Rebuttal to darkstar's website

[Picard]

You do realize that the two forces were moving within a few hundred meters of each other, right? That's simply ridiculous to the extreme, and there is almost no justification for such a maneuver. Any space age fleet should not have to move within a km to hit a giant borg cube that wasn't trying to dodge/evade any of the attacks.

What part of adaptation problem you did not understand? Do you even know how regenerative shields (which are special anti-Borg tech, and Borg use something similar) work?

More cherry picking. What about the times when blasters were making giant holes in walls, blasting off chunks of concrete and blasting droids apart?

Giant holes? You mean holes about 10 cm in diameter?

EU sources give the imperial fleet 25,000 star destroyers. Darkstar would rather use a figure of speech by Han Solo in a state of near shock. Han Solo also said in LOTF: Invincible that mando ships could fly through supernovas, but we obviously know that such is hyperbole.

Interestingly, part of Solo's quote give Imperial fleet of less than thousand capital ships.

ROFL what? This is your response? You do realize that a modern town would be more populated than ancient Rome, right? Based on glimpses of Taris from orbit, a city in Star Wars even back in the KOTOR era is the size of a continent. Based on modern day city:small town scalings a Star Wars small town would actually be larger than New York City. Instead, darkstar would rather use Mos Eisley, in the backwater Tatooine, as a figure for a small town in the context of Coruscant!

1) Only small town seen in SW canon is Mos Eisley
2) Writer of novelization made comment in reference to modern-day Earth, so it is not SW small town but rather US small town (writer being from US)

Except that there are numerous occasions when Federation redshirts could have won far more easily if they were to simply use modern combat doctrine and designs.

Such as?

Actually, there are a huge amount of senators in the Galactic Senate that were shown, enough to cover a huge building that dwarfs modern skyscrapers.

Few hundred senators at most. Really impressive. Only thing impressive here are your lies.

Except that transwarp has not been shown to be as fast or reliable than hyperdrive, nor has the Federation mass produced them.

Voyager produced quantum slipstream drive. And Galaxy class can achieve up to 3.6 million c burst speed, or 9 000 c sustainable warp.

Which assumes that said crew could somehow capture a Star Wars ship.

Why not? Just drop its shields and transport crew into space.

Except that Han Solo didn't brag about it, so you're making things up.

Are you really such liar? Some of us here actually watched movies in question.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

What part of adaptation problem you did not understand? Do you even know how regenerative shields (which are special anti-Borg tech, and Borg use something similar) work?

And shields have to do with weapons ranges and accuracy...how exactly? Oh, it doesn't.

Giant holes? You mean holes about 10 cm in diameter?

Apparently, you don't think that making 10 cm holes with small arms is impressive.

Interestingly, part of Solo's quote give Imperial fleet of less than thousand capital ships.

Wow, you just repeated the exact quote that I was responding to. Such wisdom! I understand what the quote was about, and I was responding to it. Your rebuttal is...to repeat the quote?

1) Only small town seen in SW canon is Mos Eisley
2) Writer of novelization made comment in reference to modern-day Earth, so it is not SW small town but rather US small town (writer being from US)

1. And this somehow equates to all Star Wars towns being that size...how exactly? I noticed that you completely evaded the point.
2. And you can prove this, right? Despite the fact that the authors don't break the 4th wall in the Star Wars novels?

Such as?

Like having machine guns and other automatic weapons so that they don't get run down by klingons.

Few hundred senators at most. Really impressive. Only thing impressive here are your lies.

ROFL. Clearly you weren't paying attention to the scene, because there were at LEAST several thousand people in the Senate.

Voyager produced quantum slipstream drive. And Galaxy class can achieve up to 3.6 million c burst speed, or 9 000 c sustainable warp.

Wow. Not only is your figure still substantially lower than hyperdrive, but you don't seem to understand the terms "mass produce" and "reliable".

Why not? Just drop its shields and transport crew into space.

Yeah! Just drop its teraton level shields that the Federation can quite frankly do nothing to! It's not that simple.

Are you really such liar? Some of us here actually watched movies in question.

A competent debater would have actually posted a rebuttal, aka providing evidence to support your claims. "some of us here actually watched movies in question" - is this really a response? Why don't you actually provide some evidence to support your rebuttal?

Him: Han was bragging about it!
Me: No he wasn't. When did he do that?
You: Yeah he did!

Such a response.

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Apparently, you don't think that making 10 cm holes with small arms is impressive.

It is not impressive when you understand how easily certain material fracture when subjected to even light impacts.

And you can prove this, right? .

The very fact the writer mentions a small town without giving more details regarding area coverage clearly means he is expecting the reader to assume a contemporary small town, if not then the comment would have been pointless rather than a helpful indicator for the readers imagination.

Like having machine guns and other automatic weapons so that they don't get run down by klingons.

Automatic weapons?, you know that most starfleet weapons can fire a continuos beam right?.

Yeah! Just drop its teraton level shields that the Federation can quite frankly do nothing to! It's not that simple.

Teraton level shields?, yea right try megaton at best.

[Praeothmin]

StarWarsStarTrek, ask, and you shall receive...
The quotes, from ANH, the movie, while Obi-Wan is teaching Luke about the force:

Luke: You don't believe in the Force, do you?
Han Solo: Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other, and I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen *anything* to make me believe that there's one all-powerful Force controlling everything. 'Cause no mystical energy field controls *my* destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.

A competent debater would have actually posted a rebuttal, aka providing evidence to support your claims.

You mean the same thing you fail to provide every single time you post?
You: "The ships in RotJ fired at a distance on thousands of km!"

Us: "No they don't, scaling from the size of an ISD, and the angle the Rebel fleet was positioned from the DS II, they engaged at tops at a couple dozen km..."

You: "No, they fired at thousands of km because I say so and I will not provide evidence for it!"

You're in no position to call anyone a bad debater, SWST, as you are actually one of the worst one's I've seen in a long time... :)

[Picard]

And shields have to do with weapons ranges and accuracy...how exactly? Oh, it doesn't.

Thanks for confirming that you have no idea what are you talking about. Firing from closer up, you give enemy less time to analyze weapons fire and adapt.

Apparently, you don't think that making 10 cm holes with small arms is impressive.

Given that walls in Cloud City looked like they were made from gypsum or plastics... and 10 centimeters is large, but is nowhere near 'giant'.

Wow, you just repeated the exact quote that I was responding to. Such wisdom! I understand what the quote was about, and I was responding to it. Your rebuttal is...to repeat the quote?

Beacouse you did not adress it. I don't know what Solo's state of shock has to do with strength of Imperial fleet. And we do have another way to determine strength of Imperial fleet; Darkstar did it, although I did not have time (yet).

1. And this somehow equates to all Star Wars towns being that size...how exactly? I noticed that you completely evaded the point.

1.
a) I fail to see how I evade anything. You, on other hand, constantly evade proof and logic while trying to reshape canon in order to make it fit ICS
b) Mos Eisley is only reference point from canon that we have
2. Oh, you fail logic. Great.
Novelization is aimed at people from Earth, not someone from Coruscant, Bar Jadda Lol, name it. From that follows that author is trying to make novel understandable to people from Earth, by using - guess what? Reference points they can use, which means something from their surroundings.

Like having machine guns and other automatic weapons so that they don't get run down by klingons.

Except that all types of phaser rifles shown in TNG+ series' have at least burst-fire ability, if not full auto

ROFL. Clearly you weren't paying attention to the scene, because there were at LEAST several thousand people in the Senate.

ROFL won't change fact that you are lying.

Wow. Not only is your figure still substantially lower than hyperdrive, but you don't seem to understand the terms "mass produce" and "reliable".

And how fast hyperdrive is (canon, please)?

Yeah! Just drop its teraton level shields that the Federation can quite frankly do nothing to! It's not that simple.

Frankly, only thing from canon we have gives us 1.5 megaton heavy turbolasers, and I do not rememeber battles lasting for 2 months.

A competent debater would have actually posted a rebuttal, aka providing evidence to support your claims. "some of us here actually watched movies in question" - is this really a response? Why don't you actually provide some evidence to support your rebuttal?

Him: Han was bragging about it!
Me: No he wasn't. When did he do that?
You: Yeah he did!

Such a response.

It is better than any of your responses, beacouse it isn't lie. I would bet that you never provided piece of real evidence in your life. I don't have time to actually take a screenshot and show it to you, but there were no more than 300 flying saucers in senate chamber.

[StarWarsStarTrek]

Thanks for confirming that you have no idea what are you talking about. Firing from closer up, you give enemy less time to analyze weapons fire and adapt.

And your assumption that the borg would be able to adapt to weapons mid trajectory comes from...what exactly?

Given that walls in Cloud City looked like they were made from gypsum or plastics... and 10 centimeters is large, but is nowhere near 'giant'.

Of course, you will have to provide evidence that the walls in Cloud City were made from "gypsum or plastics", and you still don't understand that blowing 10 cm holes in walls is on par with modern day grenade launchers.

Beacouse you did not adress it. I don't know what Solo's state of shock has to do with strength of Imperial fleet. And we do have another way to determine strength of Imperial fleet; Darkstar did it, although I did not have time (yet).

Two important definitions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_of_speech

1.
a) I fail to see how I evade anything. You, on other hand, constantly evade proof and logic while trying to reshape canon in order to make it fit ICS
b) Mos Eisley is only reference point from canon that we have
2. Oh, you fail logic. Great.
Novelization is aimed at people from Earth, not someone from Coruscant, Bar Jadda Lol, name it. From that follows that author is trying to make novel understandable to people from Earth, by using - guess what? Reference points they can use, which means something from their surroundings.

a) Of course, you have yet to actually provide a single example blatantly contradicting the ICS
b) Oh, so is a backwater small town in Tatooine representative of a quote that was referring to Coruscant? Are you this dense?


There is no example in any official Star Wars book in which the author ever breaks the fourth wall except for stuff like about the author and copyright.

Except that all types of phaser rifles shown in TNG+ series' have at least burst-fire ability, if not full auto

Then why doesn't the Federation use these uber burst fire capabilities?

ROFL won't change fact that you are lying.

This is why sites like stardestroyer.net don't take you serously. The above statement does not do anything to prove your point or provide any evidence supporting it.

And how fast hyperdrive is (canon, please)?

Tens of millions of C.

Frankly, only thing from canon we have gives us 1.5 megaton heavy turbolasers, and I do not rememeber battles lasting for 2 months.

You mean the same turbolasers that can vaporize "small towns" that are in reality larger than New York City?

It is better than any of your responses, beacouse it isn't lie. I would bet that you never provided piece of real evidence in your life. I don't have time to actually take a screenshot and show it to you, but there were no more than 300 flying saucers in senate chamber.

[/quote]

Of course, you can't actually provide evidence to support your accusation of my lying.

[Picard]

And your assumption that the borg would be able to adapt to weapons mid trajectory comes from...what exactly?

Starfleet never tried to engage them from long range, as far as I know (althought both Wolf 359 and Battle of Sector 001 could begin at long range, but we don't know that).

Of course, you will have to provide evidence that the walls in Cloud City were made from "gypsum or plastics", and you still don't understand that blowing 10 cm holes in walls is on par with modern day grenade launchers.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_10H8_Gaw0N0/T ... 0/wall.jpg

Two important definitions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbole
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_of_speech

True. But so was his "from one side of galaxy to another". And if Empire had more than 1000 capital ships (ISD's and SSD's) then he would probably say something else than "thousamd ships". Either way, I will have to make counting of guns at DSI.

a) Of course, you have yet to actually provide a single example blatantly contradicting the ICS

I already did.
1) heavy TL are NOT in gigatons, not even in high megatons. "Vaporize small town", remember?

2) There are no neutronium hulls in use on Imperial ships (assuming standard neutronium, not one "mined from moons", according to EU).
http://picard578.blogspot.com/2010/10/t ... scene.html

3) Sub-kiloton to kiloton guns (those used at SPHAT walkers) were capable of taking down Separatist Munificients in single shots

4) Windows are made from glass

b) Oh, so is a backwater small town in Tatooine representative of a quote that was referring to Coruscant? Are you this dense?

It is only "small town" from canon. And there are NO small towns on Coruscant. Althought writer used US "small town", but either way, we are in low megatons for HTL yield.

Then why doesn't the Federation use these uber burst fire capabilities?

They do. "First Contact", "Nemesis", "DS9"... and even when they fire beams, it is actually automatic fire.

This is why sites like stardestroyer.net don't take you serously. The above statement does not do anything to prove your point or provide any evidence supporting it.

Sites like stardestroyer.net, full of pshychopatic liars?

Tens of millions of C.

Source?

You mean the same turbolasers that can vaporize "small towns" that are in reality larger than New York City?

Except that NO towns in SW canon are even size of Sarajevo.

Of course, you can't actually provide evidence to support your accusation of my lying.

Read above.



And, yes:

ROFL. Clearly you weren't paying attention to the scene, because there were at LEAST several thousand people in the Senate.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_10H8_Gaw0N0/T ... enate1.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_10H8_Gaw0N0/T ... enate2.jpg

Several HUNDRED is more like it.

And as for you asking evidence... I have provided more evidence in this single post than you did since you came here.

[Khas]

You're in no position to call anyone a bad debater, SWST, as you are actually one of the worst one's I've seen in a long time... :)

SWST should debate Jason...

[Kor_Dahar_Master]

Of course, you will have to provide evidence that the walls in Cloud City were made from "gypsum or plastics", and you still don't understand that blowing 10 cm holes in walls is on par with modern day grenade launchers.

A 10cm hole in a wall = modern day grenade launcher?.

Where do you get this absurdity from?, a 10cm hole in a wall can be achieved by very small impacts while a grenade launcher would remove a wall or at the very least leave a considerably larger hole in it.

[Mike DiCenso]

Ten centimeters is just less than four INCHES in diameter. That's not even close to being grenade-level damage. If blasters were of that capability, then Leia's arm would have been completely blown off in RoTJ when she gets shot by the Storm trooper. What see blasters do in RoTS is they can be set to burn things, as the several shots by the blaster Obi-Wan picks up does to General Grievious' internal organs, or the apparent deaths of Luke's uncle Owen and aunt Beru (although that left fully intact skeletons).
-Mike

[Khas]

Actually, I read in the SW Encyclopedia (Book, not Wookiepedia), that the stormtroopers torched Luke's home, which is why we see the burnt Lars corpses.

And I see no one has commented on my idea of SWST debating Jason. >:(

[Mike DiCenso]

To a dark place, that line of thought goes...
-Mike

[Khas]

The collapse of the versus debate?

[The Dude]

Of course, you will have to provide evidence that the walls in Cloud City were made from "gypsum or plastics", and you still don't understand that blowing 10 cm holes in walls is on par with modern day grenade launchers.

A 10cm hole in a wall = modern day grenade launcher?.

Where do you get this absurdity from?, a 10cm hole in a wall can be achieved by very small impacts while a grenade launcher would remove a wall or at the very least leave a considerably larger hole in it.

No, it wouldn't. It depends on the type of wall and type of grenade but you don't see Hollywood type damage from grenades in real life. Something like an RPG or Carl G, with a thermobaric warhead, then yeah.

[Mike DiCenso]

b) Oh, so is a backwater small town in Tatooine representative of a quote that was referring to Coruscant? Are you this dense?

It is only "small town" from canon. And there are NO small towns on Coruscant. Althought writer used US "small town", but either way, we are in low megatons for HTL yield.

Tatooine alone is not the only example people here have been citing for the definition of "small town" for SW. Anyone just looking at every planet seen outside of Coruscant can tell you that they are not even remotely as well-developed as that planet. Utapu's major cities according to Obi-Wan, were all concentrated on one small continent, and while we saw some impressive underground infrastructure, it was nothing even remotely on Coruscant's level. Naboo, another important world in the Galactic Republic, did not have any major developments on it's surface, and Alderaan, from what the movies and EU show us, did not have anything remotely Coruscant-like. And that latter world was a major planet not only in the Republic and Empire, but was an important supplier of arms to the early Rebel Alliance.

Geonosis, same thing. Some fairly developed underground facilities, but little on the surface, and nothing anywhere near Coruscant-scale development.

Raxus as seen clearly in TCW's "Heroes on Both Sides" has some development, but again, nothing even close to Coruscant.

Other people have referenced population numbers for various planets that are far below even our own Real Life Earth's 7 billion.

So the point still stands about the definition of a small town.
-Mike