Lucky wrote:
modest |ˈmädəst|
adjective
1 unassuming or moderate in the estimation of one's abilities or achievements : he was a very modest man, refusing to take any credit for the enterprise.
2 (of an amount, rate, or level of something) relatively moderate, limited, or small : drink modest amounts of alcohol | employment growth was relatively modest.
• (of a place in which one lives, eats, or stays) not excessively large, elaborate, or expensive : we had bought a modest house.
3 (of a woman) dressing or behaving so as to avoid impropriety or indecency, esp. to avoid attracting sexual attention.
• (of clothing) not revealing or emphasizing the figure : modest dress means that hemlines must be below the knee.
While the word modest does not give any hard numbers it certainly narrows down how large the GFFA can be. It certainly rules out an extremely large galaxy that is 120,000 light years in diameter.
Except that the Essential Atlas gives a figure of 120,000 LY in diameter, written with a 3rd person omniscient perspective, which trumps a 3rd person limited perspective in terms of reliability.
Ah, so you expect me to look through 7 pages of a thread to find these "pretty pictures" of yours?
We can't know for certain how long they stayed on Tatooine, but it was about threeish days at minimum, but personally would not think they were there more then a week.
Right, and a Federation force sub would involves years or decades just to get to Tatooine.
That calls those uber fast hyperdrive speeds.
Such hyperdrive speeds are canon, and having a few planets being close together does absolutely nothing to refute it.
Where is that claim made?
...The Essential Atlas.
StarWarsStarTrek wrote:
Well try to find the quote when you get home. I have never seen what you are talked about before.
Ah. Even as an absolute upper limit, it would have no more than a few years of construction time, which is the upper limit for the construction time of the Death Star 2.
It's from the Episode one script. Check the Orders of magnitude page on Darkstar's site.
What; are you claiming that the Jedi Temple had less than 200 Jedi? Where is your evidence.
"In the time of Qui-Gon Jinn, ten thousand Jedi Knights in service to the Republic carried on the struggle each day of their lives in a hundred thousand different worlds spread across a galaxy so vast it could barely be comprehended."
I did not deny the 10,000 Jedi claim. What I was saying was that the Jedi Temple alone had more than 200 Jedi.
When dealing with the Borg it may be since the topic was the Borg. An energy/particle beam will become weaker the farther it travels, and the closer to the borg ship the less things it can do to defend against the attack.
Yet photon torpedos do not suffer from that problem...but the Federation still fired them at point blank range, despite supposedly having >100,000 KM effective ranges. The only possible explanation is that the Federation ships have crap range.
So you think Star fleet can't measure distances, or the person speaking can't properly read the display every single time?
To be honest, that wouldn't surprise me, given that Federation characters make mistakes like every episode.
The ranges are taken from dialog, and the ranges are fairly consistent from TOS, TNG, DS9, and surprisingly Voyager. Dialog in this case seems to be more trust worthy then visuals which tend to be eye candy, and messed in some way.
ROFL what? Did you just claim that visuals are less reliable than visuals? Thank you for admitting that you are clearly desperate to win this debate. You try to refute the ICS by using visuals, and then turn around and claim that dialog trumps visuals. By that account, the 200 gigaton claim > all TCW visuals. Star Wars wins.
Most trek combat takes place in the tens of thousands of km, but there are examples in the hundreds of thousands..
Reversed; most trek combat takes place within a few KMs or even within a few hundred meters, but there are examples over over 10 kms.
Reversed;
Within one kilometer is considered dangerous to both ships as shown in The Die Is Cast.
And yet Federation commander regularly go within 1 km ranges; surprise, Federation commanders are morons!
Enlighten me as to why ground combat as it happens in Star Wars is not a sign of libations of their weapons?
Enlighten as to how they are. It's not my job to prove a negative, especially not to one as ridiculous as yours. I suppose that the United States' tanks are a sign of their limited air combat, eh?
If I control the sky and orbit why do I send down an army to attack targets that are unshielded and out in the open by themselves?
To occupy territory, smart one? This is basic military warfare.
From what I recall from the series you just need the energy, but having the matter to start with makes it cheaper and easier. You're turning the base matter into energy anyway remember.
And where does that energy come from? Magic?
Aside from needing to man the galaxy class ships,
Ah, more examples of the Federation's vastly smaller scale.
and possibly not needing them?
ROFL what? So during the dominion war and the various borg invasions they didn't need more galaxy class ships?
We never real see how Star Fleet builds ship as I recall,
The TM and the new Star Trek movie suggest that they build them conventionally, and not using magi-tech replicators.
and in DS9 they were producing large numbers of them.
"large" amounts that are absolutely nothing compared to the industrial capability of Star Wars.
Why didn't an insane miner with only his mining ship and insane crew create a substance that is extremely exotic, dangerous, and seems to need special tools to make more? Among the many reasons he did not know how.
Then how did he get the red matter at all?
Replicators can make almost anything from what we see in the series, but there are limits. I said just about anything.
"just about anything" means basic materials. It does not in any way counter the huge industrial might of Star Wars.
Details, please.
I would not be surprised if Star Wars and Star Trek can also exceed the limits of real world fusion as well. Fictional universes are not limited by what is possible in the real world remember.
As in fusion, both Star Wars and Star Trek probably use some exotic form of fusion that we do not know about.
No I am saying the UFP easily creates anti-matter, and thinks nothing of letting teenagers use it in high school science projects.They also seem to have an easy way to turn normal matter into anti-matter as shown in the "Dooms Day Machine".
And yet they need matter to annihilate the anti-matter with to get energy. Therefore, they still need matter to get the energy, and thus your claim about them not needing matter is moot.
Please elaborate.
They have never needed to, but never lost the capability.
Nice goalpost move, because you originally claimed that they had large supplies of them.
A plot point in the Sun Crusher's story line is that they attempt to destroy it with the prototype death star.
At the end of ep3 they skip making the prototype, and go straight to the death star as seen finished in ep4.
Really? And how do you know that the Death Star shown wasn't the prototype?
If there was no death star prototype then is any story line relating to the Death star prototype canon?
While Genisis derivative technologies are only implied to be used for terraforming, star busting, and wiping out all life on a planet is flavor of the day stuff. We've gone over this already.
Do you seriously not understand the possibilities of such a device? Obviously the Federation is either too stupid to understand it or can't produce it. Make your pick.
Oh, and THEY NEVER MASS PRODUCED THE STAR BUSTERS!
It is a hobby that involves "what if scenarios". There likely would not be a meeting between the two galaxies until after the UFP has started building purpose built time ships.
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Timeship
Then why did you make such a stupid evasion move that the war wouldn't even happen?
Would they have? I don't see why the UFP would wipe them out.
Eh, because they're a threat to their existence?
Such prime directives are basically always violated when the fate of the Federation calls for it, which means that time travel spam is not an option for the Federation.
Given how perfectly things go for the UFP it's almost like someone is stacking the deck in the UFPs favor somehow. Unseen time travelers would account for this, and we have seen a few of them.
Ok, thanks for showing that you have no idea what you're talking about.
You'll have to give examples of what you mean the borg has poor computer security. The UFP had the help of a Borg in both "Best of both worlds II" and "I, Borg", and we have no real world equivalents to a neurolytic pathogen(which is not a computer program).
Ah, more double standards. You want me to show examples of good Star Wars security, yet refuse to give examples of borg computer security being good. Instead, you put the burden of proof on me to prove the positive of one side and a negative on another. If you want me to prove that the borg have poor computer security, you have to prove that Star Wars has poor computer security, you hypocrite.
Any old computer can be plugged into a port, and take over a ship, access blue prints, and such in Star Wars.
Thanks for showing that you have no idea as to what you're talking about. You claim that there are invisible time travelers helping the Federation without us viewers ever knowing, that having a ground army shows inferior space forces, and make huge double standards on burden of proof.
Lucky, you're being completely dishonest with debating. Such hypocrisy is not good form, and it's not polite either. It's arguably even worse than blunt insults, just a lot more subtle. If you want me to prove good Star Wars security, don't turn around and deny that you have to prove the same for your side, or change your mind and suddenly want me to prove a negative for you side. It's not honest.
Your claim that visuals are trumped by dialog is more proof of your dishonesty, because in other debates you've tried to refute dialog with visuals.