Earth crime novel, and Bashir didn't even know what powder burns were. The entire scene illustrates that that the use of firearms as weapons is extremely rare for space going races. Odo's statement about no one using firearms is an over generalization, and everyone present knows what Odo means, and do not take him literately.

Sisko and O'Brian are talking very openly about the TR-116, and it is clearly stated that any Star Fleet officer could get access to the information the weapon can't be a secret.

You can not hide a weapon existed once put out in open.Cover story what design for would smart. Why did Bashir not know about it let face why Bertram only find out about weapon few days before murder happen. He colluction guns think replication before get on station first place. Bertram delay getting weapon first place replication before he on the DS9 pritty strong evidence must starfleet office unaware existed. He might found some UFP special forces. Beside those target sensor had design for some kind special force rifle used bullet even not from that kind rifle.

The TR-116 was never a secret project. Militaries decide to develop and test weapons all the time, but then decide to not put them into production for any number of reasons all the time. Look at the XM-8 for example. There was no cover story. Phasers had a certain limitation, and the Federation was working on a work around, but then phaser designs improved, and the Federation discontinued the project because it wasn't needed.

Bashir did not know about the TR-116 because he didn't care. He is a doctor, and focuses on playing doctor in every way. Sisko and O'Brian are engineer/science types with a strong military/combat background so it something they would be interested in.

You need to show that the sight and micro transporter are part of the TR-116's standard design, and not things added by the owner as tacticool(this is slang) gear. The sight seems similar to what is on a phaser rifle after all, and in the U.S.A. you can often get a number of after market modifications done to a weapon.