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 Post subject: a pack of Defiants vs a Vorlon Dreadnaught
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 7:42 pm 
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six of these tough little guys fully armed and outfitted lead by the USS Defiant worf in command

Image

take on one of these backed up by a 24 Vorlon fighters

Image

can the Fed battle group come out of this alive or will the first ones annihilate them?


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 Post subject: Re: a pack of Defiants vs a Vorlon Dreadnaught
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 8:06 pm 
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The manouverability of the vorlon fighters and the fact that ships in the B5 galaxy and especially fighters move in combat the way you would expect ships in space to move rather than like aircraft in dog fights give them a slight edge, however it is unlikely that can survive a hit from the defiant class dorsal phasers.

The dreadnought is at least a KM long although it is considered more powerful than any other ship of its class in the B5 galaxy including shadow battle craps of a simular size, unlike other ships in the B5 galaxy it was shown to seemingly have shields. Its main weapon can easily kill a shadow battle crab while its shields and armour have been seen to take a hit from a shadow vessels beam with only slight scaring in a small area. I have no idea nor can i remember if the Vorlon dread has arrays around its hull but if it has they would certainly be weaker than its main weapon.

I would give this win to the Defiants against a B5 series vorlon dread and fighters, and the win to the wanktastic EU vorlon dread and fighters.


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 Post subject: Re: a pack of Defiants vs a Vorlon Dreadnaught
 Post Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:38 pm 
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ah the b5 EU the only place where pot headed tiki space drifters can beat nigh omnipotents outside of comic books and star trek TOS...and Squids with incredibly low birth rates if any exist at all from an immortal and stagnant society can Spam billions of ships with no pilots...

yeah Kor you can debate based only off the series if you want I've no idea where or why B 5 has an EU but its more insane then wars and wont get angry if it's discounted in the thread man


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 Post subject: Re: a pack of Defiants vs a Vorlon Dreadnaught
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:45 am 
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I would have to put my money on the defiants, as much as I like B5. Vorlon ships don't seem to have any form of attack besides the forward firing weapon, while the defiant has pulse phasers, normal phasers, and torpedoes. Vorlon and Shadow armor seems to be capable of of absorbing a great deal of punishment from energy based weapons (compare the results of a battlecrab firing on a Narn G'Quan, vs what happens when a battlecrab fires on a Vorlon ship). However, Vorlon Armor is adaptive, and it is unlikely that they would have encountered phasers or other starfleet weapons before this point, and we know that whitestars (mixed minbari/vorlon tech), at the very least, are vulnerable to impacts from solid objects, a weakenss that star trek ships are generally not confronted with while their shields are still up. The fighters of the Vorlons are capable of being destroyed by ships of the younger races, so they probably wouldn't be much trouble for six defiants. I would give this battle to the defiants, the only real outlier I can think of would be if the Vorlons tried to mess with Whorf's mind with their psychic powers, or something similar, even then, that would only likely work if it was a 1v1 fight. As is, there are just too many ships for one Vorlon cruiser and some fighters to deal with.


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 Post subject: Re: a pack of Defiants vs a Vorlon Dreadnaught
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:03 am 
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I'm going with the Defiants here. B5 is just too underpowered when compared to ST. I mean, it took two proximity blasts from two 2-MT nukes to destroy a Minbari Sharlin-class cruiser. That's something even SDN will admit that a Trek ship could easily fend off.

Note: In space, a nuke wouldn't produce a shockwave, only radiation. B5 doesn't look so tough now, does it?


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 Post subject: Re: a pack of Defiants vs a Vorlon Dreadnaught
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 1:28 am 
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While I agree that a single Vorlon cruiser would be no match for a six Defiants, it's a little unfair to compare a Vorlon Cruiser to a Sharlin, the two ships are on completely different level of firepower and armor. Although, if you do want to go down that road, the 2-megaton bombs do produce noticeable shockwaves, so perhaps those warheads contained more than just a nuclear bomb? :) Six defiants versus a lone Vorlon ship would definitely be a wholesale slaughter though.


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 Post subject: Re: a pack of Defiants vs a Vorlon Dreadnaught
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:08 am 
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Khas wrote:
I'm going with the Defiants here. B5 is just too underpowered when compared to ST. I mean, it took two proximity blasts from two 2-MT nukes to destroy a Minbari Sharlin-class cruiser. That's something even SDN will admit that a Trek ship could easily fend off.

Note: In space, a nuke wouldn't produce a shockwave, only radiation. B5 doesn't look so tough now, does it?


Vorlon ships are staggeringly more durable then that though they took an attack from a battle crab undamaged and they do have decent fire power


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 Post subject: Re: a pack of Defiants vs a Vorlon Dreadnaught
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:18 am 
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Admiral Breetai wrote:
Khas wrote:
I'm going with the Defiants here. B5 is just too underpowered when compared to ST. I mean, it took two proximity blasts from two 2-MT nukes to destroy a Minbari Sharlin-class cruiser. That's something even SDN will admit that a Trek ship could easily fend off.

Note: In space, a nuke wouldn't produce a shockwave, only radiation. B5 doesn't look so tough now, does it?


Vorlon ships are staggeringly more durable then that though they took an attack from a battle crab undamaged and they do have decent fire power

You wouldn't happen to have a clip of that Vorlon ship would you? I recall the Vorlon ship using it's weapons to create a shield, and exploiting the weakness to telepaths.


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 Post subject: Re: a pack of Defiants vs a Vorlon Dreadnaught
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:37 pm 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok4FJn5lpB4

The heavier Vorlon ships do indeed seem to be capable of shielding themselves, but in the final showdown of the shadow war, we see a similar ship get its bridge taken out by an unknown beam weapon, without a similar shield effect, so it may be reasonable to assume that the shield effect is based on the forward weapon. This is somewhat of an advantage and a disadvantage. In a battle where the enemy has a numerical advantage, (such as against several defiants) it wouldn't be able to target or shield itself very well. Vorlon ships are certainly better armored then the younger races or the shadows though-aside from the aforementioned bridge hit and the planet killer, we never see a vorlon ship bigger than a fighter get taken out. Against a small defiant fleet however, it will just get swarmed and its unprotected rear exploited. In my honest opinion, B5 is much more suited towards fighting SW than ST. B5 and SW are much more naval in their combat, if you want to talk a dreadnought vs a star destroyer, I think the outcome might be a little bit different, but 6 defiants is a bit much.

As for psychic powers....I don't think we ever see the vorlons exert effects similar to those of the younger races on the shadow vessels. The psychic powers of the vorlons and shadows seem to work a bit differently than those of the younger races, this is probably more evidence of genetic manipulation of the younger races by the vorlons. My understanding is that the younger races telepathic powers were developed specifically to combat shadow vessels.


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 Post subject: Re: a pack of Defiants vs a Vorlon Dreadnaught
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:04 pm 
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Aurochs wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok4FJn5lpB4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok4FJn5lpB4

The heavier Vorlon ships do indeed seem to be capable of shielding themselves, but in the final showdown of the shadow war, we see a similar ship get its bridge taken out by an unknown beam weapon, without a similar shield effect, so it may be reasonable to assume that the shield effect is based on the forward weapon.


More likely that its shields were down/depleated.

Quote:
As for psychic powers....I don't think we ever see the vorlons exert effects similar to those of the younger races on the shadow vessels. The psychic powers of the vorlons and shadows seem to work a bit differently than those of the younger races, this is probably more evidence of genetic manipulation of the younger races by the vorlons. My understanding is that the younger races telepathic powers were developed specifically to combat shadow vessels.


Not all Vorlons are telepaths and they are seeminly of differing levels as well, the first Kosh could connect and communicate with people and he did kick the crap out of sheridan in the corridor seemingly using TK abilities as well, while the second Kosh easily overpowered Lyta Alexander the ubertelepath.

I think it was more about using the younger races and their telepaths as fodder more than any real differences in abilities between younger races and vorlons.


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 Post subject: Re: a pack of Defiants vs a Vorlon Dreadnaught
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:39 pm 
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Good points. I always had the impression that the telepaths of the younger races were nowhere near as as powerful as the shadows and vorlons, but that they were 'specialized' towards disrupting shadow vessels due to genetic manipulation by the vorlons when they set about creating telepaths in the Younger Races. We never see the Vorlons jam shadow vessels, even during the final showdown between the two fleets, which would seem to indicate that either the Shadows managed to acquire enough telepaths to use in their ships to prevent this tactic, or that vorlons are not capable of disrupting shadow vessels despite their psychic prowess. It is entirely possible that the shadow vessels did get the telepaths they needed though, since we never see ANY shadow vessels get blocked in the final battle, by Vorlons or Young Races.


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 Post subject: Re: a pack of Defiants vs a Vorlon Dreadnaught
 Post Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 6:22 pm 
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Aurochs wrote:
Good points. I always had the impression that the telepaths of the younger races were nowhere near as as powerful as the shadows and vorlons, but that they were 'specialized' towards disrupting shadow vessels due to genetic manipulation by the vorlons when they set about creating telepaths in the Younger Races.

We never see the Vorlons jam shadow vessels, even during the final showdown between the two fleets, which would seem to indicate that either the Shadows managed to acquire enough telepaths to use in their ships to prevent this tactic, or that vorlons are not capable of disrupting shadow vessels despite their psychic prowess. It is entirely possible that the shadow vessels did get the telepaths they needed though, since we never see ANY shadow vessels get blocked in the final battle, by Vorlons or Young Races.


Shadow vessels are not normally manned by actual shadows that is why even mid level human telepaths can disrupt the organic/younger race CPU's, it is highly likely that when they send ships into battle that vorlons also use remote control rather than risk their immortal asses against remote controlled ships for no real reason, as such they would not be in or close enough to the battle to exert telepathic control on the shadow ships.


Yea i cannot remember seeing any Shadow vessel in the final battle jammed and we know the Alliance fleet had telepaths capable of doing so, but then it was a vast battle with thousands of ships on each of the trhree sides and we only really saw small pockets of fighting and it could be that jammed ships were off screen as showing ships not fighting is not considered entertaining and not needed to be seen as the ability is established.


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 Post subject: Re: a pack of Defiants vs a Vorlon Dreadnaught
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:56 am 
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here is shadow fire power displayed pretty nicely I would think..and gives a goods indication to the pounding a dreadnaught could take

I like your idea about them being more SW oriented that's interesting

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH8WKvyOT38

hopefully this helps give perspective


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 Post subject: Re: a pack of Defiants vs a Vorlon Dreadnaught
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 8:35 am 
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Aurochs wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok4FJn5lpB4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok4FJn5lpB4

The heavier Vorlon ships do indeed seem to be capable of shielding themselves, but in the final showdown of the shadow war, we see a similar ship get its bridge taken out by an unknown beam weapon, without a similar shield effect, so it may be reasonable to assume that the shield effect is based on the forward weapon.

Kor_Dahar_Master wrote:
More likely that its shields were down/depleated.
It looked more like the Vorlon ship could use weapons or it could use shields to me. The shield seemed to be generated by the same organs that fired the beam weapons.


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