Impulse vs. Warp

[Lucky]

As far as the E-1701 and E-D, among other ships almost never seeming to run out of fuel, the fact that we heard about almost every other adventure the of the ship heading off to this starbase or that one neatly explains it away since while making a layover, they can simply request for a topping off of reactants.
-Mike

I do not think they need to refuel at starbases or Federation planets very often but they still need to do so now and again, Voyager and the series Enterprise pretty much showed us that.

Voyager was on a short mission when it got blasted across the galaxy so it may not have had a large fuel load compared to what it would have had if it had been going on a long range exploration mission.

It is interesting that in VOY:Demon that it is Deuterium they run out of and not Anti-Deuterium that i would have thought would be harder to find/create. Maybe they create Anti-Deuterium from Deuterium some how.

Isn't there some source that says the UFP can turn matter into anti-matter, and the reverse?

[Cocytus]

We can create antimatter in the form of positrons here in the real world, using high-intensity lasers. Generating antimatter shouldn't be hard for Federation starships.

[Mr. Oragahn]

Making repeated appeals to canon and scientific principles without ever showing how they support your claims is certainly not the way to go.
When asked to establish the evidence, the links, you dismiss the requests by insulting people's intelligence, you call them ignorant of the "canon" and you pretty much dodge everything that way.
Let's just see how you operate. Let me also tell you that if you actually want to maintain a semblence of civil debate, you may want to change your methods radically.

Nope; he asked for the specifics on the exact mechanics of exactly how the energy was converted to matter and anti-matter from the warp-bubble, in order to prove that this is what happens; obviously this is irrelevant, if the canon establishes that it’s already done for something else.
In short, the canon doesn’t explain exactly how it’s done, but they don’t have to; all that matters is the principle, that they show (or state) that they’re capable of doing.
If you can’t figure that out, you’ll never know.

I never said the canon had to explain how it works. That's a strawman.
I asked for proof that the capacity or property you described does exist.
You have not provided this evidence yet. I'm sorry but it looks like we're not talking on the same frequency here.
The only thing canon claims is the existence of a capacity to regenerate antimatter, as vague as it can get, and that's all. Anything else you have claimed thus far is just pure speculation that you treat as fact. It doesn't work that way.

Still waiting for evidence from the canon.

I already gave it: anti-matter replenishment from energy. This requires the ability to convert energy to anti-matter—as I stated about 12 times, it’s the principle behind E=MC^2.
(NOTE: In Star Trek, E=MC^2 is more about the principle of mass-energy conversion, rather than an actual ratio—more on that below).

Citing E=mc² is not an answer. It at best explains in a broadway what should happen in terms of energy calculus, but certainly not proves that the canon supports your claim.
It's like citing physics textbooks as proof of any extravagant claim. I believe it is not necessary for me to you explain to you why this is just not going to work at all.

By your calims, and by saying the first law of Thermodynamics apply here,

We're looking for a logical and substantiated explanation of your claim, not a repeated appeal to physics law like if they automatically made you right without having to show why.

I explained that too: you can’t get energy from nowhere, and you can’t make energy disappear into nowhere.

Oh please. You never explained that, and I already know what goes on with the sources of energy.

It's called ENTROPY, i.e. the ship's subspace "wake;" and it is absorbed into subspace ala the "warp-signature." by creating subspace "ripples" into inertia.

No. What is asked is evidence that the warp-bubble system is not leaking in some way, despite the facts provided here, including lately by Mike and Kor, proving that power is constantly needed.
Adding another pile of complication is not proof.

That was never a question, so it isn’t needed to explain it. Obviously they fill it fast as it leaks, as proven by the fact that they can maintain a stable warp-speed.

What do you mean it never was a question? It's been asked as evidence from the beginning!
And if there is a leak, then obviously it supports the idea that power constantly needs to be provided, which is a departure from your initial idea.
In the end, you're still to provide evidence that the system you describe exists in Star Trek. E=mc² doesn't prove anything.

This is about the only figure you provided. It's actually on page 3 that you give the speed figure for warp 8 that you used: 300 billion meters/second (warp 8).
3 e14 cm/s.
With 10 particles per cubic centimeter, this would actually turn to be 3 e15 particles/second.

Per square centimeter.

I worked with the number of cubic centimeters that would be "drained" of particles at warp 8 during one second.
Somehow I forgot to type the power ^3, as ³. It should have been 3 e14 cm³/s

I also stated that the collection-field could be any size—even billions of square centimeters; if the field was 100 kilometers square (fairly small for a Bussard Ramjet), then this would be 10 billion square centimeters, providing 3E+25 particles/second—i.e. 50 mols of hydrogen/second. And the field could be even bigger.

Of course I'm going to wait for evidence that the fields can be that large and that they're used while being that large, and that they can be that large especially while moving at warp, as they'd have to stick out of the warp bubble.

I don't have to answer it, it's in the canon.

Still waiting for evidence from the canon.

If you still have to ask, you’ll never know. Obviously when the ship’s at warp, it has a full-sized warp-bubble, right?

So when it comes out of warp into normal space, the warp-bubble goes from full-sized, to non-existent in about 2 seconds.

So where does that energy go? You’re failing to account for it— meanwhile I’m stating the obvious fact that that it clearly goes back to matter and antimatter, by simply reversing the process by which they created the bubble in the first place by combining matter and anti-matter—and using the same mechanical process by which they create anti-matter from energy (above).

Those are two different things. Claiming that the ship sucks back the energy spent in creating the bubble is one thing, which is yet to be proven, and don't count on reversion, since it's impossible, unless you cheat physics.
Now, claiming that from this energy, they can recreate matter and antimatter is a whole other thing. As I said, replicators don't allow for that. Why should we believe that you're correct?

That’s canon right there, simply extrapolated to a logical conclusion—i.e. if they can convert energy to ant-matter for replenishment-purposes, then that’s canonical precedent that they can reverse the process; and therefore, they can do it for converting warp-bubble energy to anti-matter as well.

Looks like you're mixing wild speculation with one bit of canon that has always been shy of details.

Where does the Warp Bubble maintinaing energy go during Warp travel, or the increased energy demand for higher speeds go? No answer.

Again: ENTROPY.

It's not a magic word. Where is the proof that the warp-bubble is isolated?

It is magic if you don’t understand it, which you clearly don’t; the word “entropy” would suggest that it’s not isolated.

Entropy doesn't preclude isolation. Isolation precludes the decrease of entropy. Complete, real isolation is also considered untrue.
And if it's not isolated, then your warp bubble's entropy will decrease.
So we see that slinging around the term "entropy" will never begin to make your theory water proof.
It requires something different, something called evidence, and that we're yet to see.
Now, as it gets tiring, I think this will be the last time I'll ask for conclusive proof from you.

Again, as Confucius said: "a fool can ask more questions in ten minutes, than a wise man can answer in ten years."
And you're proving it right here.

You're yet a far distance from the minmum wisdom necessary to have the right to quote Confucius.

I am compared to you, who’s been wrong on every point so far, while I’ve been right—and after:

Now that's some empty claim. Wrong on what? My calcs? Nope.
On the fact that you actually make up stuff? Nope.
Or perhaps I'm wrong on my definition of wrong. Perhaps I should actually read it "right".

the canon states that anti-matter can be replenished by itself. The first law of thermodyamics, meanwhile, is standard high-school physics.

No. Canon only says that they can resplenish antimatter at a certain rate that's not established, and we know that in later Trek that energy is not exactly so easily free to pick and easy to come by.

Where in “later Trek,” has an undamaged ship ever run short on fuel-reserves?

Later Trek has supply stations.
The TM, which you apparently take as canon (I don't) says that the Galaxy-class regeneration systems aren't efficient under normal operational mode.
What about they store lots of antimatter? Some ships had like 5 years long exploration missions, so it follows.
The fact that it's not easy to come by as pressing a button and letting antimatter be generated is in the need for resupply, and that in all likeliness it will cost a lot of energy to produce a bit of antimatter (like said earlier).
Aside from what Mike and Kor already cited, it's quite logical that fuel reserves will dwindle. Only a high regeneration would avoid that.

No idea? It's rather odd that you have no idea about that considering how knowing how much energy they can obtain pretty much defines if your system would even begin to work.
You should actually have a very good idea, some figures to go by. Now, I provided a few above. Let me know if you agree with them or not.

I have no idea, because we know from canon that Star Trek anti-matter packs HELLA more energy than the standard E=MC^2 (e.g. “Obsession” stated that an ounce of Star Trek anti-matter is enough to rip away half of an earth-sized planet’s atmosphere); so it’s possible that they could be getting hella more than the standard amount from fusion as well.

Obsession is the epithome of bad science. Everything about it is wrong. See here.

We also don’t know how much energy-input the ship needs to maintain a constant warp-speed—or to jump to it-- so it’s really irrelevant how much they can get; obviously, it’s enough to get them places.

Well, of course fuel allows them to get *somewhere*, but I thought it was clear that what not the point of the argumentation going on.
We don't know the real power consumption of warp, but it's not important, it's not the question. In fact, you literally admitted that power is constantly needed. You just don't know the exact amount, but we have very clear ideas about the magnitude, and it's nothing low, as evidence earlier in this very thread.

However in TNG "The Icarus Factor," Riker claims that it would take months at high warp to get from the current location of the Enterprise to the Vega-Omicron sector, on the far side of Federation territory; so that gives you some idea that they generally don’t need to stop for fuel—nor have we ever seen a ship doing such in Star Trek with an undamaged ship; so it’s safe to assume that it isn’t done (or more accurately, there’s no canonical evidence to suggest that it is done).

And? It's just a figure. Months of travel for ships charged with enough AM for years long trips is not surprising.
It's possible that years long trips at cruising speeds are reduced to months long runs at high warp.
What is high warp? Is it peak warp for a short distance, or high warp in the context of a long trip?
Does it even mean that the ship could actually complete that trip or was it just Riker simply stating what would be required to get there? Since it's crossing Federation space, why should we believe there would be no resupply at all?