Stormtroopers try to board a Federation Starship

[sonofccn]

Why do you need an air lock?

The room has no direct access to outside space, so the imperials would have to cut straight through the hull.

Your right all those shots of storm troopers being shot by bullets, there are too many to count really.

Please where has a Storm trooper been shot by bullets?

Why do people want to believe that SW armour has no use what so ever?

I wouldn't say no use what so ever. It has a handy radio/eyeprotection, gives some protection from scrapnel. Just that it's designed more like an uniform then a real piece of protective equipment.

[Darth Tanner]

Its got a door for gods sake, doors open. Even then its only glass/transparent aluminium
Why cant they blow holes in the hull, ST hull isn't very strong or thick. A simple collision with another ship rips the ship open like a can.


I was being sarcastic.

[sonofccn]

Why cant they blow holes in the hull

They could, just takes time and planning. I'm not sure it would be worth the time and effort.

ST hull isn't very strong or thick

They are roughly on par with an imperial star destroyer in hull strenght give or take a little.
Ref. the Oddessy ramming and the asteriod hit from TESB.

A simple collision with another ship rips the ship open like a can.

Likewise an ISD collision with another ISD would be bad.

I was being sarcastic

Oh. May I suggest adding :) or something so I know?

[Darth Tanner]

They could, just takes time and planning. I'm not sure it would be worth the time and effort.

It would be worth it as its the best way to get about a ship with such limited access routes. Also it effectivly kills anyone who could offer resistance.

They are roughly on par with an imperial star destroyer in hull strenght give or take a little.
Ref. the Oddessy ramming and the asteriod hit from TESB.

Fed ships are vulnerable to ramming by smaller ships, they rip straight into the hull and destroy the entire ship.
What evidence do you have that SD armour is so weak?
That asteroid hit was sean to do no damage, it cuts away to the Executor bridge to show a captain falling over on the holo projector afterwards.
Also an asteroid that size of solid iron has a lot more force behind it.

Likewise an ISD collision with another ISD would be bad.

We see two SDs hit each other when chasing the falcon, all that happens is they great against each other although it wasnt a direct impact so much of the force was lost.

Also ramming isnt very effective as a tactic in SW (unless your bridge has a big window for A-wings to come in) In the corellian crisis specially designed pirate ram ships filled with heavy metal to increase impact mass did littler relative damage to a Bakuran Destroyer, taking three direct hits to cripple it.

[sonofccn]

It would be worth it as its the best way to get about a ship with such limited access routes. Also it effectivly kills anyone who could offer resistance.

Maybe, but the feds have forcefields and spacesuits, so the fight wouldn't be over.

Fed ships are vulnerable to ramming by smaller ships, they rip straight into the hull and destroy the entire ship.

Yep, small,fast ships with M/AM reactors onboard.

That asteroid hit was sean to do no damage, it cuts away to the Executor bridge to show a captain falling over on the holo projector afterwards.

The novel stating the ship exploded, the captian dropping dead, etc. The Ship was destroyed.

Also an asteroid that size of solid iron has a lot more force behind it.

Then a self propelled starship with a votital mix on board?

We see two SDs hit each other when chasing the falcon, all that happens is they great against each other although it wasnt a direct impact so much of the force was lost.

Which in itself is nice example of Imperial reaction time, point is an impact against another vessel would be just as lethal to them as it is to a federation vessel.

Also ramming isnt very effective as a tactic in SW

We know via the ROTJ novel that ramming was done by crippled vessels as a last ditch effort, ie niether ship was expected to survive.

Conversly in startrek ramming is generaly strategic rather then tatical. The Oddessy was crippled and could have easily been finished off conventially, but the founders wanted to make a point.

[Darth Tanner]

Maybe, but the feds have forcefields and spacesuits, so the fight wouldn't be over.

force fields that drain energy (since ion cannons would have knowcked the reactors off line)

Also it takes time for the ship to get them in place anyway, the crew being sucked out of the bridge in Nemesis for example.

Yep, small,fast ships with M/AM reactors onboard.

SW ships have much higher reactor yields, a small imperial gunboat ramming would be more deadly than a warp core

The novel stating the ship exploded, the captian dropping dead, etc. The Ship was destroyed.

I'll give you that as it is implied anyway, I've not read the novel for EsB, probably just didnt have the special effects budget for modeling the explosion.

Which in itself is nice example of Imperial reaction time, point is an impact against another vessel would be just as lethal to them as it is to a federation vessel.

and yet you still have failed to provide evidence imperial hulls are weak enough for feds to penetrate, even with ramming.

We know via the ROTJ novel that ramming was done by crippled vessels as a last ditch effort, ie niether ship was expected to survive.

Conversly in startrek ramming is generaly strategic rather then tatical. The Oddessy was crippled and could have easily been finished off conventially, but the founders wanted to make a point.

At the end of the dominion war Jem ships rammed many alliance ships regardless just out of desire to cause casualties.

SW ships may use it as a last resort but that would likely be becaue they have lost their main firepower because of combat damage.

[sonofccn]

force fields that drain energy (since ion cannons would have knowcked the reactors off line)

Actually ion cannos are not garrenteed to work, as you mentioned Star trek employs plasma conduits , not wires.

SW ships have much higher reactor yields, a small imperial gunboat ramming would be more deadly than a warp core

Highly doubtful. They relay on fusion reactors which is generaly inferior to a M/Am reactor. Much safer however.

and yet you still have failed to provide evidence imperial hulls are weak enough for feds to penetrate, even with ramming.

Which has more power, a random asteriod or the Enterprise-D at full impusle and exploding reactor?

At the end of the dominion war Jem ships rammed many alliance ships regardless just out of desire to cause casualties.

Could you post relevent episodes? I'm not up on DS9 episodes, but off hand it could be a way of showing just how dedicated to the cause the founders were, and that they would never surrender.

SW ships may use it as a last resort but that would likely be becaue they have lost their main firepower because of combat damage.

Possible, but compare that to nemises where the ENT-E largly survived the ramming,bear in mind the ship was a smoking wreck before hand and the Schimitar was largely undamaged.

Also it takes time for the ship to get them in place anyway, the crew being sucked out of the bridge in Nemesis for example

They lost a single crewmember who was sitting right smack dab infront of the gaping hole. That is a hell of a lot better then what a blast door would do.

[Darth Tanner]

Actually ion cannos are not garrenteed to work, as you mentioned Star trek employs plasma conduits , not wires.

Actually we don't know how Emp transfer power, I was using the wires as a comparison to plasma conduits in relation to safety, the only example of SW power distribution we see is the tractor beam coupling in ANH

There is no reason to belive ion cannons wouldn't work on Fed tech.

Highly doubtful. They relay on fusion reactors which is generaly inferior to a M/Am reactor. Much safer however.

Star Destoryers use hyper matter reactors that yield vast amounts of energy.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... ower2.html

Feds use fussion reactors, the antimatter is for the warp drive

Which has more power, a random asteriod or the Enterprise-D at full impusle and exploding reactor?

Could you post relevent episodes? I'm not up on DS9 episodes, but off hand it could be a way of showing just how dedicated to the cause the founders were, and that they would never surrender.

The end of the war, I think its called What you leave behind. or it may be the one before this as there was limited fighting in the last episode due to the dominion discovering love.

Possible, but compare that to nemises where the ENT-E largly survived the ramming,bear in mind the ship was a smoking wreck before hand and the Schimitar was largely undamaged.

Both ships were practically stationary, also the Ent was running on emrgancy power and had little acceleration, a good example of poor ST agility though as the Scimitar was unable to get out of the way

Oh and as a result of the hit the Scimitar lost all of its weapons and was forced to rely on its green light uber weapon of doom.

They lost a single crewmember who was sitting right smack dab infront of the gaping hole. That is a hell of a lot better then what a blast door would do.

hmm ok, but they were sat down and had things to hold on to
why would a blast door do a poorer job?

oh and SW has forcefields too

[sonofccn]

Actually we don't know how Emp transfer power

Smoking and sparking wires in the MF, Refrences to hotwiring stuff. Wires are present in the Empire.

There is no reason to belive ion cannons wouldn't work on Fed tech.

Well this isn't my field and all I know is what i've heard second or third hand so I'll let this point drop.

Star Destoryers use hyper matter reactors that yield vast amounts of energy.

Star wars ships use fusion via the ROTS novel and the ANH novel. If you like I can post the relevent quotes.

Also hyper matter fusion is a product of the vs culture and is not present in any Eu book as far a I know, not even the ICS.

The end of the war, I think its called What you leave behind. or it may be the one before this as there was limited fighting in the last episode due to the dominion discovering love.

I rent in something this week and give it a look see, so until then truce on this point?

Both ships were practically stationary

Afterwards yes, but before that the badly damaged Enterprise managed half-way decent speed.

a good example of poor ST agility though as the Scimitar was unable to get out of the way

True, but a good show of ST agility was teh scimitar everywhere else in the movie.

Oh and as a result of the hit the Scimitar lost all of its weapons and was forced to rely on its green light uber weapon of doom.

True, but i was merely showing that a crippled, doomed vessel, like the rebel ships we were talking about, did a kamakize attack and lived.

hmm ok, but they were sat down and had things to hold on to

Between the surprise of the viewscreen bein vaporised and the sudden suction of space, that a guy didn't hang on tight enough isn't that bad.

why would a blast door do a poorer job?

Slower. Harder to position to cover odd vunerable spots. I doubt a Stardestroyer bridge has a blast door come done and cover thier viewscreen.

oh and SW has forcefields too

True but they don't seem as main stream as Feds forcefields, blast doors are still the main blocking item.

[Darth Tanner]

Smoking and sparking wires in the MF, Refrences to hotwiring stuff. Wires are present in the Empire.

Ok i'd forgot about them, I still dont see why plasma conduits would render your electronics immune to ion cannons.

Star wars ships use fusion via the ROTS novel and the ANH novel. If you like I can post the relevent quotes.

Also hyper matter fusion is a product of the vs culture and is not present in any Eu book as far a I know, not even the ICS.

again, http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... ower2.html

the name does not define what it is/how much it produces

fussion is just a means of combining, many references to imperial fussion reactors say they use heavy metal fuel slugs, which is not possible with nuclear fussion. Also some references speak of black holes (like the romulans use)

entering hyperspace & firing the death star consumes massive amounts of energy that are not possible with just plain old fussion.

I rent in something this week and give it a look see, so until then truce on this point?

Its been a while since i've seen DS9 but the part where the dominion starts ramming like crazy has always been one of my favourites. The amount of detail is impressive, its just a pity they screwed up the final episode by having a peaceful resolution )-:

Afterwards yes, but before that the badly damaged Enterprise managed half-way decent speed.

No it didnt, it was only the stupidity/plot requirment of shinzon pulling to port instead of reversing that allowed them to hit, they had built up very little inertia by the time they hit and there is no reason why they penetrated the hull instead of just pushing the scimitar back except for weak armour.

True, but a good show of ST agility was teh scimitar everywhere else in the movie.

It was going fast in relation to the Ent which lost its main engines fast but im not sure if it was performing any quick turns or the like.

True but they don't seem as main stream as Feds forcefields, blast doors are still the main blocking item.

forcefields are just as prevalent as in ST, hangers have them to keep atmosphere in, gun emplacemnets have them, even the silly practice of having emmitters in corridors to stop boarders (capturing Anakin & Obi)

[sonofccn]

I still dont see why plasma conduits would render your electronics immune to ion cannons.

Since I dropped the point it's not all that important, but from what I could understand the theroy goes that since plasma conduits already are filled with ions, putting more would be harmless. Like drowning a dolphin in water I believe the anayloge was.

again, http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tec ... ower2.html

the name does not define what it is/how much it produces

Again both quotes refrence the sun, now what kind of fusion does the sun employ? Nuclear fusion.

entering hyperspace & firing the death star consumes massive amounts of energy that are not possible with just plain old fussion.

Both are unkown alien technolagies and we don't know how much power is required.

they had built up very little inertia by the time they hit and there is no reason why they penetrated the hull instead of just pushing the scimitar back except for weak armour.

http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWstnem.html Scroll down a bit and see an evulation of the incident in quesiton.

It was going fast in relation to the Ent which lost its main engines fast but im not sure if it was performing any quick turns or the like.

It was flying like a bat out of hell, in stark contrast to the ramming incident.

forcefields are just as prevalent as in ST, hangers have them to keep atmosphere in, gun emplacemnets have them

Except for a magnetic field I have never seen forcefield tech anywhere in star wars until ROTS.

even the silly practice of having emmitters in corridors to stop boarders (capturing Anakin & Obi)

That was a specily designed trap in a larger trap designed and orchtrated by Palp. It is the only time we see it, and it would have been a lot of use on the Deathstar back in ANH. Instead we see blast doors slowly lumbering down.

[Darth Tanner]

Both are unkown alien technolagies and we don't know how much power is required.

Although sci fi its hardly alien, they are human afterall.

That was a specily designed trap in a larger trap designed and orchtrated by Palp. It is the only time we see it, and it would have been a lot of use on the Deathstar back in ANH. Instead we see blast doors slowly lumbering down.

In ANH they were allowed to escape so that they could follow them to the rebel base, trapping them wouldnt do much good would it. Also Anakin and Obi 1 dont react as if having forcefields traps in the corridor was rare and unusual, they were just shocked they fell into such an obvious trap.

Also why are blast doors worse than force fields, solid metal is stronger than an electomagnetic field and isnt as vulnerable to being blasted through or turning off when the power gos out.

[sonofccn]

In ANH they were allowed to escape so that they could follow them to the rebel base

Then why didn't the Stormtroopers complain about it? They shouldn't have been in on the plan, or why didn't Han and co mention that it was lucky no one turned on a forcefield to stop them.

Also Anakin and Obi 1 dont react as if having forcefields traps in the corridor was rare and unusual, they were just shocked they fell into such an obvious trap.

Oh it's the oldest trick in the book, that doesn't change the fact that it was a trap, not a ship wide defense system ala forcefields in startrek.

[Darth Tanner]

Oh it's the oldest trick in the book, that doesn't change the fact that it was a trap, not a ship wide defense system ala forcefields in startrek.

A ship wide defence system that is rarely actually used, neither the Reman boarders, Klingons on DS9 or any other invasion force has been stopped by forcefields

Then why didn't the Stormtroopers complain about it? They shouldn't have been in on the plan, or why didn't Han and co mention that it was lucky no one turned on a forcefield to stop them.

Because the stormies were in on the plan or they would have shot them! Leia did know that they had been let go but perhaps they simply dont have forcefield projectors everywhere like ST ships do, waste of money probably to have them on every deck, especially on a 900 km mobile space station

[Jedi Master Spock]

A ship wide defence system that is rarely actually used, neither the Reman boarders, Klingons on DS9 or any other invasion force has been stopped by forcefields

Actually, you'd be surprised how often the ship wide system has been seen in use, from "Rascals" to "Brothers." In the very few opportunities the series has had to demonstrate the use of internal force fields, it has done so quite capably. "Brothers" demonstrates exactly how extensive the system is on-board a ship - in no other episode did the need arise.

The Klingons on DS9 were also sectioned off during their boarding action when O'Brien restored power; internal forcefields, seen only briefly once in "The Way of the Warrior" that I am aware of, were clearly in action there as well.

The only reason why we don't see it in use more often is because Trek opponents have a technology that renders internal sectioning of a ship obsolete in normal boarding actions: The transporter.