Klingon invasion of Armageddon

[GStone]

Klingons first have to get past the Imperial fleet in the area which will include any Inquisitional, Space Marine, and Rogue Trader ships currently in the system. Past the orbital fortresses. Past the surface defenses, defense lasers, missle silos and ground based small craft bases. Land the klingoin troops.

Klingon ships have been seen to be nimble at sublight and can warp strafe, so that can provide some protection. The question becomes how quick can the missle/weapon emissions of IoM weapons travel in real space?

Next problem, how many troops are you capable of handling and landing? Using BOPs? Each one you use is one less to fight enemy ships. Vorchas, K'T' Ingas ? Drop shields to land troops...pity if a weapoin hits them in the meantime.

I can see an attempt at beaming troops down, but if it becomes too costly, there is the choice of causing a plasma reaction in the atmo to kill the life on the planet.

Last but not least the logistics of the Klingons, troops will need food, potable water, ammunition, replacement parts, medical supplies.

Replicators can take care of what isn't replicable, which is most of it. What wouldn't be is probably some types of medical supplies.

[Roondar]

Last but not least the logistics of the Klingons, troops will need food, potable water, ammunition, replacement parts, medical supplies.

Replicators can take care of what isn't replicable, which is most of it. What wouldn't be is probably some types of medical supplies.

I think Typhonis was refering to the troops on the surface. Naturally supplies could be beamed down or made ahead of time, but the average Klingon warrior isn't seen walking about with a personal replicator ;)

[GStone]

I know, ground troops. :-P

If they beam down long time equipment, like power packs for rifles, hoppers, etc., a replicator can be beamed down, even if it isn't a large one.

[Typhonis]

When have they shown warp straffing in TNG? That could have been used against DS9 many times but wasn`. The Klingon ships werent even mopving that fast in the fight with the station.


You have to set it off in the atmosphere first and what if it fails? Or do you want to push the Imperium to counter this act with Exterminatus attacks against Klingon worlds?

[GStone]

When have they shown warp straffing in TNG?

Not TNG. TOS: Elaan of Troyius.

That could have been used against DS9 many times but wasn`. The Klingon ships werent even mopving that fast in the fight with the station.

The point was to take the station. They didn't know that DS9 had gotten the upgraded weapons. With the size of their fleet, there was no reason to think DS9 could do the damage it ended up doing.

You have to set it off in the atmosphere first and what if it fails?

What if it does? There's the option of warp strafing, heading into the atmo and strafing that way or just blowing up the star to take out the planet. That one might not be ideal, but it's something that's available.

Or do you want to push the Imperium to counter this act with Exterminatus attacks against Klingon worlds?

And if they do that, the rest of the Empire is coming in.

[Typhonis]

There has not been a case of warp strafing used in TNG< DS9 or Voy. Yes I do know it wqas used i9n the TOS but it hasn`t been used since. Much like the photon mortar.

So what will be fed into said replicator? What about parts and materials that cannot be replicated?

Blowing up the star ,great , now you can`t use the planet and the Orks were trying to conquer it. So that is an auto fail on the Klingons part.

A;lso according to the OP the entire Klingon Empire is attacking.

[GStone]

There has not been a case of warp strafing used in TNG< DS9 or Voy. Yes I do know it wqas used i9n the TOS but it hasn`t been used since. Much like the photon mortar.

So? Where's the proof they're incapable of using it in the modern day? The same underlying technology exists: torpedos, warp engines, warp sustainers.

So what will be fed into said replicator? What about parts and materials that cannot be replicated?

For raw material you mean? Anything can be converted into the raw material per Year of Hell. The main concern would be power requirements, however it's powered.

Blowing up the star ,great , now you can`t use the planet and the Orks were trying to conquer it. So that is an auto fail on the Klingons part.

Maybe, but the orks didn't win either.

[Typhonis]

So? Where's the proof they're incapable of using it in the modern day? The same underlying technology exists: torpedos, warp engines, warp sustainers.

The fact that not once in TNG, DS9 or VOY they bothered to use it? Also define warp straffing. What ios it supposed to allow you to do?

For raw material you mean? Anything can be converted into the raw material per Year of Hell. The main concern would be power requirements, however it's powered.

And the stuff that can`t be replicated? Also these nice power sources ? Gee where was the replicators on AR588 or did Sisko not think to bring some top help resupply the ground troops there?

Maybe, but the orks didn't win either.

No they didnt. It wasn`t a loss either as more and more orks are going to Armageddon to fight.

[GStone]

The fact that not once in TNG, DS9 or VOY they bothered to use it?

We haven't heard a peep about the info from the cytherians the Federation got after The Nth Degree in TNG. Are we supposed to assume they lost the data?

Also define warp straffing. What ios it supposed to allow you to do?

Travel at warp speed and hit a STL moving or relatively stationary object with weapons, presumably just a torpedo. However, energy weapons are unknown, though we have seen a transporter beam get someone, while the ship was at warp, so the potential of energy weapons doing it is up in the air.

And the stuff that can`t be replicated?

It'd be beamed down with the rest of the equipment.

Also these nice power sources ?

What about them? They're probably fusion.

Gee where was the replicators on AR588 or did Sisko not think to bring some top help resupply the ground troops there?

Food replicators and medical supplies were dropped off. Sisko said Starfleet was spread thin through the system. All they were to do was drop off supplies, not rotate troops.

No they didnt. It wasn`t a loss either as more and more orks are going to Armageddon to fight.

If the point is to get the planet, they're denied victory with the planet blown up.

[WolfRitter]

Would you be satisfied by beaming several hundred people off a ship?

Using a single ship through active jamming.

You should be satisfied by the fact that handphasers regularly disintegrate humanoids and show some of their most energetic effects against metal and rock.

False, they disintegrate nothing and never have been shown to do so, rather they make it go away through an unknown chain-reaction.

[Roondar]

False, they disintegrate nothing and never have been shown to do so, rather they make it go away through an unknown chain-reaction.

False, the exact mechanisms of a phaserbeam are unknown. It need not be a chain-reaction.

[Flashman]

And yet they have not progressed past crude WW1 style trench warfare, which would be at a severe tactical disadvantage against Klingon units beaming down behind their static lines. An enemy behind your lines has always been devastating and with these kinds of inflexible formations, it would turn into a slaughter.

Firstly, it depends entirely on the regiment how the Imperial Guard fights - a Narmenian Armoured Rgt. would fight entirely differently to the Tallarn Desert Raiders, who in turn fight entirely differently to Elysian Drop Troops or Harakoni Warhawks (for the latter two, think the modern day Parachute Regiment/101st and 82nd Airborne Divisions on steroids).

Second, and as an additional point to the above, 'inflexible' is entirely the wrong word to use in describing the Imperium's fighting capabilities. It is fully within their capabilities to fight a mobile battle in the style of Kursk, Op. Bagration, or Desert Storm, if the opportunity is presented to do so. If, for example, the objective is to dislodge an enemy force from a city or another fortified position, and they are disinclined to come out and fight a mobile engagement, well, you're going to have to go get them out of there, aren't you?

Thirdly, relevant to the idea of teleporting troops in behind the main lines, that's the kind of thing the units tasked with guarding the rear areas are meant to defend against in the first place, and in difficult areas it may be a very large number of troops tasked to do this; for instance, the vast majority of the French Army during the Peninsula War was tied down guarding their rear areas from Spanish partisans. That's leaving aside units which have been rotated out of action for various reasons.

In summation, I do not think it a wise course of action to try what you are suggesting. Even the very worst example of rear-line Imperium troops observed, the Algorathi Janissaries, would cut a Klingon raiding party to bloody shreds.

40K from my wiki-ing (What is the right way to spell that anyway?) doesn't have prevalent, 100% reliable transporter systems. Which means that their usage in general will prove to be quite a psychological shock. Imagine scores of warriors appearing from nowhere and cutting down your compatriots with ease. It would be demoralizing to the extreme.

No, it wouldn't. The Imperial Guard have faced armies of psychotic cultists with a penchant for horrific rituals, corrupted Space Marines, and creatures spawned from a dimension which is pretty close to Hell itself, some of which project fear-inducing auras, and they've stood their ground. I do not think a bunch of ridge-browed idiots that get cut to ribbons by line-of-communications troops are going to have the same effect.

[Opecoiler]

[
Firstly, it depends entirely on the regiment how the Imperial Guard fights - a Narmenian Armoured Rgt. would fight entirely differently to the Tallarn Desert Raiders, who in turn fight entirely differently to Elysian Drop Troops or Harakoni Warhawks (for the latter two, think the modern day Parachute Regiment/101st and 82nd Airborne Divisions on steroids).

Second, and as an additional point to the above, 'inflexible' is entirely the wrong word to use in describing the Imperium's fighting capabilities. It is fully within their capabilities to fight a mobile battle in the style of Kursk, Op. Bagration, or Desert Storm, if the opportunity is presented to do so. If, for example, the objective is to dislodge an enemy force from a city or another fortified position, and they are disinclined to come out and fight a mobile engagement, well, you're going to have to go get them out of there, aren't you?

This is especially important as the native regiments of Armageddon are some of the most mechanized and mobile in the whole Imperium, with large quantities of tanks, APCs, and SPGs.

Living on a world with such heavy industry has its advantages.

[WolfRitter]

False, they disintegrate nothing and never have been shown to do so, rather they make it go away through an unknown chain-reaction.

False, the exact mechanisms of a phaserbeam are unknown. It need not be a chain-reaction.

You got two choices here, it's either DET or some chain reaction, there is no third option, and unlike a lasgun, we've never seen actual vapour from a phaser.

No, it wouldn't. The Imperial Guard have faced armies of psychotic cultists with a penchant for horrific rituals, corrupted Space Marines, and creatures spawned from a dimension which is pretty close to Hell itself, some of which project fear-inducing auras, and they've stood their ground. I do not think a bunch of ridge-browed idiots that get cut to ribbons by line-of-communications troops are going to have the same effect.

Okay, now that you've told them about the bog standard IG, tell them about the Death Korps. :p

[Praeothmin]

and unlike a lasgun, we've never seen actual vapour from a phaser.

False, we have seen vapour many times after Phaser hits in TNG, DS9 and Voyager.
From TNG's 'The Vengeance Factor'. In this episode our heroes are hiding behind a pile of "nuranium" scrap metal during a firefight with some outlaws. The following dialogue is heard :

Riker : 'Data, tell me about nuranium. It vaporises at?'
Data : 'Two thousand three hundred and fourteen degrees sir. Of course, nuranium carbi-'
Riker : 'Thank you Data.'
Geordi : 'Setting seven ought to do it.'


Worf then fires to distract the outlaws and Geordi, Riker and Data fire into the metal. After approximately two seconds a large amount of white gas begins to be released, and our heroes use this to lay an ambush for the outlaws.
(Preceding lines found on DITL, in the Phasers entry of the "Articles" section)

In DS9, we see Sisko fire a Phaser at a bulkhead, and we clearly see vapour coming from the bulkhead as it gets
vaporized.

There are many more examples, but those are to ones that illustrate most clearly IMO.