The Anakin vs Obi-Wan Duel: Why did Obi-Wan Win?

[Picard]

1. anakin must lose his duel with obi-wan and have his limbs hacked off while his entire body is on fire so that he can become 'more machine than man', even though he has been shown to be the more powerful jedi and duelist time and again.

Maybe it had something to do with his anger overwhelming him and making him act stupidly. Power is no good if you don't know how to use it properly.

3. padme must die so that she's out of the picture in the OT. seriously though? death by broken heart??

Maybe had to do something with Force. But people have died from laughter, so...

4. obi-wan takes luke to tattoine and hides him with his family, regardless of the fact that anakin has visited them before.

Emperor did not, and Anakin is told that he has killed Padme in his anger... therefore, he does not know that he has any children. But it was lot of a risk.

[mojo]

Maybe it had something to do with his anger overwhelming him and making him act stupidly. Power is no good if you don't know how to use it properly.

when forced to try and make sense of this, my personal thought is that i don't think anakin ever had any intention of killing obi-wan. he was extraordinarily pissed off, but i think he was just kind of playing at the duel. i think he was trying to scare and hurt obi-wan into acting as he thought he should. i think anakin's reaction after he gets hacked to pieces can be seen as bearing this out, as it seems like shock and betrayal. obi-wan warns him, 'i've got the high ground', and anakin leaps without hesitation- he expects to land. he expects to be allowed to land. i don't think he really understood that obi-wan would actually try to kill him.
one thing that has always bothered me about the obi-wan/anakin duel is the bit where they are face to face and they both try to force-push each other at the same time. they clearly throw near equal amounts of force as they both slide away at the same speed. but isn't anakin's force ability much higher than obi-wan's? and doesn't using the dark side amp up the power of aggressive force use? so if his anger was overwhelming him and forcing him to act stupidly and recklessly, and he was far stronger in the force than obi-wan before he turned to the dark side, and his aggressive force strength was amplified by using the dark side of the force, wouldn't he have blown obi-wan into orbit if he wasn't holding back?
it actually reminds me of the saber duels between vader and luke, in which vader (at least in tesb, and most probably in rotj as well) could have destroyed luke with ease at any moment. he's clearly toying with luke, hoping to scare/hurt him into submitting.

i know it's a stretch, but certainly within the realm of possibility. i don't think anakin shows himself to be duelling stupidly, i think it looks more as if he is sparring. i will certainly concede the possibility that his anger overwhelms his ability to understand the seriousness of the situation, and that sparring against someone who is trying to kill you is stupid.

[Praeothmin]

anakin must lose his duel with obi-wan and have his limbs hacked off while his entire body is on fire so that he can become 'more machine than man', even though he has been shown to be the more powerful jedi and duelist time and again.

Anakin has never been shown to be the better duelist, and his Force potential may have been better, but not his actual power levels...
Dooku, at the beginning of the RotS fight, takes out the better fighter early on, thinking he could then kill Anakin, but Anakin taps greatly in the Dark side for a quick power boost, and the way Palpatine looks at Anakin, I don't know if he wasn't helping him in some way...

the Anakin vs Obi-Wan fight was everything but a "contest" from anakin's POV.
He just killed the love of his life, for Christ's sake...
He was arrogant, headstrong and not too bright.
Obi-Wan was prudent, and the master of defensive fighting...
As Force power went, they were at a stalemate, as seen when Anakin an Obi-Wan cannot beat each other using the Force...
When he leaped at Obi-Wan, he was fully confident that the high ground wouldn't help Obi-Wan because Anakin thought he was better...
not because he expected Obi-Wan to let him land...

Why Obi-Wan didn't kill him is beyond me though...

[sonofccn]

@Praeothmin: Agreed. In raw power Anakin was the best but due to his own hubris and relative youth he hadn't mastered to the same extent Obi-wan had. Or to say it differntly old Ben was weak but skilled which allowed him to hold his own until an opening presented itself.

Why Obi-Wan didn't kill him is beyond me though...

Well I personally can think of two reaons. One "good" the other "bad". The "good" one is Obi, despite everything, still saw Darth Vader as Anakin and no longer in a life or death situation he couldn't bring himself to finish the job. Seeing as how he'd lost almost all of his limbs and was on fire death was all but certain and old Ben just couldn't bring himself to kill his friend when it would be done "cleanly" anyway in a little while.

The "bad" is that Obi-wan believed Anakin was already dead, killed by Vader as he would say later, and believing Darth Vader would soon follow saw no reason to prematurly end his suffering leaving him to fester in the flames so to speak.

[Mike DiCenso]

This is all well and good, but I'm going to move this since it really ought to be in it's own seperate thread rather than in one about turbolaser firepower.
-Mike

[mojo]

anakin must lose his duel with obi-wan and have his limbs hacked off while his entire body is on fire so that he can become 'more machine than man', even though he has been shown to be the more powerful jedi and duelist time and again.

Anakin has never been shown to be the better duelist, and his Force potential may have been better, but not his actual power levels...

but then why do obi-wan and anakin reminisce multiple times about situations anakin had to save obi-wan from?

Dooku, at the beginning of the RotS fight, takes out the better fighter early on, thinking he could then kill Anakin,

i've always thought that dooku immediately neutralizes obi-wan so that he can concentrate on anakin, who he sees as a greater danger.

but Anakin taps greatly in the Dark side for a quick power boost,

dooku flings obi-wan away with no sign of effort and then smashes his legs.
why wouldn't he just do the same thing with anakin? because of the dark force boost? the dark side force energy enables him to beat dooku handily?

and the way Palpatine looks at Anakin, I don't know if he wasn't helping him in some way...

i don't know what to say about that. maybe?

the Anakin vs Obi-Wan fight was everything but a "contest" from anakin's POV.
He just killed the love of his life, for Christ's sake...

but he didn't know she was dead until the famous DO NOT WANT scene.

He was arrogant, headstrong and not too bright.
Obi-Wan was prudent, and the master of defensive fighting...

As Force power went, they were at a stalemate, as seen when Anakin an Obi-Wan cannot beat each other using the Force...

that bugs the shit out of me. how is that even possible?

When he leaped at Obi-Wan, he was fully confident that the high ground wouldn't help Obi-Wan because Anakin thought he was better...
not because he expected Obi-Wan to let him land...

but obi-wan was anakin's brother/father figure. anakin is always complaining about how obi-wan won't let him do anything and obi-wan doesn't understand him and obi-wan would be mad if he saw me doing this, and he keeps testing obi-wan's authority. definitely a father/son thing. can you imagine your dad hacking you into pieces and watching you slowly slide into molten lava? who could even conceive of that? and can you imagine actually killing your own dad? no way anakin kills obi-wan imo.

[Praeothmin]

Anakin was an Emo-Whiny bitch, with the highest Force potential until the guy from FU...

He was talented, great at flying, great at repairing things, but was all brute force and impetuousness, while Obi-Wan was (most of the time) the more calculating one...

Yeah, we get told many times of how Anakin "saved" Obi-Wan, but we don't get any additional information about the situations...
And if all those times Anakin "saved" Obi-Wan turn out like on Geonosis, than those aren't great saves, are they?
In fact, judging by the movies, Anakin did not, at any time, show more power in the Force than Obi-Wan, or greater fighting abilities...
AotC show us Obi-wan as a much better fighter, lasting much longer than Anakin against Dooku...
On Grevious's ship, Obi-Wan disposes of his two Magna-guards faster than Anakin...
And in the fight against Dooku, Anakin displays the same arrogance he had in their first encounter, and for a while, after Dooku disposes of Obi-Wan, he seems to toy with Anakin, but then we see Palpatine's face, like he is concentrating, and suddenly Dooku is in trouble...
Plus, in the fight against Obi-Wan, Anakin, who was about to Force-choke Amidala before Obi-Wan's intervention, doesn't look like a guy who's just "testing" his father figure.
He looks like the whiny bitch he is trying to kill the one he blames for all his shortcomings, all his failures...
And if kids in the real world can kill their parents, then I have no trouble believing Anakin wanted to kill Obi-Wan...