Other ships at Alderaan

For polite and reasoned discussion of Star Wars and/or Star Trek.
Locked
KSW
Bridge Officer
Posts: 209
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:28 pm

Other ships at Alderaan

Post by KSW » Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:17 am

When the Death Star destroys Alderaan, there's not a single other ship approaching or leaving it.

What happened to them all? A planet like Alderaan would have thousands or millions of ships approaching and departing constantly; why weren't there many other ships popping up out of hyperspace, rather than just the Falcon?

User avatar
Mr. Oragahn
Admiral
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:58 am

Re: Other ships at Alderaan

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Wed Mar 21, 2012 11:24 pm

We wouldn't see them. The DS was 6 planetary diameters away from its target. Anything within two planetary diameters from the crust would be immediately pulverized, going by the looks of its expansion. That's often how close ships enter or exit hyperspace.

General Donner
Bridge Officer
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:28 pm

Re: Other ships at Alderaan

Post by General Donner » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:05 pm

I think his point was rather, why is the Millenium Falcon the first ship to get there afterward and discover Alderaan isn't there anymore? Why aren't there any others arriving before or after?

Which is actually a good question. Surely there'd be other ships in transit to a major planet like Alderaan, consistently identified as rich and politically influential in the EU and the G-canon. (IIRC most specifically in the radio drama.) Just people commuting to and from Coruscant and the other core worlds should probably make up a sizeable volume. Never mind trade and supplies.

Perhaps the Empire shut down local space. In the EU, contrary to what the film dialogue would imply, they basically say Tarkin was out of line destroying Alderaan, and the rest of the Empire tried to cover it up with all kinds of absurd propaganda spins and conspiracy theory mongering. (One story was that the Rebels blew up the planet, another that it collided with a comet or something. And there were others.) So they might have set up a blockade, I suppose. But if so, that begs the question why the Falcon got through.

Jedi Master Spock
Site Admin
Posts: 2166
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:26 pm

Re: Other ships at Alderaan

Post by Jedi Master Spock » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:55 am

General Donner wrote:I think his point was rather, why is the Millenium Falcon the first ship to get there afterward and discover Alderaan isn't there anymore? Why aren't there any others arriving before or after?

Which is actually a good question. Surely there'd be other ships in transit to a major planet like Alderaan, consistently identified as rich and politically influential in the EU and the G-canon. (IIRC most specifically in the radio drama.) Just people commuting to and from Coruscant and the other core worlds should probably make up a sizeable volume. Never mind trade and supplies.

Perhaps the Empire shut down local space. In the EU, contrary to what the film dialogue would imply, they basically say Tarkin was out of line destroying Alderaan, and the rest of the Empire tried to cover it up with all kinds of absurd propaganda spins and conspiracy theory mongering. (One story was that the Rebels blew up the planet, another that it collided with a comet or something. And there were others.) So they might have set up a blockade, I suppose. But if so, that begs the question why the Falcon got through.
The short answer is that the Falcon almost didn't get through - they were intercepted by the Death Star's patrol TIEs, remember? We don't have to actually see other ships getting stopped by Imperials to conclude it probably happened off-screen.

User avatar
Mr. Oragahn
Admiral
Posts: 6865
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:58 am

Re: Other ships at Alderaan

Post by Mr. Oragahn » Fri Mar 23, 2012 12:25 pm

The whole place was so saturated of crap and stuff (not all necessarily visible to the naked eye) that the MF's sensors detected the TIE fighter when it was literally on top of it.
It goes without saying that detecting ships further away was simply impossible (aside from the fact that they'd exactly look like the bazillion specks filling space at that time.

Mike DiCenso
Security Officer
Posts: 5839
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:49 pm

Re: Other ships at Alderaan

Post by Mike DiCenso » Sat Mar 24, 2012 7:18 am

Besides which, who in their right mind would stay around after Alderaan got blown up? Assuming, of course, that any regular ships in the vicinity had survived the explosion.
-Mike

KSW
Bridge Officer
Posts: 209
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:28 pm

Re: Other ships at Alderaan

Post by KSW » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:59 pm

Mike DiCenso wrote:Besides which, who in their right mind would stay around after Alderaan got blown up? Assuming, of course, that any regular ships in the vicinity had survived the explosion.
-Mike
Well this brings up a good point: the novel states that Han Solo, being a smuggler, always came out of hyperspace with his deflectors up, and that's what saved the Falcon from being destroyed by the debris.
So maybe that's what happened to the other ships that came out of hyperspace after the explosion i.e. they got destroyed by the debris since it wasn't usual for ships to keep deflectors up when coming out of hyperspace.

KSW
Bridge Officer
Posts: 209
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:28 pm

Re: Other ships at Alderaan

Post by KSW » Sat Mar 24, 2012 5:08 pm

General Donner wrote:I think his point was rather, why is the Millenium Falcon the first ship to get there afterward and discover Alderaan isn't there anymore? Why aren't there any others arriving before or after?

Which is actually a good question. Surely there'd be other ships in transit to a major planet like Alderaan, consistently identified as rich and politically influential in the EU and the G-canon. (IIRC most specifically in the radio drama.) Just people commuting to and from Coruscant and the other core worlds should probably make up a sizeable volume. Never mind trade and supplies.

Perhaps the Empire shut down local space. In the EU, contrary to what the film dialogue would imply, they basically say Tarkin was out of line destroying Alderaan, and the rest of the Empire tried to cover it up with all kinds of absurd propaganda spins and conspiracy theory mongering. (One story was that the Rebels blew up the planet, another that it collided with a comet or something. And there were others.) So they might have set up a blockade, I suppose. But if so, that begs the question why the Falcon got through.
Well as we see in TPM, a blockade doesn't stop anyone from getting to a planet via hyperspace; it only stops them from landing, by firing on them.
And since there was no planet to land on, it would be fairly useless.
As for the Falcon, I would think that running blockades were his specialty; he knew just about every trick, and in the novel he said he could even lose a ship that was following him in hyperspace.

(But seriously-- a comet destroying an entire planet? They actually used that line?
What gutters does the EU drag for writers? I'd hate to see the stuff they turn down! It's just one more strike against the already-dead and buried claim of EU-completism.)

General Donner
Bridge Officer
Posts: 217
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:28 pm

Re: Other ships at Alderaan

Post by General Donner » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:01 pm

MauriceWindows wrote:Well as we see in TPM, a blockade doesn't stop anyone from getting to a planet via hyperspace; it only stops them from landing, by firing on them.
And since there was no planet to land on, it would be fairly useless.
As for the Falcon, I would think that running blockades were his specialty; he knew just about every trick, and in the novel he said he could even lose a ship that was following him in hyperspace.
Well, the EU has means of blockading that shut off hyperspace. They're mentioned every once in a while.
(But seriously-- a comet destroying an entire planet? They actually used that line?
What gutters does the EU drag for writers? I'd hate to see the stuff they turn down! It's just one more strike against the already-dead and buried claim of EU-completism.)
Now that I looked it up, it was actually described as a "meteor storm" in the comic that used that line. So I exaggerated a bit, if only unintentionally.

The EU, though, produces quite better material than most of the stuff Lucas is involved with, IMHO. Comparatively few novels are as retarded as the cartoon series will regularly be.

Lucky
Jedi Master
Posts: 2239
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:28 pm

Re: Other ships at Alderaan

Post by Lucky » Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:59 am

General Donner wrote:
MauriceWindows wrote:Well as we see in TPM, a blockade doesn't stop anyone from getting to a planet via hyperspace; it only stops them from landing, by firing on them.
And since there was no planet to land on, it would be fairly useless.
As for the Falcon, I would think that running blockades were his specialty; he knew just about every trick, and in the novel he said he could even lose a ship that was following him in hyperspace.
Well, the EU has means of blockading that shut off hyperspace. They're mentioned every once in a while.
(But seriously-- a comet destroying an entire planet? They actually used that line?
What gutters does the EU drag for writers? I'd hate to see the stuff they turn down! It's just one more strike against the already-dead and buried claim of EU-completism.)
Now that I looked it up, it was actually described as a "meteor storm" in the comic that used that line. So I exaggerated a bit, if only unintentionally.

The EU, though, produces quite better material than most of the stuff Lucas is involved with, IMHO. Comparatively few novels are as retarded as the cartoon series will regularly be.
Given how quickly the TIE found the Falcon I think the TIE was waiting for ships to come. It only takes one ship to blockade a system in Star Wars because of Hyper lanes.

Mike DiCenso
Security Officer
Posts: 5839
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:49 pm

Re: Other ships at Alderaan

Post by Mike DiCenso » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:30 pm

MauriceWindows wrote:
General Donner wrote:I think his point was rather, why is the Millenium Falcon the first ship to get there afterward and discover Alderaan isn't there anymore? Why aren't there any others arriving before or after?

Which is actually a good question. Surely there'd be other ships in transit to a major planet like Alderaan, consistently identified as rich and politically influential in the EU and the G-canon. (IIRC most specifically in the radio drama.) Just people commuting to and from Coruscant and the other core worlds should probably make up a sizeable volume. Never mind trade and supplies.

Perhaps the Empire shut down local space. In the EU, contrary to what the film dialogue would imply, they basically say Tarkin was out of line destroying Alderaan, and the rest of the Empire tried to cover it up with all kinds of absurd propaganda spins and conspiracy theory mongering. (One story was that the Rebels blew up the planet, another that it collided with a comet or something. And there were others.) So they might have set up a blockade, I suppose. But if so, that begs the question why the Falcon got through.
Well as we see in TPM, a blockade doesn't stop anyone from getting to a planet via hyperspace; it only stops them from landing, by firing on them.
And since there was no planet to land on, it would be fairly useless.
As for the Falcon, I would think that running blockades were his specialty; he knew just about every trick, and in the novel he said he could even lose a ship that was following him in hyperspace.

(But seriously-- a comet destroying an entire planet? They actually used that line?
What gutters does the EU drag for writers? I'd hate to see the stuff they turn down! It's just one more strike against the already-dead and buried claim of EU-completism.)

The problem with that is given that there must be hundreds, if not thousands of ships going to and from Alderaan on a daily basis given how important it is in the Empire. You would think that at least a few of them would have shields up. Even if one thought that Alderaan was a nice safe planet, the possibility of a "not on the charts" asteroid field or some such navigational hazard would require many ship captains to come in with shields up. And those that were in the vicinity of the planet when the Death Star blew it up, would have had some time to raise shields, or might have seen the battlestation coming in and decided to get the hell out of Dodge.

One possibility is that the Death Star captured some survivors, as was done with the Falcon. Indeed there is an old Ralph McQuarrie concept painting of a ship in one of the Death Star docking bays that was similar to the Falcon, but was not Han Solo's ship. According to the caption was that the Empire was going around capturing ships all over the place, which would explain why so many didn't get away, although that would not explain why anyone would hang around too long after finding out the planet had been destroyed, except maybe to look for survivors. It may even be that the scout TIE's job is the look for and lure in towards the Death Star incoming ships for capture or destruction.

But on the other hand, wouldn't Tarkin want as many survivors as possible to spread the word of Alderaan's destruction? Isn't that why he chose to go through with the "test" because Dantooine was too remote?
-Mike

KSW
Bridge Officer
Posts: 209
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:28 pm

Re: Other ships at Alderaan

Post by KSW » Wed Mar 28, 2012 8:58 pm

You're right, any ships which survived would either be captured or would depart.

Jasonb
Jedi Knight
Posts: 283
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:28 pm

Re: Other ships at Alderaan

Post by Jasonb » Thu May 10, 2012 2:52 am

Mike DiCenso wrote:
MauriceWindows wrote:
General Donner wrote:I think his point was rather, why is the Millenium Falcon the first ship to get there afterward and discover Alderaan isn't there anymore? Why aren't there any others arriving before or after?

Which is actually a good question. Surely there'd be other ships in transit to a major planet like Alderaan, consistently identified as rich and politically influential in the EU and the G-canon. (IIRC most specifically in the radio drama.) Just people commuting to and from Coruscant and the other core worlds should probably make up a sizeable volume. Never mind trade and supplies.

Perhaps the Empire shut down local space. In the EU, contrary to what the film dialogue would imply, they basically say Tarkin was out of line destroying Alderaan, and the rest of the Empire tried to cover it up with all kinds of absurd propaganda spins and conspiracy theory mongering. (One story was that the Rebels blew up the planet, another that it collided with a comet or something. And there were others.) So they might have set up a blockade, I suppose. But if so, that begs the question why the Falcon got through.
Well as we see in TPM, a blockade doesn't stop anyone from getting to a planet via hyperspace; it only stops them from landing, by firing on them.
And since there was no planet to land on, it would be fairly useless.
As for the Falcon, I would think that running blockades were his specialty; he knew just about every trick, and in the novel he said he could even lose a ship that was following him in hyperspace.

(But seriously-- a comet destroying an entire planet? They actually used that line?
What gutters does the EU drag for writers? I'd hate to see the stuff they turn down! It's just one more strike against the already-dead and buried claim of EU-completism.)

The problem with that is given that there must be hundreds, if not thousands of ships going to and from Alderaan on a daily basis given how important it is in the Empire. You would think that at least a few of them would have shields up. Even if one thought that Alderaan was a nice safe planet, the possibility of a "not on the charts" asteroid field or some such navigational hazard would require many ship captains to come in with shields up. And those that were in the vicinity of the planet when the Death Star blew it up, would have had some time to raise shields, or might have seen the battlestation coming in and decided to get the hell out of Dodge.

One possibility is that the Death Star captured some survivors, as was done with the Falcon. Indeed there is an old Ralph McQuarrie concept painting of a ship in one of the Death Star docking bays that was similar to the Falcon, but was not Han Solo's ship. According to the caption was that the Empire was going around capturing ships all over the place, which would explain why so many didn't get away, although that would not explain why anyone would hang around too long after finding out the planet had been destroyed, except maybe to look for survivors. It may even be that the scout TIE's job is the look for and lure in towards the Death Star incoming ships for capture or destruction.

But on the other hand, wouldn't Tarkin want as many survivors as possible to spread the word of Alderaan's destruction? Isn't that why he chose to go through with the "test" because Dantooine was too remote?
-Mike
That real question one might want ask why Empire try cover up the planet get destroyed. Empire goal spread fear they want everyone Galatia Empire know about Death star blow planet sky-high.

Locked